Registered: Aug 1999
Location: Inverness, FL
Posts: 428

After spending about an hour jumping from service to service, Alan realized why he never uses a web-based organizer. It's a dumb idea!

http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-4-75-1-4.htm

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<B>Marcus Adolfsson</B>
Editor

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 53

Mac users do have a site and some other comments

I guess Alan never got forwarded the e-mail I sent Kenny and Marcus. Mac users DO have a free (no ads so far also) site at:http://www.scheduleonline.com They have a conduit in Beta and they would love to have Mac users who use web calendering to test it out.

I use Web based organizers - not as frequently as my visor - but let me take each of Alans points:
Q: If you have a handheld device and you carry that device with you everywhere, why do you need to have that data accessible from a web site?
A: Have you ever LOST or had your visor data completely ERASED? If you are a business user - those meeting schedules and contact numbers can mean the difference between a lost order or a successful meeting. Yes, I know the backup module is there. But I have a friend who moved home from the US to another country, had his visor lost while enroute. His desktop computer was still inside a shipping container on a ship somewhere - and he had to start a business and meet important people. Luckily he had a printed copy of the contact list but a Web organizer would have saved him a lot of trouble.
Another point is sharing your schedule. I am as paranoid as the next person - but I do need to keep my business going. With web based organizers, my colleagues in Germany can lookup my schedule and even setup meetings. My wife who refuses to carry a visor because of its bulk (she's a systems analyst!) uses the web calender to check our common schedule. We were using Yahoo until a week ago but we have switched to scheduleonline.

Q: Why do you want to keep a copy of your most sensitive data up on some "strangers" server?
We are only talking about contact name, phone numbers and schedules. I dont have my bank account numbers online at any web organizers service. Most web organizers allow you to slect each field that has to be replicated.
I would be more worried about a virus that is running on my friends M$Windows computer that can go into an address book and churn out thousands of e-mails with self-replicating virus's (read Mellissa) - how secure do you think the average users home computer is when connected to the net? I would rather trust a company that has experience in data security rather than a novice freind who is on the net with my information on his computer for the world to see. The choice is poor - but we do have sensitive data on the internet - including my tax return that I just filed over the Internet and my bank accounts. Since the banks and the IRS are "strangers" - there is a problem because they have your information already accessible inside and outside their organization. Enough has been written about Internet security so we will never get anywhere with this discussion. Point in case is that the most sensitive data lost by the FBI/MI5 was not over the Internet but by spies inside or by someone forgetting thier laptop in some train station in England!

Q: Is this progress?
The point raised by Alan in this about "time" is valid - it takes a lot more time to access web based data - rather than on my visor. BUT - group scheduling DOES take time. I have fought enough battles in our company trying to have our people share their schedules. If everyone had a visor but NO way of sharing schedules - a business - especially a schedule sensitive business cannot survive. I would rather use a slow to access web based cross-platform service than M$'s proprietory solution that is attacked by the next virus and costs us thousands of dollars to maintain every month.

Web based organizers provide an opportunity for Visors (and other Palm OS) computers to be taken seriously by business by providing the missing link of sharing information that is not currently available. For the Palm user base to grow such services are essential. I think enough business users have probably been scared by this article for them to think twice before implementing a shared handheld solution. Or maybe they would use the CE/Pocket PC platform with the built-in M$-Echange client that shuts out other platform users completely. Us Visor/Palm users should use our soap box wisely.

Otherwise - a good article - I might try the Portio service as soon as they have a Mac client.

Here is the link to my post about http://www.scheduleonline.com

http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=11929
Bye
AM

Last edited by alexmathew on 02-22-2001 at 10:27 PM

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 391

What happens if you can't get online?

Answer: you can't sync your PIM data! So your data doesn't get backed up, because you disable the Palm Desktop conduits when you sync to their service. This is a problem.

What do people who actually use these services do? Alternate syncing to Palm Desktop and the web service, or just take their chances?

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Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC<br>
<a href=http://www.taronga.com/~peter/>Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?</a>

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

The article was very well written. As far as web-based organizers go I'm of the opinion that they have a limited user base. The only real advantage I see to one is the ability to schedule meetings with a larger number of people, but will that be worth it when the inevitable virus/hacker takes down the entire system and/or sends e-mails en-masse to all your contacts and/or just screws with your meeting times, contact #'s, dates that to-do's are due, or changes the "e"'s to "i"'s in your notebook for fun? It may be the perfect solution for someone, but I'm content with a backup module, home computer, and a mote of security.

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 3

Web Based Organizers

I have to agree with alexmatthew--I use Yahoo's web-based organizer as a last resort backup option. I only sync with it about once a month, and then usually just the address book and calendar. I don't use the web-based organizer for anything else. After all, I have a Visor!:-)

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

Good post. Your points are well taken. I use to feel completely safe with these solutions...and though I haven't used web organizers in great length...I used similar services...and I had some security issues where the big name company (won't name names) accidentaly released my private information...

I am still haunted by that info (as many of my contacts were spammed and sent marketing materials)...and it still pops up now and again. I have also had some credit card info released (not from these services) by a big company...and I ended up shipping a lot of stuff over to Asia...of course I had no idea I had ordered $3,000 worth of technical books.

I use to feel safe on the net because I worked in this industry...not any more.

I did say that there are some valid arguements for this technology...and I think in a corporate environment it is at times valid to share schedules...but I just don't find the current state of this technology and the security issues worth the risk.

I work in a very "top-secret" environment...people don't want any trade secrets released...and they don't want anyone else to know who they may be meeting with, since it can do things like effect stock prices (mergers, acquisitions and etc).

I have lost my data...and I did have a backup of my phone numbers on Portico...but I also carry my backup module everywhere.


"We are only talking about contact name, phone numbers and schedules. I dont have my bank account numbers online at any web organizers service."

Ah...but some people carry some very sensitive info...and some of these applications will take your Notepad and To Do List and post them up...you may not have to worry about it being published...but anytime you have any data up on a server...you run the risk of someone seeing that information.

Again, there are some compelling arguments for this type of service...I just don't feel it is quite up to par for the general user. I do think we should continue to develop such technologies to see where they take us...but they just seem like more of a hassel right now to bother with.

Thanks for the comments.

Alan

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I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 53

Poll: How many Visor users password lock-out their Visors?

Thanks Alan,
Security is a big concern - I dont disagree.

Lets take a poll and see what percentage of Visor Users use their password lockout feature on their Visors? If the number is substantially high, then I give your argument credit that the Visor IS safer/more secure than a web based service. If most users dont, then what happens when you loose your Visor?

Shall I post this on a seperate thread or would Visorcentral like to run a poll on the front page?

I think the statistics would be of interest to all of us.
Bye
AM

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

If anyone wants to run a poll...go ahead...let's use a different thread however.

My Visor is more secure...because I meant it when I mentioned it was stitched to my side. I use the sport case from Handspring to carry mine...it attatches to my hip via clips, nylon straps and my belt. Not possible to lose it...and I'd severly injure someone who touches it.

BTW...one thing that kinda scares me about security...and I know it may seem silly...but you know...any administrator at one of these companies can login as me and see my stuff. Ethics doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything. If someone wants it bad enough...they'll do it.

The last company we worked at used the proprietary MS software you mentioned...and they MADE us use Outlook...which I hate. It was neat though to check my mail and my schedule via a browser...however I think I mentioned I HATE Outlook. I like simplicity...and Outlook has waaay tooooo much overhead. Plus...since it stored all the data on the company server....once I took my laptop out of the office...without a net connection...my Outlook was empty.

Anyway...good discussion.

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I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 172

I used the MyPalm service to import holidays and the 2001 Montreal Expos schedule into my Visor, so they must have SOME benefits, huh?
BTW, I have found Visto.comto be the best free online PIM.
http://www.visto.com/

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"Life is what you experience between racing games"
Galley

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 714

I agree that they're not all that usefull. I just installed MyPalm yetserday because the stupid thing stopped working right and never contacted the server correctly. Not to mention when I imported holidays it made duplicates of all my stuff in Datebook.

Portico looks cool, I'm glad you gave it its own section.

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Matt Nichols
[email protected]

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: New York City
Posts: 3

Has anyone tried fusion one? (www.fusionone.com) After wiping out my Visor on more than one occassion, and not having the sense to go out and buy a backup module (I have one now thank you very much), the only way I can access my PIM information online is through my WAP phone.

Any other PIM services WAP-enabled?

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{:^) tkj

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

When I first signed up for Portico...they gave me a money back guarantee if I wasn't satisfied after the first month.

I didn't need it.

If they still have that offer...try the service out. Just sync your phone numbers and contact info...then pick up any phone and see how it works. If you have a Mac, just import your contact data.

I wouldn't steer you wrong on this one because it costs money. But you get what you pay for. I think you will all be so impressed...you will keep the service. I can't tell you how many times it saved my butt.

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I saw that everyone else had a signature and I felt left out, so here is mine.

Registered: May 2000
Location:
Posts: 4

Calendar Publishing

My in reason for using the Yahoo! web-organizer is to publish a public version of my Calendar. This lets my colleagues, friends, etc. now when I am available. After checking into about 15 services, I came back to Yahoo! because it allows caledar events to be separated into one of three classifications:

* public - everyone knows what I am doing and when
* busy - everyone knows that I am unavailable but not why
* private - no-one knows that the event is even there

On the issue of disabled Palm Desktop conduits... this is another advantage of Yahoo! The TrueSync software allows you to do a 3-way sync with Yahoo!, Palm Desktop and the Palm Device. Personally, I use a 2-way sync between Palm Desktop and Yahoo! and let my device sync with Palm Desktop normally. This way, I can do less frequent sync's with Yahoo! (say daily or every couple of days) and still do multiple syncs between Palm Desktop and my VDx.

Just my $.02,
Paul

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Another Environmentalist for Nuclear Power

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 2

Fusionone

I use Fusionone.com daily. It allows me to sync my office computer and home computer. It has some cool features such as bookmark and file syncing also. It also supports categories and multiple subfolders. One cavet is that the Palm client seemed to crash my visor, so now i just sync my computers to fusionone and then sync my visor. Not a perfect solution, but i like the service.

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Best Reason For Web Scheduling

My wife and I use MyPalm so that she can access my schedule and add events to both my work machine and my handheld (like when I need to pick the kids up from daycare).

That said, the process of initially synching our data resulted in wiping out both my machine-based Outlook and calander on my handheld. Fortunately I was able to recover, but the process of merging was gruesome. I chose the merge data over the overwrite option, yet the MyPalm program overwrote despite my selection.

We'll see how it works for us, but I get this recurring feeling that app writers at places like Avantgo and MyPalm still haven't come to terms with the fact that some of us synch on both a home and a work machine. 75% of my problems with my VDX have been as a result of onscurities related to synching on two different machines. The other 25% of my problems involve a recurent sugar coating that interferes with the connection between my Visor and cradle.

Make mine glazed.

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 61

quote:

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Originally posted by agraham999


The last company we worked at used the proprietary MS software you mentioned...and they MADE us use Outlook...which I hate. It was neat though to check my mail and my schedule via a browser...however I think I mentioned I HATE Outlook. I like simplicity...and Outlook has waaay tooooo much overhead. Plus...since it stored all the data on the company server....once I took my laptop out of the office...without a net connection...my Outlook was empty.

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Once in a while you get shown
the light....

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 1

Good reasons for web-based organizers

One of the problems with this article is that it assumes your organizer is only for you. That's not always the case.

I used Excite's Planner for months before I ever bought my PDA (a Visor Platinum). I also used Outlook at work, and used the syncronization tools to keep the two (and now three) products synchronized.

So why do I use Excite? Simple...it allows my wife to quickly and easily check my schedule from any location (home or work), without having to know my Outlook login (or even my Excite login information, though she does have it). I can optionally allow other people (family, friends) to view the portions of my schedule I choose to make public. Not only that, but armed with my Excite password she can easily add items to my schedule at any time, from any location, and the next time I sync they suddenly appear in Outlook and my Visor. Since I keep both personal and business information in my planner, this ability lets my wife act as a personal secretary for me -- and since she's the social one in the family, that works great!

Since Excite is also my start page for my web browser, I get a lot of information when I open my browser: news, weather reports, sports scores, and my personal calendar and to-do list for the day, among with many other things. It's nice to have that information at my fingertips, without having to pull out my PDA or fire up Outlook.

Security? Not a problem -- I'm not storing credit card numbers online, or business secrets, or anything like that. And if I wanted to store such information in the memo application of my Visor, the sync tool for Excite allows me to specify certain categories on my Visor and/or in Outlook that are not syncronized with Excite (though they can still by synced with each other).

Excite's Planner will never be my primary PDA -- I rarely use it to enter any information. It does, however, have its uses -- a "live" backup being one of them.

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

Re: Good reasons for web-based organizers

quote:

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Originally posted by RobN
...Not only that, but armed with my Excite password she can easily add items to my schedule at any time, from any location, and the next time I sync they suddenly appear in Outlook and my Visor. Since I keep both personal and business information in my planner, this ability lets my wife act as a personal secretary for me -- and since she's the social one in the family, that works great!...

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-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 53

Visor / Palm OS security Poll link here

Hi,
Here's a Poll on Visor/Palm security preferences:
http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...?threadid=12499

Bye
AM

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 170

quote:

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Originally posted by argent
What happens if you can't get online?

Answer: you can't sync your PIM data! So your data doesn't get backed up, because you disable the Palm Desktop conduits when you sync to their service. This is a problem.

What do people who actually use these services do? Alternate syncing to Palm Desktop and the web service, or just take their chances?

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