Registered: Aug 2000
Location: The Matrix
Posts: 718

I need help in advising my cousin. She is a doctor and has two organizers and desires to consolidate all the info onto one device. I have a Handspring Visor Prism, and I am trying to convince her to invest in the Hanspring Visor Platnium, but I want to truly help her decide which PDA will be her best choice. After some research, it came down to these three devices:

1) Palm IIIxe

2) Palm Vx

3) Handspring Visor Platnium

So baically I am looking for as many doctors and even medical students on this message board to help suggest which PDA is best for a practicing doctor.

Thanks for your time.

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-Mikedemo
It's all about how you spend the money.

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Houston
Posts: 34

I have a Prism, with an 8MB Flash memory module as well, and have found this to be of great help for keeping all the medical info that I need at my fingertips. You can get by with 8MB but 16 is better! The Prism is so much better in regard to the clarity of the screen, especially at night or in poor light conditions, that I think it is better to spend the extra money for it. And it is just as fast as the Platinum model, especially if you use Quickbits.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

melpich makes a good point. Unless money is a big issue (still paying for med school? ), suggest that she get a Prisim. The screen clarity will be of big benefit. To save money, suggest the Platinum. Take her to CompUSA and show her the difference between the two screens, let her pick.

Another huge benefit of any Visor over any Palm is the Springboard slot. For example, our cousin can get any of these as a plug-in module and not eat up all her main memory:

- Physician's Desk Reference
- Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine
- The Washington Manual of Medical Therapeutics
- The Medical Letter Handbook of Adverse Drug Interactions

Lastly, if she doesn't know about it, tell her to go to: http://www.pdamd.com/
There's tons of info there.

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Jeff

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

Visor Platinum, an extra 8 Mb module, and download epocrates.

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 384

The Palatium gets my vote also

Here are my opinions of the advantages of the Platinum:

1. Platinum has the fastest processor of any Palm devise: great for accessing those HUGE medical data bases. You can get overclocking software like Afterburner to further boost the speed of the Platinum, making almost instantaneous information retrieval.

The most important and essential feature in a PDA for medical use is MEMORY, MEMORY, MEMORY!

2. 8mb module: speaking of huge medical databases, 8 internal meg is the minimum needed. With the springboard slot you can add an extra 8mb making the entire package 16mb's. The Palm's only have 8mb, you CAN add other 8mb plug onto them, but the plug sticks out of the botton of the palm breaking all the cool form-factor of the Palms.

3. 8mb module again: The 8mb flash module is great because it allows applications to run directly off the module. I believe this is rather unique among memory expansions. Other memory mediums, CF, SM, memory sticks do not allow you to run applications off on them. Although, I am hearing conflicting reports regarding the CF capabilties of the TRGpro.

4. Medical software: Not all medical software can be stored in these external memories. Currently, more and more companies are modifying their programs that allow their data to be stored in the flash module. Isilo, tealdoc, and tealinfo can work with the module, there are numerous medical databases for these programs. The biggest developers of medical software: Franklin, handheldmed, and Skyscape have modified their programs to be compatible to the 8mb Flash Module. Skyscape is my personal favorite, the new versions (3.1) of their programs are all Flash Module compatible!!!

5. MORE memory!!! There are rummors that a 16mb Flash Module are on the way. Actually they are already selling them in Japan, they are currently in testing in the US and should be available Q1. Also, rummored that the Platinum and Prism can be upgraded to 16 internal mb's! A company in Hong Kong has already done it, and a company in Singapore are currently trying to do the upgrade also. Imagine a 32mb Platinum/Prism!!

Those are the advantages I could see, and I didn't even go into the expansion protential of the springboard slot.

[Edited by Fat_Man on 01-04-2001 at 12:29 AM]

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Fat's

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 5

I agree with the advice above. I am an internist and just upgraded from the vdx to the prism. The extra 8mb memory springboard is great. I use the merck from handheldmed.com and epocrates (epocrates.com)on a daily basis (including today on rounds). Most of our resident physicians and numerous attendings are using them. I agree that pdamd.com is a good site as well as the pages under its "links" section. I believe it is inevitable that some type of pda will be almost required in the future given their efficiencies and ability to deliver information quickly.
PS also try http://www.healthypalmpilot.com and the medical sites under avantgo.com like air heart professional.

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: The Matrix
Posts: 718

A decision has been made!!!!

I would like to thank all of you that replied. Your insight and advice was well recieved by my cousin and it helped her make wise decision.

She went Platinum!!! Visor Platinum that is.

Thanks again all you guys and gals. You helped to birth another Visor user.

[Edited by mikedemo on 01-09-2001 at 11:03 AM]

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-Mikedemo
It's all about how you spend the money.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

Heheh. Great. Another MD friend just went for a Platinum too.

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 173

Tell her Tarascon's (sp?) pharmacopeia is available FREE from http://www.medscape.com.

jonesmd
...only a deluxe but waiting to go platinum!

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

Trade it back in and go with the TRGPro.

I wear the ugly scrubs too and went with the Platinum first. The paint started to rub off, the limited capacity for memory was annoying and the modules were bulky, proprietary, expensive, and hard to find. Then a geek down the road (Isn't that where they always live?) Introduced me to the TRGPro... Wow. It's like a Visor Deluxe but with upgradable OS capabilities (not just patches), a non-propritary Type1/2 CompactFlash slot for modems and such (like handspring modules but cheaper and cooperate with your laptop) and the cf slot uses standard cf memory which now you can get 32mb of memory for the same price as handspring's 8mb springboard module. I have tons of medical books on mine, medical software with ALL the databases I can find, tons of applications, and I am filling it up with paitent data as I go along. I went ahead and purchased the 64mb compact flash card at compusa for $100 and I've yet to fill the whole thing up. (My platinum filled up in a week) I just recently purchased the smardmedia attachment(So it will use my camera film as harddrives) and the GoType... it's heaven. I can even share data with my friends iPaq because he can just take his 1gig microdrive out and pop it in my trg pro. This is the handheld that Handspring doesn't want you to know about. Now my laptop, deskop, handheld, digital camera, and pcs phone all work together in unison.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 1571

Then Why

If TRGPRO is so good, why is it not even on the radar screen of consumers and why is no one buying it?

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

Vague Response.

I didn't know you had access to data that showed the "radar screen" of consumers or TRG's sales information. I certainly wouldn't refute it if you did.

I also am not an employee, so I can't give you a definate answer to your question though, but I can speculate...

1) They aren't a big company with big name CEO's that already have names in the media. (Might explain your "radar" theory, although I've seen tons of reviews.)

2) They spent their limited amount of money on the device rather than blitz marketing and developing a propritary hardware solution.

3) It's not really an average joe handheld as the Palm and Visor are advertised as. It doesn't use the iMac marketing model and come in 5 fruity flavors. There is no color screen. There seems to be emphasis on buying large volumes for company employees and using their distributed/deployment tools. No flashy graphics or models on their website. The people that buy these probably don't care about styli/case/pda trends, they buy once and go to work for a few years, not good for other companies keep-'em-coming-back consumer trend model.

The only reason I reccommended this is because there was another MD requesting information. That compact flash is really invaluable. I have a laptop, desktop, and pda now. With a digital camera on the side for fun. The desktop stays in my apartment, the laptop at my office, and the pda/camera is for trips and quick access of information in my pocket when I can't get to my laptop/desktop. I have a CF reader on the desktop and laptop and the camera already reads it. I can pull the cf card out of any device and it's like a regular drive in explorer on the laptop and desktop, and even if I have some data on it I can stick it in my camera/laptop/desktop and use it for film/harddrives without corrupting anything, and vice versa. I buy a few CF cards and it's like having harddrives that are accessable by any device I have. The data on these cf cards also doesn't get wiped out when the OS crashes and calls for a reformat. My 3 days jaz backups of VITAL paitent information are a thing of the past.

The only other other thing holding me back from my original PalmIIIxe vs Platinum was the ability to use a keyboard and modem at the same time, the TRGPro does this. The OS on the TRGPRo is also upgradable because it has 2mb flashrom(The os takes up 1.5mb so you get 500k for personal usage!), that beat the visor out. The CF modem/ethernet in my palm works with my laptop too, so I didn't need to buy a modem for both, not like springboard modules that only work in the visor. I may be a doctor but I still don't like to spend more money than I have to. If I decide to buy a mp3walkman device for when I go running, if I get a compact flash based one I already have the memory for it! If handspring goes out of business you're pretty much screwed if your handheld breaks, if TRG does... the flash memory and CF devices still work in my laptop/desktop.

The only thing I can see that the Platinum has over the TRG is the processor speed, but that takes off less that 3 seconds, not exactly the speed HS would like you to believe. The paint wore off pretty quickly but that's already been beat to death on here. If you really want a nice case and money is no object... go with the $250+ metal "skin" cases It's tinted titanium for even the buttons. Some guy makes it but I can't find his website. Anyone remember it?

Back to the topic, I really don't know why hs and 3com stay in business with this utopiapda around. Maybe there is something horribly wrong with this device and I'm not aware of it yet. But I did ourperform my Platinum in medical usability and that's what they asked for.

P.S- IF there is something horribly wrong with it please tell me before my 90 days is up =P

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

Re: Vague Response.

Re: CF cards - - You do know that you can not actually run an application or use data directly off that CF card, right? It must first get copied back to main memory (which takes considerable time) before anything actually happens. This is not the case with the 8MB SBM and Visor friendly applications (or the above mentioned applications on SBMs). They can actually run from the SBM. That said, I agree that the capacity and low cost of CF memory cards are a big plus, especially if you can use the cards with other devices. Also, lurkers should be aware that only CF peripheral cards with Palm OS drivers will work in the TRG. So be careful with card selection; not just any card will work.

Re: simultaneous keyboard and modem - - This does work on the Visor (at least with a Thinmodem).

Re: OS upgrades - - It probably bears repeating that most folk will choose to upgrade to a new PDA that integrates desireable hardware features (e.g. the Palm VII or VIIx), rather than upgrading the OS to support an add-on device (e.g. Palm V + Mystral wireless modem). Not that an upgradeable OS isn't a good thing, but its desireablility is overblown.

I think that the TRG is well suited to your needs. You are to be congradulated for having the patience to find a solution that works so well for you. I also agree that the TRG is a better fit given your already heavy use of CF cards. However, if you are not already a big CF card user, I think that a VPL with any applicable commerial apps on SBMs and a 16MB SBM (for downloadable stuff) will get the job done faster (especially if you do alot of database searches) and with greater ease.

[Edited by yucca on 01-23-2001 at 02:03 PM]

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

Hrmms, I think you might have to use the TRGPro to make claims like "considerable", remember I came from the VPL that was 16mhz faster and had direct access to SBM's memory, and I noticed only a 2-3 second lag going to the TRGPro. I expected those two factors you listed to be like a minute wait, not so. I would more use "slight" than "considerable". Either way it's faster than an online medical database search online with my cablemodem.

I didn't use CF cards at all before I got my TRGPro. It was after I purchased it that I bought a USB CF Card reader and a PCMCIA CF Card Reader off ebay for really cheap. The camera came after that. I now can instantly share big apps/digital pictures and info with the guy down the street and my coworker with the ipaq. It's seriously a nirvana to be able to share the media with all the same devices, of course I can see if you don't need to share any media then it wouldn't be all that beneficial, just a cheaper and more abundant storage medium than SBM's.

I haven't needed to use any "palm drivers" with the device since TRG's palmos version has been hacked like the HS one. There is a message on the site that not every single cf device on the market will work (right now anyway), but as long as you stick with the companies the site links to, you're ok. Did I mention you can use PalmIII hardware accessories too? Now THAT'S expand/upgrad-ability.

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 56

Platinum vs. TRGpro for medical use

While MIKEDEMO has likely made a purchase since the initial post, I thought I would provide some thoughts regarding the best suited handheld for the medical professional for others facing this decision. In the past, I have used both the TRGpro and Platinum in a strictly medical capacity. I currently own a Platinum.

While I echo luciddreams sentiment about the speed of transfer between the CF card and TRGpro's internal RAM (i.e., it is surprisingly fast and most would feel it to be negligible), I would not be so kind to the speed of the HotSync. Every TRGpro unit comes standard with a serial cradle (RS232 serial communication). This connection IS FRUSTRATINGLY SLOW AND INADEQUATE. It took me over a half hour to load a single program from Skyscape on the TRGpro. The same program takes a fraction of the time to load on a Handspring Device using a USB connection. Additionally, all database HotSync's on the TRGpro where MUCH slower than the USB Handspring product.

This glaring inequity between the two devices comes down to speed of the respective connections. Ports supporting the current USB 1.1 run fine at a 12-mbps speed. Version 2.0 of the USB interface promises to increase the usability and performance of consumer electronics with a data transfer rate of 480Mbit/sec. The RS232 serial connection speed is a dismal 0.115 mega bits per second.

I really do not understand why TRG has not gotten on-board with the USB connection. The TRGpro is a fine product and has temporarily won the memory capacity battle (however, Handspring will likely win the war with the MemPlug, Matchbookdrive, and Hagiwara 16mb Flash module). Though as I mentioned, the lack of a USB port CURRENTLY make a the Platinum a photo-finish winner in this debate.

Worth noting, all medical books from HandHeldMed and the Reader.prc program run fine from the Flash Module so you free up your RAM for the 2 or 3 favorite medical programs from SkyScape or the less comprehensive products (but free) such as Tarascon and ePocrates qRx. Also Skyscape has promised products to be Flash-Module capable in the near future (if not now). So having a gazillion MB of space would be nice, but I do not miss it all that much and Handspring is quickly catching up.

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<i> If it's worth doing, it's got to be done right now.</i>

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Midwest
Posts: 232

Yep, they must be doctors... ;-)

My wife is a doctor. I know many.

I can assure everyone that simply from the length of the previous few posts, the authors must surely be doctors too.

Dave ;-)

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There is nothing yet made by man that cannot be improved upon.

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 384

Skyscape is Flash Compatible

The current version (3.1) of Skyscape's medical references are 100% Flash compatible, the Reader and associated databases can be stored in the Flash Module without any problems . The only thing that must remain in internal memory is the personal note files.

I agree with Docvisor regarding the speed of the USB syncing. The up-coming 16 mb modules as well as the CompactFlash/Memory Stick/Smart Media modules should solve the memory constraint.

I am eagerly waiting for the 16mb module . I might also add that the speed of the VPL is an advantage over the TRGpro especially with the huge medical databases.

Although, there are few, if any, modules besides the memory module that are medically related. I know a few residents in my program that have developed rather useful applications with their module. One resident is using one of those wire-less internet modules to asscess Harrison's medical site and numerous medical/drug reference sites (like the Up-to-Date medical site). Another resident is using the Eyemodule to actually take pictures of x-rays, CT's, and MRI's and using the picture on rounds. Although, the eyemodule's resolution is not great, you can actually see most of the lesions, fractures, or infarcts. That's kinda cool .

Well, not to be out-done , I have a Quick-Link pen scanner. Now I just scan lab reports, CT/MRI/X-ray reports, past-medical H&P's etc... and beam them directly to my VPL. The pen scanner is also great for making a Pearls database.

[Edited by Fat_Man on 01-27-2001 at 12:19 AM]

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Fat's

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 35

well, in the case of the TRGPro vs platinum:

TRG Pro can take CF cards.

Platinum can take 8-16 meg springboard, CF Cards (the springboard is all over the place on ebay) soon smartmedia cards, and soon i think memory stick (im not sure, i remember hearing it somewere)

SO whats the advantage to TRG Pro? i dont see much.... the CF adapter for visor pretty much ended the debate whether to get a TRGPro or a visor.

Registered: Sep 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

Already Out?

Where do you see a Compact Flash/Smart Media Module and 16mb Springboard module? I see the 8mb Module one for $80, of course you can get a 64mb Compact Flash card for that price. Can HS's Compact Flash springboard module use CF TypeI/II devices? I'd hate to see the price comparison on a 16mb springboard module to compact flash memory.

I agree, the slow hotsync with the TRGPro is due to the serial interface cable that comes stock. I purchased a usb docking cable at first, then I purchased a usb media reader that allows CF and SM cards to show up as hot-swappable harddrives on my Desktop and Laptop(try that with a SBM), and also to quickly read my digital camera's CF film. I don't know where you were going with USB2.0, current USB1.0 devices(The Visor USB Cradle, 3com USB Cable) are not "upwards compatable", when the new usb standard comes out everything is going to have to be upgraded.

Again I am saying this is a better device for MD's. I have about 40mb of medical data and paitent databases on one card while I have 28mb of family pictures and stuff on another. I also have another backup card just in case I need more memory or someone wants to transfer something to me. All three of those CF cards (64,64,128) fit in a little protected plastic wallet the size of 1 springboard module, I'm interested in knowing how md's fit a few springboard modules in their scrubs, and do the SBM's have any protective wallet? Sometimes it gets quite a bit messy in the hospital.

I'd like to admit that the TRGPro is more expensive with the additional accessories I've purchased (USB Cable $30, USB CF Card Reader $40, PCMCIA CF Card/Device Reader$40), but add up what you would of paid for 128mb worth SBM memory. My additional $110 doesn't look that bad now. It also enhances my ability to manage the media by being able to use them as hotswappable harddrives in my Laptop/Desktop/DigitalCamera. My CF 56k Modem, GPS and Xircom Ethernet CFDevices's(Can you even use ethernet with a Visor?) also work in my laptop. The stuff I buy works in other devices, not only the TRGPro, which should be the ultimate selling point for those with multiple devices.

I liked the idea of snapping pictures with an Eyemodule. I was thinking of getting the Kodak PalmPix, for the integration aspect but I already bought a digital camera. I'm a little too much of a gadget geek. Also, The Quicklink pen scanner is definatly cool though, I'll have to look into that.

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 56

Re: Already Out?

quote:

---

Originally posted by luciddreams
Where do you see a Compact Flash/Smart Media Module and 16mb Springboard module? I see the 8mb Module one for $80, of course you can get a 64mb Compact Flash card for that price.

---

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