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Why the ANTI-Visor?


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miradu
TreoCentral Staff

Registered: May 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1429

I've noticed recently... ALOT more anti-VISOR talk. People are trading in their VISOR for a palm, or they jsut handspring. This didn't happen a month ago. What is Handspring doing wrong? They have the visor shipping, great custumer(sp) support.. Is the visor getting to old? Will handsprings new visor's be enough to save it, and bring back these people who dislike it?
Are people finally relienzing(sp) (hick) that springboards aren't all that their hyped up to be ? (I can't believe I just said that) Why are people starting to ditch..

-miradu2000
sad sad miradu2000

10-01-2000 03:14 AM

JHromadka
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

Well I've only seen 2 or 3 threads on it, so I don't think it's an epedimic or anything. It doesn't make any sense to change from a VDX to a P3x when they're almost the same thing (if you take away the Springboard and USB).

I think it's more about trying to get a rise out of everyone and trying to get justification for their purchase.

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Old Friend

10-01-2000 03:53 AM

MIKE STH
Member

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Moved to Clie Land
Posts: 331

Most of the whining seems to be centered around MP3 players. Maybe I'm naive, but the cost justification just isn't there for ANY of these units to run MP3 at the moment. So they ditch the VISOR they already own ($250+) to buy a unit that plays MP3's ($499+) with minimal storage. Why not just buy a stand-alone MP3 player? most of the cases etc. that we have bought won't fit a unit and a MP3 player anyway...

I just don't understand I guess I agree with James, it seems to be a declaration of justification for their purchase.

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"Stupid Handspring."

10-01-2000 11:56 AM

bearboy
Member

Registered: Jun 2000
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 28

(Sigh)

Well it seems that I sparked another conspiracy theory. Again, I am just saying that I decided to go with something simpler, & if you can afford all the cool stuff that Handspring is SUPPOSED to be offering I say go for it. Yes the Palm IIIxe is almost like the Visor ($30 dollars cheaper to) but again I want simple, & simple is what it is.
Believe me when I say that I had NO trouble unloading my Visor ($280 plus the Slim case & another cradle, & I'm not complaining). It's still a fine product, but for now its not something thats for me. But if you think I'm still way out of line I suggest some of you go on ebay and look up "Handspring", I guess I'm not the only one tired of all the hoopla!

10-01-2000 03:36 PM

Cerulean
Member

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 289

There has always been people trading their Visor's for other units .. Given the fact there is close to 5000 registered members on this board and 405 new members registered in September, the few threads discussing the switch I feel is about right compared to the past.. (percentage based)..

While the new Visor's are not shipping, given their specs, I think the color unit will perform about as well as the IIIc.. At that price range, I think the Pocket PC is probably too tempting for most people to pass up.. Given this, I really hope that the next wave of Palm units integrate a lot more highend features -- higher resolution screens, 16bit (or better) color, better sound, more robust development tools & APIs to allow quicker development times of advanced software, etc.. I think its about that time where the PDA could start eating away at the laptop market for most biz professionals but for that to happen, the units will need to have much more functionaility than what they currently provide.. I think whoever does this and keeps the overall experience simple will have the next success..

Joe

10-01-2000 03:38 PM

Visorholic
Member

Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 63

You also have to look at the people who use this board. I mean look, they dye their visor's in boiling water, homebrew rechargable cradles, and are always fidgiting with something on their visors. So most of them are gadget nuts, meaning when the latest gadget comes out, they are at the CompUSA/Best Buy drooling over it. I know thats the way I am. I went to CompUSA first thing when the M100 came out. I actually liked some of the new design, but it wasn't something that had anything close to my Visor Dlx. But once its down to 100 bucks after Christmas(or so rumor has it) I'll probably buy one for some family members. Ok, now I'm way off topic. Anyways, my point is, I like playing with new gadgets. Anytime a new Palm device comes out, I'm at the store playing with it. I think that what you are seeing is gadget envy for the new Sony. I know I'm envious of it. I still plan on keep my Visor for a good while(and I think that most of the other people on this board do too) but its always good to look around that compare the competition. Look I used to use a Palm III. And if I just sat there and didn't keep an eye out for something better, well I wouldn't be here. So I think anytime a new product comes out you are going to have an exodus of people from the current one. Myself, I'm happy with my Visor, but believe me, I'm watching the new Sony with anticipation, and I'm also keeping an eye out for the next Visor. I'll compare and contrast, and make my pick

So basically, what I'm saying is, people on this board aren't the best indication of the market. I think Visor has people flocking to it still today. That Sony is $399, and thats out of alot of peoples price range. But people on this board are geeks, they like the newest toys, and they aren't afraid to jumpship to the newest device. Honestly, if that Sony was $300, I'd sell my Visor too. Not because I'm anti-visor, its because I'm pro-gadget.

-Visorholic

10-02-2000 12:40 AM

kalaban
Member

Registered: May 2000
Location: Rome, NY
Posts: 28

I have to agree with visorholic. I am not selling my Visor DX becuase I don't "like" it or Handspring.

I want the "latest & greatest" and for me it will be the IPAQ. My Visor Dx has been perfect for me, but when faced with paying the same money for a Visor Prism as an IPAQ
(I want color and speed), I have to go with what provides the most frills for the dollar bills.

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Therefore I am cool!

10-02-2000 08:43 PM

BertBert
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 125

I guess I am just old-fashioned. When I was shopping for a PDA, I did the following: (1) sized up my precise needs concerning these devices, and (2) bought accordingly. While I always knew the Visor had the potential to do be all these different devices, not once did I envision myself using more than 10% of anything on the market for it -- just the normal electronic organizer software plus a modem. So the fact that the MP3 players are too expensive (which they are, right now) and that a considerable majority of the springboard modules promised at the Visor's inception have not been delivered or perhaps even manufactured yet (which they haven't) is a little troublesome but basically not a big deal.

I upgraded from the Palm IIIx for the extra memory, for the blue color (let's be honest), and the ability to use a modem. Palm makes products that do all that now, but why go out and buy something else if you already own it?

A point James makes time and again is that it's GOOD for Palm and Handspring to have competition between each other. It improves the product lines of both companies. So I am not alarmed by anybody's negative feelings about Visor as long as the company isn't going under, which by all indications Handspring is headed in precisely the opposite direction.

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Mark 12:28-31

10-02-2000 08:48 PM

BobbyMike
Member

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

I think that for the most part we can all honestly say there is no "best" PDA, just the right one for US at THIS time. I honestly don't need a color screen at this time. I currently only use my back-up module, my 8 MB flash module, and my Stowaway keyboard. I don't download MP3s at home because I am way out in the country with no way to download a song in any decent amount of time. Therefore I'm not ready for a MP3 player yet(the good news is that I'm closing on my new house Nov. 1st, and I can get cable or DSL there!). If I buy a new PDA in the future it will be PalmOS because I like it and don't want to have to go through another learning curve. I am like most people in that I'm lazy and don't want to have to change. It took me five years to switch from a Franklin planner to a PDA. To me color and audio playback are conveniances, not necessaties. But that's me....
Bobby Mike

10-03-2000 03:13 PM

shaneben
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 4

quote:
Originally posted by kalaban
I have to agree with visorholic. I am not selling my Visor DX becuase I don't "like" it or Handspring.

I want the "latest & greatest" and for me it will be the IPAQ. My Visor Dx has been perfect for me, but when faced with paying the same money for a Visor Prism as an IPAQ
(I want color and speed), I have to go with what provides the most frills for the dollar bills.

---------------

I have to agree with kalaban I've been thinking the same
thing now since reading all the IPAQ stuff. I started out on a USR Palm Pilot 5000 and then upgraded to Palm III via memory & ROM. Sold that and went over to WinCE and liked it but was pissed when they came out with the Pocket PC but no upgrades (at the time) so I sold it and got a VDX. I like it and want it to do well but when I found out about the new Prism coming out I think they are shooting themselves in the foot why buy that when you can get the IPAQ. Plus I really really miss color. The springboard is great but CF and PCCards (PCMCIA) has been around and is mature and the IPAQ will support both.

I think one thing that kinda bugs me is the price of the Handspring modules. When I had my CE, the CF modules I had came in around $150 (modem and Ethernet card) and they worked great plus I could play MP3s through the OS without the need for a $250 dollar extra device. So with the way a lot of the cool modules coming out are costing $200+ and some only extend the VDX into what the CE can do already without additional hardware (voice recorder, extended memory, mp3). Look at the memory modules Handspring is charging $79.95 for 8 megs, well you can get a SanDisk 48 meg card for around $90 and store MP3 or any other files on there. $90 bucks and you've already beat out a standard Minijam and VDX memory module. The price of the CE starts to actually look pretty good vs. what your going to spend to extend the VDX.

I dunno again I still own my VDX and want to see Handspring succeed but the IPAQ is looking better and better all the time but I've not sold out yet.

-Shane

10-03-2000 10:47 PM

Garcimore
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Paris
Posts: 66

i am a french guy who lives near a new palmshop ant they are truly racist towards Visor
i don't know why
maybe they are jalous or somthing stupid like that
but the fact is that they are sponsoring by Palm that's why they are hostile toward my Visor

i am just waiting for my modules

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10-06-2000 10:24 AM

Henry
Member

Registered: May 2000
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 20

I'm slowly turning anti visor because of the following reasons:
1) No PQA support, even after spending 500 bucks for the phone module
2) Springboard modules that cost A LOT more then the visor itself
3) Color visor going to be $200 dollars more then VDX.
4) PalmOS limitations compared to pocket pc (PITA to sync docs)

I still love my visor a lot, but as far as my customer loyalty, handspring is treading on some awfully thin ice.

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Visors kick A$$!!!!!!

10-06-2000 09:37 PM

jakemonO
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 45

Springboards are the way to go

If you give a little thought to all of the expansion options out there for the various handhelds, Springboards really do make the most sense (IMHO.)

1. The form factor makes it easier to ship lower volume quantities of modules at reasonable prices. Yes, CF's are generally cheaper for commodity cards such as modems & memory, but try getting a CF camera, GPS or mp3 player!

2. The form factor gives a bit more room for more exotic applications than CF or SD (again, cameras, mp3 players, etc.)

3. Springboards use less power than CF.

What kind of apps will bea ble to be shoehorned onto an SD card?

10-07-2000 05:44 PM

yucca
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

Originally posted by Henry

quote:
No PQA support, even after spending 500 bucks for the phone module

We don't know that this module will not support PQAs for a fact yet. Handspring may choose to patch the OS, or a third-party may offer a utility that provides access to PQAs (just as IRLink filled the desktop IR Sync void). Also, I've not seen a PQA whose content wasn't also available via conventional web access. As long as the info is available on the web, I can create an AvantGo custom channel that gets it for me. However, I will concede that PQAs are the more convenient alternative. Two final points:

The cost for the GSM phone module is actually $300 with a service plan, and I expect to see even lower pricing available for the CDMA module. There is no hiding that this module is expensive, but it is still in the same ballpark as comparable high-end cell phones. I think the integration with the Visor's address book more than covers the price difference between it and high-end cell phones. The biggest drawback that I can see is that it has no support for hands-free operation.
Of all the features that one expects from this module, wouldn't PQAs kind of rank near the bottom? This is obviously intended to be a cell phone first, and a wireless data device second. Even when considering wireless data capabilities, wouldn't PQAs be at the bottom of list?

quote:
Springboard modules that cost A LOT more then the visor itself

Shouldn't that be some modules? The majority of the shipping modules cost less than $200, and most of these cost less than $150. There is no denying that those with their hearts set on MP3 are being asked to pay too much; but, until component costs fall, welcome to the real world where product prices have to cover the cost of components, design, production, etc. If MP3 is critical to you, sell your Visor, and get a PocketPC.

quote:
Color visor going to be $200 dollars more then VDX.

And Handspring is to be condemned for selling at the less capable Palm IIIc's price? $200 is close to the component price difference between the Prism and the VDX. If the PocketPC is too tempting at that price differential, forget loyalty, and get the PocketPC. However, remember that Handspring does not enjoy the benefit of Microsoft subsidizing the development and marketing (and probably the production) of the PocketPC. If this makes one pro-PocketPC, that is understandable; but it really shouldn't be the basis for being anti-Visor.

quote:
PalmOS limitations compared to pocket pc (PITA to sync docs)

A very valid point, but one that is overdone (by others, not you). First, Pocket Word is not without it problems, the most serious involves something as basic as spell checking (which in fairness is almost completely lacking for the Palm). See http://support.microsoft.com/suppor...s/Q188/7/82.ASP

My point is not to fault Pocket Word for it flaws, as it is still way better than anything available on the Palm platform. However, there needs to be another reality check. Just how useful can any handheld device be when working with the highly formatted documents commonly used in business today? You just can not reliably proof the look of a document on any PDA. This is especially true of documents that are going to be printed. The critical point here is that most of us can not trust Pocket Word to produce a document that we can submit to our boss or to a client.

In the end, adjusting the formatting, grammar and spell checks, and page layout decisions are best done on a desktop (or laptop) anyway. On the desktop you can actually see what effect a change will make in relation to the printed page, and your grammar and spell checking tools are more capable and reliable. Recognizing this, I've found that I can easily generate, edit, and transfer to and from the dekstop the content of a document on my Visor. Since I am going to have to polish the document on the desktop anyway, it is not that big a deal to defer most of my formatting until I get the document on the desktop.

[Edited by yucca on 10-10-2000 at 08:40 PM]

10-07-2000 08:46 PM

Belzebutt
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 40

I don't know why anyone would want to even consider switching from a Visor to a Palm IIIxe. It doesn't make any sense to me:
- Price: they cost the same everywhere I looked.
- The Visor has USB, much faster syncing than Palm III. If you don't have USB, you can get a serial cradle or you wouldn't buy a Visor in the first place.
- Form factor: the Palm is a little thicker, the Visor is a little wider. The Visor is lighter though. Visor wins slightly here for me.
- Case quality: I MUCH prefer the Visor case, the Palm III's case looks really cheap in comparison to me.
- Compatibility: tie
- Handspring has the optional springboard modules. Even if you never buy one, you still have all the advantages listed above.

I know a couple of these are personal preferences, but even if I try to look objectively I see no reason why a Palm IIIxe might be better than a Visor Deluxe, unless you can find buy it for much cheaper.

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Belzebutt

10-10-2000 10:55 PM

b1lanceman
Member

Registered: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 194

speed

has anyone here mentioned visor is noticably faster? i mean, its 158% on paper, but you can really feel the difference

10-11-2000 01:08 AM

thorin
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 415

iiiex

Well, for me the IIIxe has one advantage only; system 3.5 with greyscale support. I guess it's probably not a biggie for everyone, but I use tealpaint alot, and I really wish I could use multiple shades of grey.

ps, isn't the visor actually slightly thicker then the palm III series?

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10-11-2000 02:11 AM

Belzebutt
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 40

Re: iiiex

quote:
Originally posted by thorin
Well, for me the IIIxe has one advantage only; system 3.5 with greyscale support. I guess it's probably not a biggie for everyone, but I use tealpaint alot, and I really wish I could use multiple shades of grey.

ps, isn't the visor actually slightly thicker then the palm III series?

Yes, a little bit thicker, but not as wide and also lighter.

What are the advantages of PalmOS 3.5? Does it have the 150% speed improvement that the Visor OS has? Also, you say it supports grayscale, is that a real 16-shade grayscale? I use SilverScreen and it works fine, but I guess it's only 4 shades.

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Belzebutt

10-11-2000 03:54 AM

BEN
Member

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

Re: Re: iiiex

quote:
Originally posted by Belzebutt

What are the advantages of PalmOS 3.5? Does it have the 150% speed improvement that the Visor OS has? Also, you say it supports grayscale, is that a real 16-shade grayscale? I use SilverScreen and it works fine, but I guess it's only 4 shades.

Well, the visor has the hardware to do 16 shade grayscale, but the software does not have the capabilities. That is why Fireviewer can do 16 levels, because it bypasses the software (OS) and goes directly to the Hardware.
BEN

10-11-2000 09:56 PM

YBYSAIAH
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: King William, Virginia USA
Posts: 70

For more Visor negativity check out...

http://www.handheldinterfaces.com/visor.htm

As for me, the Visor's biggest selling points were native USB and the Backup Module - Palm still doesn't have either one.

10-13-2000 04:27 AM

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