Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 72

It seems jeff hawkings original dream for the springboard was for there to be cheap way to get a fast connection and low bulk for specific devices to plug into a palm top device. his first idea of course being a cell phone. Wow, great idea, but it seems its not as great as we all had hoped. we all love at least one of the upcoming springboards, or the ones that are already out, but THE PRICE. i bet none of us expected to be paying almost two hundred dollars for a radio when we could get one the size of our thumb for $10. or the great mp3 player (which yes, will be nice) that will cost about $200. i thought the mp3 player would be great, but im paying two hundred dollars for less. they say that it is more, but it really isnt. i already have the screen for it. when i thought of the mp3 player module i thought that because i have the visor i would save money. i could get functions specifically for the visor but it wouldnt cost more. i guess i was mistaken.
well, i do see some modules that should meet our demands. specifically the gps modules. but, it seems the majority of modules are overpriced. i saw in a post about two months ago that someone said that they had to be expensive or they wouldnt make money. well, then maybe it wasnt a good idea to make it. i love the springboard, i love the springboard ideas, i love the options and price of the visor, but i just can't stand the springboard prices. i also posted this to see other peoples opinions and start a new topic. the others are getting rather dry.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Some of the modules are pricey, but they also offer more bang for the buck. The MiniJam MP3 player from Innogear also lets you voice record and store data on those Multimedia cards (MMC). The 8MB Flash module is $80, so the price is very attractive considering you are only limited by the #MB of your MMC.


When I first read about the GeoDiscovery I had sticker shock, but if you look at that ad from this news item you will find that it doesn't just tell you where you are.


I do, however, think that any module going for mass-market appeal cannot sell the module for more than the price of the Visor itself. GPS is very specialized technology that I can see costing quite a bit, but one-trick ponies like the Backup module are going to have to be low-cost.


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James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

[This message has been edited by JHromadka (edited 05-24-2000).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 42

I wholly agree with your statement. One of the reasons I was convinced to buy a Visor was the springboard and promise of "inexpensive" add-ons. But instead what we are getting are springboards that are approaching or exceeding the cost of a Visor Deluxe itself and which offer less capabilities than comparable priced stand-a-lone products. Examples of these are the mp3 players, the Eyemodule, and the CUE radio springboards.

To take the Eyemodule as example. It costs more than some 480x640 cameras and has less resolution at 240x320. At $140 the Eye Module, in my opinion, is grossly over priced for what you get. Now if its price was more like $50-$70 I would buy it in a heart beat, because the price/performance is comparable to stand-a-lone alternatives.

The other thing that bugs me is that all of these devices require power. How many packs of AAA batteries am I going to have to carry with me to accomadate using all of these spring boards. How long will the Visor's batteries last (not counting the spring board device's batteries, if they have them) if I'm playing an mp3 player, or radio spring board for hours at a time. In hindsight they should have equiped the Visor with an AC adapter jack so that you could use house current, or if in a car a cigarette lighter adapter, to power the device. Maybe the next Visor will have one .

As much as it pains me to say this, given their historical lack of customer support, the only manufacturer that seems to understand the price/performance vs. stand-a-lone alternatives is Navicom with their HandyGPS. At $139 it is comparablely priced against low end GPS units. Its published specifications campare favorably. Plus you get city maping capabilities which none of the sub $200 GPS units have. All in all a very good deal. I ONLY WISH THEY WOULD RELEASE THE @##$%&(*&%^ THING!!!!

GeoDiscovery, another GPS spring board manufacturer, may also understand this. We will have to wait and see when they announce pricing. My concern with them is that so far their marketing spin has been adventure oriented. I'm extremely dubious about how well the Visor itself would stand up to all of the shaking and baking strain that a real adventure would subject it to.

(Handsping themselves also appear to understand the spring board price/performance vs. other alternatives; at least as it pertains to the backup module).

Now don't get me wrong I love my Visor and would have still probably of bought it even if it didn't have the spring board slot just due to price. However, I'm begining to believe that the spring board promise is like a desert mirage. Forever enticing but never attainable.

My two cents worth,
Jerry



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Truth is stranger than fiction, but it
is because Fiction is obliged to stick
to possibilities; Truth isn't. -- Mark Twain

Registered: May 2000
Location: Cleveland, Ohio 44067
Posts: 242

I bought the Visor because it was reasonably priced. I use it mostly for it's Datebook, Address Book, and Memo Pad. Most people probably get more out of their unit than I do but that's OK.

I was excited about the eyemodule but the price kept me away. I love the idea of a GPS and pager but I refuse to pay more for the gimmick of being able to add it to my Visor. If the stand alone products give me more for my money, that's the way I will go. I guess that makes my Visor a stand alone also, huh.

[This message has been edited by maddog (edited 05-24-2000).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

These are all good points. It's hard not to be ambivalent about a lot of the springboards given their prohibitive pricing. I was going to get an eyemodule, and still may get one, but right now I just got a job that will require me to get high-quality digital images for online publication, and the eyemodule just doesn't cut it from what I've seen. I have to admit, it does look fun, but $150 is a lot to pay for a toy. Ditto for the GPS springboards. They're very practical for some people, but since I don't do a lot of travelling to new locations, I wouldn't use it often enough to justify even $139.

However, even if there's only one killer-app module for every Visor user, I think the Visor has justified itself. I'm waiting for Glenayre's two-way pager. All I want to do is be able to send and receive email. It doesn't really matter if I think some springboards are gimmicks. I'm sure most people feel the same about other modules.

As far as the additional power requirements demanded by the modules, all I have to say is: Duh! Of course they're going to drain more power (except the Glenayre pager, which has its own batteries). Did people really not see that coming? Unlike the Gameboy's modules, the Visor's are mostly hardware-based. Except for MiniJam, springboards (and PDAs in general) are designed for episodic use. Even if your modules cut your battery life in half, at least you don't have to put you're Visor to bed in its recharging cradle every night, unlike some PDAs.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: bright side of the moon.
Posts: 996

I feel sorry for the people in the following scenario.

Bought a Visor Solo ($149) to keep track of daily events, phone numbers, todo lists, etc. Don't sync up with a computer (otherwise they would have paid $179 and received the cradle) so they buy a backup module (39.95). Their lives are somewhat complete. They've managed to get rid of the bulky dayplanner and now only carry a $149 Visor and 40 dollar backup module. Then they sign up for free email with one of these free ISP companies and decide that a modem module would be perfect. They can email friends, business contacts, etc!! all in the palm of their hand!!

But wait, the modem module from Handspring is 10 dollars cheaper than the Visor they originally bought!! and the only other modem module announced to date is the 6pak from innogear which sounds like it will cost up around $200!!! (I think Innogear will release a 2MB and modem module as part of their InnoPak series for cheaper but we'll see).

SO, the visor isn't a major purchase, now that these expensive modules are around. The person who bought the $149 Visor is looking around in a daze wondering how they tried to save money and ended up spending more for 'add-ons' than they did for the actual product.

It would have been nice to keep module prices lower or near the $149 mark so that ALL visor owners feel like the module they've bought is an 'accessory' and not the main item.

Confusing story...hopefully you get my point.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 42

Just to revisit the power issue. According to the Runtime utility (a great utility I recommend to everyone) my active powered on runtime is averaging ~15 hours between battery change. That's a battery change about ever 35 days or every 5 weeks. My guess is that someone that is using an MP3 player, or some of these other spring boards that require a lot of power on time, is going to be using it two to three hours a day. That's a Visor battery change every five to seven days. Which to me is ridicules and where a nightly cradle recharger would actually makes sense. And that doesn't include any power drain from normal syncing and backup module usage.

My point is that for normal Visor usage the current power mode of non-rechargable batteries is quite acceptable. But in the case where a spring board requires the visor to be on all the time its not.

What the Visor needs, and here is an idea for all you inventor types, is a battery/battery cover replacement unit that incorporates rechargable batteries and an external power/recharger jack. For connection to a cigarette lighter and/or home ac adapter. I just hope the next Visor has such a capability.

Jerry

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Truth is stranger than fiction, but it
is because Fiction is obliged to stick
to possibilities; Truth isn't. -- Mark Twain

Registered: May 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 15

Handspring is in for some trouble if the early trend of high-cost, low-return modules continues. The springboard offering thus far are almost case examples of poor product from a business textbook

The Eyemodule is an excellent case of a product that doesn�t deliver adequate value. Why? High cost. Low quality. The press views it as a failure. Find me a review (that isn�t someone�s homepage) which is impressed with the Eyemodule. In fact, how many reviews are impressed with any springboard modules that have been released so far?

Handspring markets itself based on three concepts. The first is that the originators of the Palm run the company. However, not many people care who runs a company. Can you tell me the name of the CEO of the your car�s manufacturer? The second concept is the low cost of the Visor. This is a market position that is too tenuous to hold for a small company. Palm has already responded by cutting prices. The third concept is the springboard module capability. This is the viable strategy, as what sets it apart, so far, from all competition. If popular springboard modules are not delivered, then Handspring will not last.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

quote:

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Originally posted by chitown:
Handspring markets itself based on three concepts. The first is that the originators of the Palm run the company. However, not many people care who runs a company. Can you tell me the name of the CEO of the your car�s manufacturer? The second concept is the low cost of the Visor. This is a market position that is too tenuous to hold for a small company. Palm has already responded by cutting prices. The third concept is the springboard module capability. This is the viable strategy, as what sets it apart, so far, from all competition. If popular springboard modules are not delivered, then Handspring will not last.

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While your statement about the carmaker CEO makes sense, I personally don't think it applies to Handspring. I believe the fact that it is Jeff Hawkins sets them apart. Through the Visor and its descendants, he can bring us more of his vision of what a PDA needs to be. I don't think I would have bought a Visor if it wasn't developed by Hawkins. But he is a visionary when it comes to handhelds (after all, he DID invent the category as we know it).

Your other points are valid ones. The cost issue is nothing more than simple economics. Any product is priced at what the market will bear. Competition generally drives all prices down. Palm rode high on the hog for a long time. I think they are very concerned about the Visor, or more specifically, Hawkins.

As for the Springboard, I think you will see low cost modules eventually. Bear in mind that it is a NEW technology. Once the Visor has rooted itself in the market (fair to say that it has just about done that), developers will follow. First time gadgets are almost always pricey. I just hope my theory here is right . To me, the sweet spot for general purpose modules is $50 - $75. Just look at peripheral prices for the PC over the last several years.



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MarkEagle - Ice is nice!

Registered: Mar 2000
Location:
Posts: 43

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkEagle:
Palm rode high on the hog for a long time. I think they are very concerned about the Visor, or more specifically, Hawkins.

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Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 81

As someone who has looked at developing Springboards, I can tell all of you that the reason they cost so much is the limited market. When companies look at developing for the Handspring Visor, they're looking at a current user base of approximately 200,000 units. Figuring sales to 1% of the users, they need to jack up the price just so they can pay back the venture capitalists who loaned them the manufacturing money. Once there are a 1/2 million or so Visors out there and a proven market for the Springboard, you will see the prices drop. Just my 2c.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 65

quote:

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Originally posted by jerrylcox:
What the Visor needs, and here is an idea for all you inventor types, is a battery/battery cover replacement unit that incorporates rechargable batteries and an external power/recharger jack. For connection to a cigarette lighter and/or home ac adapter. I just hope the next Visor has such a capability.

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Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 42

Old El Paso,

Hey, thanks for the pointer. As soon as they release the Visor version I think I'm going to spring for it.

Thanks again,
Jerry

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Truth is stranger than fiction, but it
is because Fiction is obliged to stick
to possibilities; Truth isn't. -- Mark Twain

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 222

Ok, call me ignorant, but I don't understand what the problem is with a springboard module using it's own batteries or using the visor's and shortening it's life?

People have to understand that when you add a major electrical unit to something, it will inevitably draw more power.

So what's the difference between having to change 4 batteries every X number of weeks and changing 2 batteries every X/2 number of weeks?? You're still using the same amount of batteries. The only difference is the trade off in how many batteries you have to change versus how often you have to change them.

Heck, what's wrong if the Minijam uses it's own batteries? If you were to purchase a stand alone MP3 player, you'd have to fork out the batteries for them anyway!

It's like adding a flash to your camera and being surprised that the flash needs it's own batteries and complaining about why it doesn't use the camera's batteries, and when and if it does, complaining about why it cut the life of the camera battery down.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 109

jerrylcox, there is such a device in the works. If you visit http://www.extendcomputer.com/html/rechargeable.html, you'll see in the left margin: "Coming Soon! FullCharge for handsprign Visor & Auto Adapter". FullCharge is a rechargable battery pack and a new battery cover that has a jack for their AC adapter so the batteries can be recharged. The adapter jack is such that it will still sit in the cradle while recharging. I'm DEFINATELY going to get one of these when it comes out!

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Trinition ([email protected])

Registered: Apr 2000
Location:
Posts: 266

I looked at this, and am I the only one concerned about recharging batteries inside the Visor? My fear is that they may leak or explode and cost me my Visor and data.

I just use a Rayovac recharger and 2 sets of AAA batteries....changing them every once and awhile.

Ryan

[This message has been edited by rclayton (edited 05-26-2000).]

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 33

The difference is that a stand alone MP3 player is very efficient whereas I heard the Minijam will suck the batteries dry in around 6 hrs.

Registered: May 2000
Location: Lambertville, MI
Posts: 25

Wow, every 5 weeks. I burn my batteries like crazy. I'm repacing them every two to four days (Akaline rechargable mind you) And with the modem I'll burn up both sets of batteries in 1 hour. It's driving me nuts. And I had the same problem with the Palm IIIe. Anyone with any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? I use my visor less than 1 hour a day.

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<><

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

I get about four to five weeks out of my Visor, but that will probably change now that I have the Stowaway. But I never used the Visor anywhere near an hour a day, and couln't even imagine that until now.

Before the advent of the Stowaway, I used the Visor perhaps ten to fifteen minutes a day on average, and that's a pretty liberal estimate. While I have other programs installed on the Visor, basically I use it for looking up contacts, making to-do lists, scheduling, using the calculator and entering memos. I use it as a tool, not a toy.

I would imagine the biggest drains on the Visor so far (before things like the MiniJam) would be e-books and games. Since I prefer paperbacks and have never been much of a gamer, I manage to get a lot of mileage out of my batteries.