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VC awards: "Memplug OWNS the market"???


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dvIceT
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 152

Re: Just an additional plug for FlashAdapter

quote:
Originally posted by DJHarkavy
While the Matchboxdrive and its cousins are not springboards, they should be eligible for the award, which was not for SPRINGBOARD storage solution of the year, but merely storage solution of the year. This, however is secondary to the biased and untrue comment about 'owns the market.'

I have a 2 MB Visor. I couldn't even HOPE to use a Memplug. In fact, according to an article at Visor Central, (SmartMedia versus CompactFlash versus Springboard Flash Memory by Scott Hanselman
http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-4-89-1-4.htm)

"Due to limitations in the Palm OS, AutoCF and PiDirect only work on PalmOS 3.5 devices which is a huge bummer. I've talked to developers at Portable Innovation and believe me, it's not that they don't want to make a PalmOS 3.1 solution, it apparently isn't physically possible."

At the time that I read this, I was (and still am) using a 32 MB CF card and reading doc files off of it using FAFilemover. The first Beta Version of VFSHelper, allowing the use of VFS based launchers from the CF card was less than 3 weeks away. Pretty good for something that 'isn't physically possible'

Lets get objective in our reviews, and leave the marketing to the sales department.

I'm not sure why you "couldn't even HOPE to use a Memplug." Both the MemPlug SM and MemPlug CF work fine in my PalmOS 3.1 Visor Deluxe. A Solo will work equally well within the constraints of its 2M memory.

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that the Memplug in either its SM or CF form has less functionality than the Flashadapter family of CF adapters but from what I can tell, they are basically equivalent in functionality. The "AutoCF and PiDirect" functionality mentioned in the quote are indeed not available to PalmOS 3.1 Visors, but this is equally true of the Flashadapter family of CF adapters. Both the Memplug and Flashadapters have the ability to copy, move, and backup files from and to the external memory card. Both have VFS support.

Let's not put down a quality product (either the Memplug or Flashplus), especially with misinformation.

09-29-2001 07:17 AM

DJHarkavy
Member

Registered: Sep 2001
Location:
Posts: 3

> I'm not sure why you "couldn't even HOPE to use a Memplug." Both
> the MemPlug SM and MemPlug CF work fine in my PalmOS 3.1 Visor
> Deluxe. A Solo will work equally well within the constraints of its
> 2M memory.

If that is the case, then I was mistaken.

I got the information from their own literature, and the quotes here at visor central.

And I can launch programs, using Kopsis VFS, from my RAM, with all their data, just like the AutoCF and PiDirect would have me do.

> Let's not put down a quality product (either the Memplug or
> Flashplus), especially with misinformation.

You are right. I should have checked the most recent Memplug info, instead of relying on Visor Central's report. After all, I know their information is has been shown to be inaccurate in the past.

__________________
Dan H.

09-29-2001 11:21 AM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by alexmathew
OR how about this lets limit the market to Visor Deluxe's and we can say the Flashadapter "owns" the market - 100% :-)

Except that the category (on my browser anyway) says "Storage Module of the Year". This implies (to me) that only springboard modules should count. This universe would contain the flash modules of the three sizes (2, 8, and 16MB), the MemPlug, and the FlashPlus (unless there are some others of which I'm not aware). Out of these, the FlashPlus and the MemPlug are undoubtedly the 'coolest' since they have capacities only limited by the size of the expansion card.

quote:
On the previous comment...

is not what we are arguing about the quote was :

the "storage revolution" is rather a loose term and so is the "owns the market" comment!

That may have been what you were arguing about, but considering that the comment was quoted in the context of a "Storage Module of the Year" review, there were some invalid points being raised about the statement. If you want to say that the MemPlug doesn't 'own the market' because there are far more FlashPluses out there, that would be valid (since they would both be eligible in this context for 'the market'). However, the comment has been refuted because MatchBookDrives are 'better' and other such things.

09-29-2001 02:12 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Re: Just an additional plug for FlashAdapter

quote:
Originally posted by DJHarkavy
While the Matchboxdrive and its cousins are not springboards, they should be eligible for the award, which was not for SPRINGBOARD storage solution of the year, but merely storage solution of the year.

Again, the article I read was for "Storage Module of the Year", which implies springboard module and not springboard to CF adapters.

quote:
This, however is secondary to the biased and untrue comment about 'owns the market.'

Unless you are sure that you have defined 'the market' in the same context, you really don't have adequate basis to start calling people liars.

quote:
I have a 2 MB Visor. I couldn't even HOPE to use a Memplug. In fact, according to an article at Visor Central, (SmartMedia versus CompactFlash versus Springboard Flash Memory by Scott Hanselman
http://www.visorcentral.com/page/0-4-89-1-4.htm)

"Due to limitations in the Palm OS, AutoCF and PiDirect only work on PalmOS 3.5 devices which is a huge bummer. I've talked to developers at Portable Innovation and believe me, it's not that they don't want to make a PalmOS 3.1 solution, it apparently isn't physically possible."

At the time that I read this, I was (and still am) using a 32 MB CF card and reading doc files off of it using FAFilemover. The first Beta Version of VFSHelper, allowing the use of VFS based launchers from the CF card was less than 3 weeks away. Pretty good for something that 'isn't physically possible'

You could do the same thing with a MemPlug and PiMover.

quote:
Lets get objective in our reviews, and leave the marketing to the sales department.

Well, I think that it's probably a bit unfair to classify what's probably youthful exuberance and hyperbole as subjective marketing.

09-29-2001 02:22 PM

dampeoples
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 832

Apparently Toby gets up earlier than I do and shares my same feelings, it was a review, the memplug won, get over it.

09-29-2001 02:37 PM

DJHarkavy
Member

Registered: Sep 2001
Location:
Posts: 3

quote:
Originally posted by dampeoples
Apparently Toby gets up earlier than I do and shares my same feelings, it was a review, the memplug won, get over it.

If that were all there is to it, I wouldn't have bothered to write in the first place.

But ALL the articles on the Memplug in VisorCentral either say, or imply, that there is nothing like it out there. It treats Memplug as if there was no other way to access CF modules on a Visor.

This is blatantly untrue, and overlooks a significant, albeit probably smaller market. And denies credit to a company (Kopsis) who is extremely responsive and hardworking in improving its software product.

I couldn't care less who won the award. From what I have heard, Memplug IS a fine product. I just object to the idea that there aren't others.

__________________
Dan H.

09-29-2001 03:14 PM

hxh167
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Penn State
Posts: 116

quote:
Originally posted by volcanopele

Kopsis was certainly the pioneer of VFS and card memory storage for the Visor, but PIT has certainly taken that concept one step further.

Jason

Could you tell me how come Memplug took the concept a step further? An adapter with flash memory? It's long existed idea before them. PiDirect? MSMount came out before it. PiViewer? JPGView already surpass its quality. Sure, PiViewer can be used on a VDX but its quality is laughable. VFS? Memplug even argued VFS is not necessary for users. There are a lot jokes out there you can find.

09-29-2001 03:19 PM

dampeoples
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 832

"But ALL the articles on the Memplug in VisorCentral either say, or imply, that there is nothing like it out there. It treats Memplug as if there was no other way to access CF modules on a Visor. "

The FlashPlus WON HONORABLE MENTION. Isn't this enough?

09-29-2001 03:23 PM

hxh167
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Penn State
Posts: 116

quote:
Originally posted by dampeoples

""MemPlug owns the market" is both untrue and uncalled for. "

Do YOU have any proof? It was one reviewer's opinion, if you feel differently, please, set up a poll for people to vote, like volcanopele says..

Why does he need to provide a proof? If the editors cannot back it up, any reader has the right to question them. Are you giving out the hint that VisorCentral doesn't need any credibility? I DO have some doubts on their credibility since this is not the first "incident".

09-29-2001 03:27 PM

dampeoples
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 832

My whole entire point is, it was a reviewers opinion, hence the italics. I didn't read anywhere in the VC review stating that the Memplug was anything but the winner. I don't see an entire community attacking anyone else on their views, fact or opinion.

09-29-2001 03:34 PM

Thunderbird291
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 447

Hey, guys! Micheal likes the Memplug better! Get over it! Some people are taking it like a personal attack.

Memplug won the award because it combined VFS Backup, JPG viewing, AutoCF, gmovie media, and File Mover together in ONE module with FLASH. Sure, you can get a Flashplus, donwload Backup buddy VFS, JPG Viewer, MS Mount, gMovie player and gMovie converter and load them all on your Visor. But, that will cost you money, time, and precious RAM. The Memplug gives you ALL that without costing RAM (or much, anyway).

09-29-2001 03:37 PM

JHromadka
VisorCentral Staff

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

quote:
Originally posted by dampeoples
My whole entire point is, it was a reviewers opinion, hence the italics. I didn't read anywhere in the VC review stating that the Memplug was anything but the winner. I don't see an entire community attacking anyone else on their views, fact or opinion.

Exactly. I didn't see this thread earlier, so I'll paste in my response to the overal VC Awards thread in the Articles forum:

quote:

Pehaps the hyperbole factor is a little high, but the comments that Michael Ducker made are in the form of opinion about the award winner.

Both the MemPlug and FlashPlus are great products. That is why you see them both on the award page. As it stands right now the MemPlug has a few more features, but Kopsis is by no means dead in the water -- heck it started the storage market for the Visor. The great thing about updatable modules is that new features can be added in the future. Look at the Thinmodem. There will be plenty of healthy competition.

I think a full-blown faceoff article is a great idea for a future article and will look into it.

Don't forget that the awards are not over. We may have a few surprises for you yet.

__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend

09-29-2001 03:54 PM

hxh167
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Penn State
Posts: 116

Memplug DOES work on a VDX or Solo. But then Kopsis wins hands down on all softwares they both have and useful on a VDX.If MatchBookDrive is not qualified for the Award, then why in the first place VisorCentral let us discuss it in this section? Should MatchBookDrive listed in the accessory section? I read a lot funny and weird arguments in this thread. It's good to see how funny people can go.

09-29-2001 04:00 PM

hxh167
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Penn State
Posts: 116

quote:
Originally posted by Thunderbird291

Memplug won the award because it combined VFS Backup, JPG viewing, AutoCF, gmovie media, and File Mover together in ONE module with FLASH. Sure, you can get a Flashplus, download Backup buddy VFS, JPG Viewer, MS Mount, gMovie player and gMovie converter and load them all on your Visor. But, that will cost you money, time, and precious RAM. The Memplug gives you ALL that without costing RAM (or much, anyway).

Their Backup is NOT VFS related. the AutoCF function (AKA PiDirect) costs extra and cannot be used on a VDX or Solo. I would rather get a quality product at some cost rather than get a useless product with lots more features(this actually cost me more in the end). I should have learned this lesson long time ago. There are countless examples in PC industry.

BTW, with Kopsis's newest flash memory manager(to put your own softwares on the flash memory of FlashPlus), you can put much more useful softwares on flash than Memplug has. This is just for your information to let people know FlashPlus can actually do more.

09-29-2001 04:15 PM

volcanopele
Member

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 366

quote:
Originally posted by hxh167

Their Backup is NOT VFS related. the AutoCF function (AKA PiDirect) costs extra and cannot be used on a VDX or Solo. I would rather get a quality product at some cost rather than get a useless product with lots more features(this actually cost me more in the end). I should have learned this lesson long time ago. There are countless examples in PC industry.

BTW, with Kopsis's newest flash memory manager(to put your own softwares on the flash memory of FlashPlus), you can put much more useful softwares on flash than Memplug has. This is just for your information to let people know FlashPlus can actually do more.

True their backup is not VFS related, but it is just as good. I have never had problems backing up and restoring. True, PiDirect doesn't work with VDX or Solo. For VDX and Solo, I do recommned FlashPlus. However, even without PiDirect, MemPlug is not useless with VDX and Solo. With Launcher III, one can fashion a very good alternative. Launcher III allows you to place programs in the /Palm/Launcher directory of the card AND it does it from within the launcher, therby bypassing having to use some kind of file mover program. True, Launcher III copies programs from the card to RAM when you run them and deletes them from RAM when you exit them. However, I am beginning to sense that this is the only alternative for FlashPlus as well for VDX and Solo. Finally, with PiVFSMgr, you can place VFS-ready data files on the card. Speed needs to improve on almost every program that uses it but that for the most part is trivial.

Another note, PIT released last week a flush version of Memplug CF and hopefully a flush version of Memplug SM is not to far behind.

I can see the usefulness of some flash space on the adapter but since I only have one SM card, I wouldn't benefit.

Jason

09-29-2001 05:08 PM

Uncle Roger
Member

Registered: May 2001
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posts: 90

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
The catch, of course, is that Dave's original design and several commercial products which soon followed were not springboards.

True enough. The original Innopocket and the Matchbook drives are not true Springboards. The FlashPlus, however, is, and is what won honorable mention. Personally, I think it should have won the award (with MemPlug getting HM), but that's my own personal experience (I own both.)

What I and others are unhappy about is the claim that MemPlug "owns" the market -- as if the FlashPlus wasn't worth bothering with. Even if they have a bigger market share, that's like saying McDonald's "owns" the hamburger market, even though Joe's Cable Car (Silver & Mission, San Francisco) makes a much better burger. But even though McD's sells a lot more burgers than anyone else, they aren't the only game in town. Neither is MemPlug the only storage solution. They don't "own" the market.

A lot more desktop computers are sold with Windows than MacOS, Linux, or anything else, but I still wouldn't say M$ owns the desktop OS market -- and they're a lot closer to doing so than MemPlug is to owning the visor storage module market.

09-29-2001 06:12 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by dampeoples
Apparently Toby gets up earlier than I do

Not by choice.

I had a phonecall to get a broadband access node back online, so while I was up I figured I'd check on VC.

quote:
and shares my same feelings, it was a review, the memplug won, get over it.

*shrug* I really don't have a problem with people offering criticisms of VC's choice. I'd just prefer to read well-founded criticisms. I thought Winchell's was an example of that. The FlashPlus certainly falls within the same space as the MemPlug.

09-29-2001 07:53 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by DJHarkavy
But ALL the articles on the Memplug in VisorCentral either say, or imply, that there is nothing like it out there.

In the first review of it, there was nothing else like it.

quote:
It treats Memplug as if there was no other way to access CF modules on a Visor.

What reviews or articles are you reading? The first Memplug review specifically mentions the CF solutions available at the time and links to their reviews. The later review of the Memplug CFAlso specifically mentions the same ones. Now look at the dates in the reviews. Then look at the date in the FlashPlus review. Look at the two things it still didn't have at that time compared to the Memplug at the time.

quote:
This is blatantly untrue, and overlooks a significant, albeit probably smaller market. And denies credit to a company (Kopsis) who is extremely responsive and hardworking in improving its software product.

I'd say that your statement is blatantly untrue and overlooks the reviews which show credit upon credit being heaped upon Dave Kessler's efforts.

quote:
I couldn't care less who won the award.

Me either.

quote:
From what I have heard, Memplug IS a fine product. I just object to the idea that there aren't others.

And your objections do not seem to be supported by reality.

09-29-2001 08:15 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by hxh167
Could you tell me how come Memplug took the concept a step further? An adapter with flash memory? It's long existed idea before them.

Where did a true springboard with removable media storage exist prior to the Memplug (other than the minijam which didn't have the data storage capabilities it was supposed to)?

quote:
PiDirect? MSMount came out before it.

And AutoCF predated them both.

quote:
PiViewer? JPGView already surpass its quality.

Sure it does, but PiViewer is also included at no additional cost.

quote:
Sure, PiViewer can be used on a VDX but its quality is laughable.

No more laughable than wanting to view high resolution photos on a 160x160 screen in the first place.

quote:
VFS? Memplug even argued VFS is not necessary for users. There are a lot jokes out there you can find.

They have every right to argue that it's not necessary.

09-29-2001 08:22 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Roger
What I and others are unhappy about is the claim that MemPlug "owns" the market -- as if the FlashPlus wasn't worth bothering with.

Neither his comment nor the award nor any review here says any such thing. Anyone who infers that from miradu's comments obviously should do some introspection and see if they're not overreacting just a tad.

quote:
Even if they have a bigger market share,

Can I walk into CompUSA and buy a FlashPlus? Ever consider that might be where the comment came from?

quote:
that's like saying McDonald's "owns" the hamburger market, even though Joe's Cable Car (Silver & Mission, San Francisco) makes a much better burger. But even though McD's sells a lot more burgers than anyone else, they aren't the only game in town.

Not a bad analogy. Also not very accurate to the situation. If they were the only game in town, though, then why would they have bothered with an honorable mention? Also, if I can't get to Silver & Mission, why should I care about how great Joe's hamburgers are?

quote:
Neither is MemPlug the only storage solution. They don't "own" the market.

I was going to make an analogy here, but you've made it for me...

quote:
A lot more desktop computers are sold with Windows than MacOS, Linux, or anything else, but I still wouldn't say M$ owns the desktop OS market -- and they're a lot closer to doing so than MemPlug is to owning the visor storage module market.

So if M$ doesn't own the market since there are other solutions around, GovCo should drop its anti-trust suit?

09-29-2001 08:36 PM

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