Registered: Sep 1999
Location: CA,CA,CA
Posts: 21

why does Palm computing use flash memory? I mean, its obvious that with flash ram one can upgrade the OS...but how often does that happen? Will it happen after the 3.3 update? Or will the next new OS not be compatible with the III series?

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Salem, OR, USA
Posts: 91

Maybe...

3Com decided that they should look ahead and find places where they could add something completely unnecessary to their product that would add significantly to the price. That way, when a competitor developed a new product they would look at flash EEPROM then recognize that it was unnecessary and leave it out. Then, on a message board somewhere on the internet, a debate would rage on (spurred on by a 3Com operative by the name of HipHop) arguing the merits, or lack thereof, of including flash EEPROM. This would cause many new users to stay on the safe side and buy a Palm product.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
Posts: 36

Did ya read the interview with Hawkins? He answered why it is not in the visor...

"There were two main reasons - actual usage of the upgrade ability and price. Historically only close to 5% of Palm's users took advantage of flash upgrading their PDAs. The demand for such a feature is not high for the market the Visor is targeted for," Hawkins said. "In addition, the price would go up if we used Flash ROM. It was an economical trade off." Hawkins added that there is a possibility for "flash in higher end units."

The thing that really surprised me was that there are only 50% of the palm users who can download software into their units (further in the interview), so if there is only 50% of em that can do it, who's going to be doing flash rom???

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Urbana IL
Posts: 144

I have a completely different perspective on this. I think that flash is a very good idea simply because you don't know what is going to happen in the future. Say you come out with OS v3.5 which adds some special floating point support for that new application that everyone wants. (hypothetically) With flash, you just update, and there you are. Or how about Handspring has a bug in their ROM image that makes a couple of apps not run. This could be a minor thing, but with flash, it would be easy to fix.

Sure, many people may not use it. IMHO, people who don't are not too bright, but that's just me. The thing is, I doubt adding flash (say, just to the VD) would have cost more than $5. I would gladly pay!

Just so you know I ordered my VD some time ago.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: CA,CA,CA
Posts: 21

DKantola, I don't think that Palm Computing used flash memory just to raise the price. That would be conterproductive, especially with all of the competition that it is facing. They must feel that it is important in some way or another, just as TI feels that flash memory is an important component in some of its calculators.

Overall, I like the idea of having flash capabilities, just in case I need to update the OS. This brings me to my next question. I just ordered a Visor Standard plus the set of styli. The total was about $200+S&H. I just checked an internet store and saw that they are selling the Palm IIIx for $220. Obviously, $20 isn't that significant. However, i was wondering if the screen quality on the IIIx and Visor is significantly different (i checked out the difference at the local computer store between the V and IIIx and saw a slight difference in screen tint). Because if there is not much of a difference, i think that the Palm IIIx might be the best choice for me.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location:
Posts: 95

Forgive my ignorance, but if some new OS had that big of a revolutionary change that it should be replaced, couldn't HS just sell a new ROM chip that we could replace for, oh, say $10?

MJH <><

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Salem, OR, USA
Posts: 91

couldn't HS just sell a new ROM chip that we could replace

As long as the ROM chip is attached to the PCB with clips so that you can pop it out with one of those tools. It would be just like replacing the BIOS on a motherboard. I'm sure they would insist you send it back to them to do it though.

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 200

Replacing the ROM?

I'm sure it's a flatpack IC soldered directly to the PCB. I'm sure the IC its not on a socket since with would add too much size.

That means you would need special equipment and skills to replace the ROM IC.

The none-flash ROM is a major shortcoming of the Visor. Can you imagine you have to buy everytime a new PC MS is coming out with a new Windows version?

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

I am still trying to understand why people are so afraid of the Visor not having flash. The Palm III was the first 3COM product with flash and that came out ~2 years ago. There hasn't been a flash update in 2 years. There have been two patches that installed in RAM and did not use the flash. OS 3.3 will be the first and as stated above, there is not that much extra in it. Upgrading a Palm OS is not as necessary as upgrading Windows. People that have a PalmPilot Pro with OS 2.x can run almost all of the same programs that OS 3.x can run.

If 3COM thought that flash was really that important, they would not have released the Palm IIIe recently. The 3e does not have flash either. If OS 3.3 was that special, they would have put it on the IIIe.

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.geocities.com/jehromadka

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Salem, OR, USA
Posts: 91

This is all speculation until we get somebody who has a Visor to open it up and find out. The lack of flash ROM is not a major shortcoming. What if MS's new version of Windows only added support for new hardware (AGP, USB) that you did not have? What good would it do you to upgrade?

JHromadka: I think HipHop is a 3Com operative sent to discourage people from buying Visors and stir up controversy.

[This message has been edited by DKantola (edited 10-10-1999).]

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Modesto, CA USA
Posts: 599

Hip Hop
The early generations of Palm had replacment ROM chips. I beta tested and I can tell you that was the case. I can't swear to the fact on the Palm V but the Palm IIIs had a replacement chip in early production units. The first generation only used one side of the board but secondary units used both sides very compact.

Instructions were actually given on replacement because that was part of the beta.



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Richard

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 47

For that matter, when I (or any of the other purchasers of this upgrade) went from my PalmPilot Professional with 1MB of RAM, no IR, and no flash to my PalmPilot Professional with 2MB of RAM and IR and FLASH, it was done via a replaceable chip. It's not that difficult, it doesn't add that much to the size unless you're going for a Palm V thinness, which obviously the Visor isn't. I myself am not too concerned with the lack of Flash on the Visor... I don't consider Flash a necessity at this stage of the game.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Posts: 2

I'm confused by the '5% flash upgrade' number that Hawkins is talking about in the interview. If there hasn't been a flash upgrade for my Palm before the rumor of 3.3, how can only 5% have performed a flash upgrade? Or was there one and I just missed? What OS version was this upgrade that he's talking about?

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 81

HipHop sez: "Can you imagine you have to buy everytime a new PC MS is coming out with a new Windows version?"

Yes, I can imagine it. In fact, that's very common. And a lot of people who don't buy a whole new PC spend a few hundred dollars in hardware upgrades -- added memory, bigger hard drive, etc.

Given MS-bloat, new hardware is practically a requirement when upgrading Windows.

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 103

Amen to that Bearpaw!!!

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: ME, USA
Posts: 46

Just my $0.02...

From someone who fell into the "gotta have the latest and greatest" trap (so to speak) with the Sharp Wizards back a few years ago...I can't say I'm too worried about not having flash. If the technology advances enough to justify the expense, I'll buy a new PDA...if not, I bought (ordered) something -- the VDx -- which will work just fine for what I need it to do.

I think it's a wee bit unfortunate that our computers -- like cars -- are *sometimes* more status symbols than the tools they were designed to be...

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

For those who consider Flash upgradability a major issue, remember that the Visor is Handspring's first product. A power-user vanity model with Flash is sure to be coming along soon.