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Help! Help! Prism v. Edge? Return or not?


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Topic: Help! Help! Prism v. Edge? Return or not? Pages (3): « 1 2 [3]

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
[...] It's multimedia features leave something to be desired, but that isn't going to be a major consideration for me unless I'm missing out on something functionally practical because of it.

Well, multimedia isn't really a big issue for me either (which is why I'm looking at the 610 instead of the 760).

quote:
I have no idea where the market is moving (i.e. towared multimedia - a la clie, or wireless - a la treo), so I'm not going to commit money to either at this point.

Well, the only thing that concerns me about the CLIEs is the _way_ that they offer software upgrades (at least they have the capability).

quote:
IOW, whether you use it for several years or not is largely dependant on you.

Partly, but there are issues that come up where not having an upgrade path can become an issue, e.g. VFS and associated software that uses its functionality. When I wind up selling my Edge, my Memplug will have to be sold as well, since it'll be useless to my wife with her Deluxe. Of course, she will probably be going to something else as soon as she can as well since she's starting to have case cracks around the power button and she's out of warranty.

12-04-2001 06:19 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Partly, but there are issues that come up where not having an upgrade path can become an issue

True. However, almost every device has an upgrade path (m50x has flash ram and SD/MMC slot, visors have springboard, clie have mem stick and flash ram - albeit a rather draconian method of implementation, handera's have cf and SD and flash - even the original PalmPilots had a removable memory card). And every device has it's perks - sony's high res, handera's voice playback and high res, Palm's vibrating alarm and bundled software, HS's OS tweaks (datebook+, city time, 1 sec hotsync capabilities). I wouldn't worry too much about the future. It's too much of a crap shoot trying to predict which desireable functionality will match with which feature of which device.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

12-04-2001 08:22 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
True. However, almost every device has an upgrade path (m50x has flash ram and SD/MMC slot, visors have springboard, clie have mem stick and flash ram - albeit a rather draconian method of implementation, handera's have cf and SD and flash - even the original PalmPilots had a removable memory card). And every device has it's perks - sony's high res, handera's voice playback and high res, Palm's vibrating alarm and bundled software, HS's OS tweaks (datebook+, city time, 1 sec hotsync capabilities). I wouldn't worry too much about the future. It's too much of a crap shoot trying to predict which desireable functionality will match with which feature of which device.

Yes, but the key difference between most of those and Handspring is that the others are _releasing_ updates. Handspring supposedly can update via the springboard, but they've yet to actually release a significant update.

12-04-2001 08:36 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Yes, but the key difference between most of those and Handspring is that the others are _releasing_ updates. Handspring supposedly can update via the springboard, but they've yet to actually release a significant update.

So put a picture of a handera, clie, and m50x of your choice on a dartboard. The largest picture is the one you want - buy it and don't look back. You're guaranteed a year of supported-ness and another where it's still functional - regardless of model. If something comes out in the meantime that you just can't live without, well, you obviously won't be able to live without it.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

12-04-2001 10:24 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
So put a picture of a handera, clie, and m50x of your choice on a dartboard. The largest picture is the one you want - buy it and don't look back. You're guaranteed a year of supported-ness and another where it's still functional - regardless of model. If something comes out in the meantime that you just can't live without, well, you obviously won't be able to live without it.

I'm not looking for randomness. I'm looking for the one that will serve my short term needs the best while still having options in the future _without_ having to get a whole new unit. Even something like the Neo would probably meet the former, but I've yet to see Handspring even consider the latter.

12-05-2001 03:17 PM

dkessler
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Yes, but the key difference between most of those and Handspring is that the others are _releasing_ updates. Handspring supposedly can update via the springboard, but they've yet to actually release a significant update.

This expectation that you can upgrade to a newer version of PalmOS via a Springboard module keeps popping up from time to time. I guess it stems from this question in Handspring's Visor FAQ:

quote:
Q. What about a Flash OS?

A. The Handspring Visor Deluxe supports upgrades to the operating system (OS) via Springboard modules and software patches. We do not use "flash" memory to store the OS for several reasons: 1) we are fully upgradeable via Springboard modules and software patches, 2) the vast majority of users will never need to completely rewrite the entire OS in memory, 3) "flash" memory is more costly and complex than "read-only memory" (ROM). We continually evaluate the best technologies for our products and will include those that provide clear benefits to our customers. To see the current differences in the built-in Visor OS and the Palm OS® release, click here.

I don't think that Handspring meant to imply that you could replace the entire OS with a newer version via Springboard modules (though they could have been a lot clearer on this point). What they meant is that modules have the ability to add new features or upgrade existing features of the OS. The FlashPlus CF adapter module is a prime example of this. When you plug in the module, it adds a PalmOS 4.x compatible VFSManager to your Visor's OS (even Visors with OS 3.1). IHMO that's a very significant OS upgrade via a Springboard module

Note that Handspring never said that *they* had any plans to release OS upgrades via Springboard modules. And in fact their FAQ answer reiterates that they don't believe most users will ever need a complete OS upgrade. Whether that's right or wrong, the fact is that from day one, HS has been saying that they don't think Visor owners need complete OS upgrades so it should come as no surprise that none exist. And, I think it's pretty safe to say that there won't be any in the future.

__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

12-05-2001 05:14 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by dkessler
This expectation that you can upgrade to a newer version of PalmOS via a Springboard module keeps popping up from time to time.

Yes, I've addressed it countless times here when it's been brought up. Wonder why it keeps being brought up? Maybe because it can be a real issue?

quote:
I guess it stems from this question in Handspring's Visor FAQ:

Incidentally, that particular FAQ has been modified several times since the release of the initial release of the Visor. Regardless, my complaint is not about the lack of Flash ROM. More on that in a sec...

quote:
I don't think that Handspring meant to imply that you could replace the entire OS with a newer version via Springboard modules (though they could have been a lot clearer on this point).

I don't think they meant that either.

quote:
What they meant is that modules have the ability to add new features or upgrade existing features of the OS.

I agree that's what they meant in this particular case. However, their original FAQ also addressed the fact that even though the Visor didn't have Flash ROM, it could still have RAM resident patches to upgrade the functionality. However, as time passed, it became clear that Handspring either didn't have the willingness or didn't have the funds to pursue this course of action other than in clear cases of defective functionality.

quote:
The FlashPlus CF adapter module is a prime example of this. When you plug in the module, it adds a PalmOS 4.x compatible VFSManager to your Visor's OS (even Visors with OS 3.1). IHMO that's a very significant OS upgrade via a Springboard module

Yes it is, however, it is also dependent on third parties for support.

quote:
Note that Handspring never said that *they* had any plans to release OS upgrades via Springboard modules.

Nor did I claim they did. However, at one time, they most certainly _did_ say that they would provide RAM-resident upgrades for new functionality.

quote:
And in fact their FAQ answer reiterates that they don't believe most users will ever need a complete OS upgrade.

And in fact that FAQ has changed a few times as their policy and outlook have changed. Unfortunately, since it's a webpage, there is no way to _prove_ it.

quote:
Whether that's right or wrong, the fact is that from day one, HS has been saying that they don't think Visor owners need complete OS upgrades so it should come as no surprise that none exist.

They definitely have _not_ had that stance since day one.

quote:
And, I think it's pretty safe to say that there won't be any in the future.

Well, I think that's pretty safe to say as well, which is why I'm looking elsewhere at the moment.

12-05-2001 06:41 PM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
I'm not looking for randomness. I'm looking for the one that will serve my short term needs the best while still having options in the future _without_ having to get a whole new unit. Even something like the Neo would probably meet the former, but I've yet to see Handspring even consider the latter.

Amazon rated the m500 the best PalmOS pda on the market. They weren't too impressed with the m505, either. If color isn't a big deal to you, I'll put a plug in for my current unit.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

12-06-2001 03:30 AM

dick-richardson
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 2531

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
...there is no way to _prove_ it.

Except by sheer numbers. I remember that implication quite well. I was very interested in the flash RAM debate when I purchased my deluxe. One of my arguments at the time was that the OS could be updated regardless of flash. Interestingly enough, it seems Palm has a much better track record for releasing patches than handspring.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

12-06-2001 03:38 AM

dnottingham
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Titusville, Fl --- AKA: Star City USA
Posts: 27

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
And in fact that FAQ has changed a few times as their policy and outlook have changed. Unfortunately, since it's a webpage, there is no way to _prove_ it.

Actually you might be able to buy going here:

Internet Archive

12-06-2001 11:35 AM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Amazon rated the m500 the best PalmOS pda on the market. They weren't too impressed with the m505, either. If color isn't a big deal to you, I'll put a plug in for my current unit.

For grayscale, I'm not sure if I would bother with anything other than a Handera.

12-06-2001 02:11 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Except by sheer numbers. I remember that implication quite well. I was very interested in the flash RAM debate when I purchased my deluxe. One of my arguments at the time was that the OS could be updated regardless of flash.

This was also one of Handspring's arguments as well. Thanks to dnottingham reminding me of the Wayback Machine that I saw on TechTV, there's also a bit of substantiation possible...
http://web.archive.org/web/20000619...isorfaq.asp#q11
http://web.archive.org/web/20001205...ml;#upgradingA1
After comparing those to Handspring's current answers, it's even sadder how their stance has gone from 'New OSes aren't an issue because we can give you a patch that'll let you run any available Palm software' to 'You don't need that new OS because it's only to use hardware differences and if that program you want isn't compatible with what we have, find something else to use'.