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yaz320
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Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 102

quote:
Oops...thanks for noticing that and posting a reply. I missed it for some reason.

Is there any sarcasm in there???

Or is it just me...

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04-20-2001 07:52 PM

agraham999
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Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

Hey Toby,

My post is very civil. I didn't attack anyone, I didn't call anyone an idiot like some people do...I didn't even insult anyone...I only said that the PC/Mac argument is boring...(I didn't say this one is boring - it was a general statement) and why is it boring? Because I've been hearing it for at least 10 years of the 20 I've had Macs. It never goes anywhere...it never changes...and it is getting really old. Some people make great comments...but the problems is that it doesn't move the battle lines in any direction because it has nothing to do with facts anymore. This has nothing to do with anything but personal preference. For me to make a statement that a debate is dull has no reflection on those that participate...it is a statement on the argument itself...like discussing who is better, The Beatles or the Rolling Stones? You can't make factual statements on preference. Each platform has it's benefits and detractions. I use both. I prefer Macs. I think Macs are better in construction, function, design, speed and efficiency. I can back that up with tons of data...20 years of it. Guess what...it won't change anyones mind. You buy what you buy because you like it...and it doesn't matter if I want a Titanium or a Vaio...as long as I get my work done.

I've seen people call people ignorant (a harmless word but with harsh connotations), I have heard people call others idiots, stupid, jerks...I've never done that. I never said all of you are idiots for arguing this...I don't stoop to those levels. My statement in the beginning of my post doesn't detract at all from my closing. My statement is an opinion...and it is a broad generalization about the whole topic...not this thread.

I can say one fact...that the PC/Mac debate always turns ugly. I don't care what site it pops up on...but everybody starts out nice...and it all goes down hill after that. FACT! So yeah...boring argument...because it never really goes anywhere except to get people all pissed at each other. With all the rhetoric that goes on...I am surprised I don't see people beating the crap out of each other in CompUSA.

You know what I would like to see is a discussion of what we DO with our computers.

BTW...lennonhead...you are absolutely right...the consumer doesn't need a high end system...and Macs can do amazing things off the shelf. I just wanted to clarify the difference between what it can and cannnot do.

Oh and...Macs are better than PCs.

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04-20-2001 08:17 PM

timmins
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 276

CompUSA is overpriced. Similar to other company's products.

Sorry, I wanted to laugh this afternoon. I retract my comment.

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04-20-2001 08:27 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by yaz320
Is there any sarcasm in there???

Or is it just me...

Must just be you. There was no sarcasm. I didn't notice dick's question (he posted twice in a row, and I only caught the second post).

04-20-2001 08:30 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by agraham999
My post is very civil.

blah blah blah

Whatever[0].

quote:
I didn't attack anyone, I didn't call anyone an idiot like some people do...

blah blah blah

Whatever[0].

quote:
I didn't even insult anyone...

blah blah blah

Whatever[0].

quote:
I only said that the PC/Mac argument is boring... [...]

Yes, and you started it off in a rather rude way. Look, I'm not saying that you're not entitled to think the debate is boring. I'm not even saying that you're not entitled to tell people off about it. What I am saying, though, is that when you decry the lack of civil and respectful debate while initiating a post in that manner, it comes off as rather hollow and hypocritical. Now, you can feel free to rationalize it away by saying "well I'm not calling people idiots like <so-and-so> is" all you like, but this is a rather weak argument, IMO.

[0] Now, do you really consider that civil and respectful debate? I don't.

04-20-2001 08:49 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

Toby:

Chill.

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04-20-2001 09:48 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by homer
Toby:

Chill.

homer:

I was never heated. Just pointing out a position that seemed logically inconsistent, that's all. Alan finds the PC vs. Mac debate boring. I find the old "be civil and respectful" debate boring, and even moreso when not presented in a civil and respectful manner. <insert obligatory Monty Python quotes about repression>

04-20-2001 10:00 PM

agraham999
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

I think one thing that often gets people so upset in these arguments is that we are communicating in a forum where even with emoticons, you can't really get a sense of the other person without hearing inflection and seeing body language.

A year ago I had three PCs. I am down to one PC and two Macs. Soon...there will be no PCs. After five years of configuration difficulties, problems with Windows, dll issues, uninstall problems, and incompatible software and hardware...I just got fed up. One day the network would run...the next the printer was down. USB, PC cards, webcams...I had just waaaay toooo many problems. Yeah...I pay a little more for the Macs. But the time it saves me is worth every penny. Once my Appletalk network was up over TCP/IP...and I got my proxy server running on the iMac...I've had no problems at all. It all works fine...and it works everyday.

I haven't had any issues to deal with...but I still have problems with that damn PC (top of the line Dell). I tried hooking up a new USB printer the other day...two hours...still doesn't work...drivers installed...all checks out...but she just won't talk to it. Same printer which is compatible with the Mac...plug it in...no problem. Decided to get a PostScript color Laser and dump the Dell, the HP 1100 laser with scanner, print server and color inkjet. I want it all gone.

I do miss some of my PC equipment...but I don't miss the hassel. OS X is running smooth with the other machine running OS 9.1...and even netowrked to the PC...but I just can't wait to ditch it and have an all Mac system...wireless.

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04-20-2001 10:09 PM

agraham999
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 134

Toby,

Open your parachute.

Just kidding!

Let's just let it go and move on....k? This is getting even more off-topic in this off-topic topic. I'm not interested in taking this further...down the road...cause this is headed exactly where I'd like to avoid. Agree to disagree...and just be good forum pals.

"Run away!" <insert obligatory Monty Python and the Holy Grail reference.>

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04-20-2001 10:18 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by agraham999
Let's just let it go and move on....k?

Not sure what you mean here. I'm not upset with you or anything. IMO, the way to "move on" would be to not replicate the behavior.

quote:
This is getting even more off-topic in this off-topic topic. I'm not interested in taking this further...down the road...cause this is headed exactly where I'd like to avoid. Agree to disagree...and just be good forum pals.

It has nothing to do with being "pals" or "enemies". It's not my fault I have green blood. STR.

04-20-2001 10:45 PM

lennonhead
Member

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 517

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
It's not my fault I have green blood.

Do you happen to have pointy ears too? Damn Vulcans with their lack of emotion

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04-20-2001 10:57 PM

dalamar70
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 200

Getting back to the original topic, I just noticed that Apple's pricing for upgrades is pretty high. We can ignore the base model pricing for now, but in comparing the "Fast" and "Faster" G4 cubes on the Apple Store page, the hardware difference seems to be exactly:

1. 128MB RAM instead of 64MB (1 DIMM)
2. CD-RW instead of DVD (no idea what the speeds are)

But the price difference is $300. At Dell, the price difference is a total of $139 -- $60 for the extra PC133 (dunno if it's one or two DIMMS), and $69 to go from a 16x DVD to a 12/8/32 CD-RW.

Also I have to say that Flower Power iMacs look much better in pictures on the web than in person at CompUSA...

04-22-2001 04:55 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by yaz320

Good God man!!! Klipsch make the best PC speakers...can you say 400 watts of power?

Go to www.maximumpc.com and EVERYONE there is crazy about them.

http://206.57.19.206/FMPro?-db=maxp...3507&-find=

It received a "Kick Ass 10"

That review was made in January of 2000 when they first came out. Klipsch has recently redone the speakers...adding a headphone jack, tweaked the internal wiring, upgraded the sound by adding a new decoder, and MaximumPC reviewed them again...

Another "Kick Ass 10"

Klipsch make GREAT if not THE BEST speakers for PC and Stereos....

www.klipsch.com

You need to get up to speed!

Thanks for the link, yaz.

Well, all in all this has been a pretty interesting thread. But I think it's gone on long enough. So we'll end it. Macs are better for whatever you need them for. Period.

Oh, dalamar. I think we've agreed that Apples prices are high, with or without upgrades. They need to add more RAM to all their offerings, too.

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Last edited by dick-richardson on 04-23-2001 at 01:38 AM

04-22-2001 09:55 PM

yaz320
Member

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 102

Why should I go out and spend a thousand bucks on an iMac when I can go to Wal Mart and get some trash bags for a buck???

04-22-2001 10:23 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

Why should I go out and spend a thousand bucks on an iMac when I can go to Wal Mart and get some trash bags for a buck???

Well, I've found trash bags to be rather unreliable. Yes, you do get a lot more storage space with the trash bags, but they are a PAIN to back up. They also tend to need an upgrade every few months, as the plastic draw-ties tend to stretch and fail.

That and I have yet to find a trash bad that looks as good on my desktop as an iMac. But that's just my opinion.

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04-22-2001 11:30 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by homer

Well, I've found trash bags to be rather unreliable. Yes, you do get a lot more storage space with the trash bags, but they are a PAIN to back up. They also tend to need an upgrade every few months, as the plastic draw-ties tend to stretch and fail.

That and I have yet to find a trash bad that looks as good on my desktop as an iMac. But that's just my opinion.

You forgot to mention the potential suffocation issue that you just don't have to worry about with a mac.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

04-23-2001 12:04 AM

dalamar70
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 200

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

I think we've agreed that Apples prices are high, with or without upgrades. They need to add more RAM to all their offerings, too.

I don't think anyone agreed on the "intangible" value of an Apple, from the style to iMovie to OS X to the value of "Think Different," or on the exact performance differences for different apps.

I'd actually prefer if they DIDN'T add more RAM, since they would charge through the nose for it. Much cheaper to pick up some memory on my own.

04-23-2001 06:14 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by dalamar70

I don't think anyone agreed on the "intangible" value of an Apple, from the style to iMovie to OS X to the value of "Think Different," or on the exact performance differences for different apps.

I'd actually prefer if they DIDN'T add more RAM, since they would charge through the nose for it. Much cheaper to pick up some memory on my own.

Okay, high compared to pc on paper for the initial cost. With regard to memory, the whole idea for them to add more memory would be to:
1. bring memory costs down (if their only buying 256 chips and just throwing another one in for the high end, they don't have to try and predict the market).
2. so as not to have to spend more to begin with.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

04-23-2001 06:32 AM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:
1. bring memory costs down (if their only buying 256 chips and just throwing another one in for the high end, they don't have to try and predict the market).

The memory market fluctuates immensly. Apple keeps a pretty high profit margin on memory to account for the times the prices go way up. That said, they do need to increase the BASE amount of memory in the machines, but I don't think they need to lower the prices of add-on memory...it is ALWAYS cheaper to purchase memory after the fact...on a PC or a Mac.

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04-23-2001 01:19 PM