dick-richardson
Member
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531 |
quote:
There is no given culture in this case.
Any time there is a gathering a people there is culture, some more defined than others. This culture is predominantly english-speaking Americans.
quote:
Language itself is subjective, hence it's power.
quote:
And its weakness.
Agreed.
quote:
Why are there so many different words that mean the same thing? It's the color that is conveyed when using a term. Saying Handspring is retarded obviously strikes a different chord that saying Handspring has a low IQ.
quote:
No, that is not universally obvious.
Yes, I think it is. I refer to this post and the responses it generated as my proof.
quote:
Again, granted. And yet we learn as we go. Most people wouldn't have used the term retarded, realizing that it strikes an emotional chord with people. If timpearson didn't know using the term retarded would cause this reaction, he does now. If he chooses to use it in the future it will be with the foreknowledge of how some people react to it. As an aside, calling Handspring retarded put a lot of people on the defensive and if his intention was to get people to agree with him or to elicit change, he failed.
quote:
Well, we agree that is has been generally established here that many people cannot cope very well with criticism of Handspring, especially of an emotional nature.
There is a way to criticize that will get people on your side. Attacking merely puts people on the defensive. It's not that people can't handle criticism of Handspring, just read posts by other people criticizing Handspring for a myriad of topics, ranging from not releasing an OS update for the original visor and visor deluxe, to the materials used to make the platinum. The criticism wasn't the problem, the terminology used was. Criticizing Handspring differently would have elicited a vastly different responce, and if done properly might have resulted in Handspring receiving a lot of e-mails, calls, etc. asking for a policy change.
quote:
And yet you do identify a difference between the impressions given.
quote:
Key words being that I identify. No such universal difference can be objectively assigned.
Yes, they can. Why does the term "dog" refer to a four legged, furry animal that barks? Because of universal differences that have been objectively assigned. This is the case with any given word in a given language.
quote:
Which one is harsher is irrelevant. Connotation does play a role, and to a lot of people retard connotes something very degrading. As I said before, it would be nice if people could read the idea instead of the words, but that's not how it works.
quote:
But what I was really getting at is that the idea is what matters. If the word is all that's being debated, this really is about so much PC nonsense.
Your point hasn't come across that way. You're right, the idea is what matters. But would you accept a present wrapped in toilet paper smeared with feces? Language is the wrapping of an idea with terms that have universal differences that have been objectively assigned. You choose the proper wrapping and your idea is accepted. You wrap your idea in words that are offensive and people forget the idea and look at the words. Wrap your idea with words that attack something someone holds dear and they defend their choice. If timpearson had rephrased the question along the lines of, "I disagree with Handspring's policy of refusing to exchange a gift for something different, anyone else?" people would have had a much different response. People wouldn't have dismissed the issue as someone fuming, but rather as a potential problem for themselves sometime down the road.
quote:
If this is the question you're referring to, how hasn't it been answered?
quote:
Because there's an underlying question there: if one is going to protest "meanness", why not protest the actual "meanness" instead of the particulars of its manifestation?
I am. That's been my point from the beginning. By being "mean" he alienated his audience. By attacking Handspring he put people on the defensive and didn't elicit any positive response/change. As I said before if a Presidential candidate swears in a national debate he will not get elected, regardless of his policies.
quote:
You're arguing that the denotation of the terms "retarded", "moron", and "imbecile" are the same. This is true. The connotation of these words is different.
quote:
Connotations, by definition, cannot always be taken into account because there is not always a basis beforehand, but we've trod upon that already methinks.
Yes, we have. Connotation does play a role. A very big role. Connotation is taken into account constantly throughout a given day. And it starts early on. A child wanting to keep a lost dog will ask if he can keep the puppy. Why use the term "puppy"? It evokes a different response than "dog". Same for people trying to get someone to agree with them. I notice you haven't used any offensive words in your posts, save as reference. Why? Is it to get people to look at your ideas, rather than dismiss them and focus on your terminology?
quote:
Had timpearson chosen any of the other words he would have given a vastly different impression (he still would have put people on the defensive and would not have elicited a positive response, but he wouldn't have come across as degrading as he did). Your question has been answered, I apologize if it wasn't the answer you were hoping for.
quote:
Quite alright. I'm used to being disappointed with humanity. 
Yeah, me too.
[Edited by dick-richardson on 11-24-2000 at 01:16 AM]
__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.
|
11-21-2000 01:58 PM
Email This Page to Someone! |
Receive updates to this thread
]