Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

Which would you buy, a MiniDisc player/recorder or the MP3 springboard, and why?

Well here's my opinion. I would go for the MiniDisc player/recorder. Just in case you aren't up to speed on the cost of these units, you can get one for just about $200 if you look around. I don't know what you have heard, but I seem to remember that the MP3 springboard would cost about that much if you wanted the 64 meg version. A minidisc player won't drain your visor batteries, and will allow you to take more than an hour's worth of music with you in the form of other minidiscs (without purchasing more expensive memory cards). Each minidisc costs about $2 if you are willing to buy about 10 of them. Plus, you can record from anything that has an audio out as long as you have the right cable. MP3 on the other hand can never skip, but almost all of the minidisc units have 40 sec shock protection, so that's not much of an issue for most people. So unless you just have to have that all-in-one unit (sometimes i'm like that--I have an iMac) I would say to go with the MiniDisc unit. I would like to see some good arguments for the MP3 unit though!
Spaceman Spiff

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

I have a MiniDisc player, and love it(I've had it for about 3 years now). The big advantage for MD is that you don't have to convert, or download the music. Also, the Visor wouldn't be able to play that much music(time). The new MD units advertise play time of up to 50 hours!!! There also so small that you would barely even notice the extra unit.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: bright side of the moon.
Posts: 996

I personally would buy the MP3 springboard for it's comparatively massive storage capabilities. c'mon, 5 hours of listening time on one set of visor batteries???

From the innogear FAQ: http://www.innogear.com/faq.htm

"Q: How long will the batteries last?

A: MiniJam gets power directly from the Springboard slot (it uses the Visor batteries). Early testing indicates that we should get about 5 to 7 hours of playtime on two AAA Visor batteries." (That's from BRAND NEW BATTERIES!!!)


BUT, 64MB of storage on CF cards!!!! i can handle that. They're saying <$100 for the springboard module and 32MB CF cards run approx. $70 online. Not bad for a possible 72MB of storage capability or (when the 64MB CF's come out) 136MB!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Hoser_in_USA (edited 03-23-2000).]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 67

I've never used a MiniDisc, so I can't argue too strongly against it, but:

1) Re compactness and convenience, even the smallest MiniDisc player won't hold a candle to an MP3 module.

2) Re playing MP3s on a MiniDisc player, do all players offer this option? I have no idea. I know you can get PCs to use MiniDiscs as storage media, but whether the portable players can play MP3s is something you'll have to enlighten us on.

3) How does the MiniDisc compare in terms of sound quality vs. 128kbps MP3? vs. 256kbps MP3? Again, I'm clueless.

4) Do MiniDisc players have a digital input, or do you have to record through an analog input? This could lead to a loss in sound quality. Do you need to buy an extra cable to do a digital transfer? For how much?

5) How rugged are MiniDisc players? My guess is you can't do any better than an MP3 player, which has no moving parts other than the controls.

My five cents.

[This message has been edited by burningyen (edited 03-23-2000).]

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Audiophiles will notice that MDs have better sound quality, but I think the average listener will find the difference negligible. I usually rip CDs to MP3 into "near CD-quality" (18:1 compression ratio; "CD quality" is 11:1), which I find acceptable for balancing quantity vs. quality. I've archived my entire CD collection on MP3 and burned everything onto 3 CD-ROMs, so I can retrieve any track I've ever owned right from my laptop. So for me, it's very efficient to have an MP3 player. But I don't think that's going to fly for the average consumer -- it's too much work. MDs are much less of a hassle.

I don't think that battery drainage is nearly as extreme with MP3 players as any player with moving parts. In VCRs, cassette player, etc., most of the power consumption comes from the motor drive, not the signal processing. So even while the Visors batteries would be pulling double duty powering the Visor and the Springboard, I expect the drainage would still be nominal compared to MD and CD players.

For many people, the choice between MD and MP3 players won't mutually exclusive. Plenty of people own turntables, and MD, CD, and cassette players. If you already have MP3s in you hard drive, it would be nice to have an external player that fits right into your Visor.

I'm curious to see if the MP3 modules will support file exchange via IR. Now that would be a killer app.

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 65

I was looking at getting a portable mp3 player. The cost of the player is close to that of the MD player/recorder. But it's the media that killed me. I'm unsure of the exact cost, but a 64MB card was ~$100. You can get 5 74-minute MDs for $12.99 That was the selling point for me.

Yes, MD's have digital and analog in (plus a mic in). And with mine, I had to buy the $12 optical cable.

As far as sound quality, MD wins against 128k mp3's. I'm sure 256k would be neck-and-neck. I'm somewhat of an audiophile, but it is easily noticeable.

My MD player/recorder can go for about 12-15 hours on two AA batteries. You can pick up two NiMH batteries at Radio Shack for ~$10 and recharge them with the player itself. The battery life is a little less that way, about 10-12 hours.

As far as ruggedness, I haven't had a problem. But then again, I haven't thrown it against a wall to see how it holds up Mine only has 10sec Anti-skip memory, but I haven't had a problem with that either. And I tend to carry it in my pocket while I'm at work.

And remember, you can name individual tracks and discs.

The only major downside to MD is the transfer speed. You have to record MD's in realtime (unless you want to spend a ****load on that new one that can record at 4x). MP3z either transfer on serial (still faster than MD) or USB (~4x faster than serial if I remember correctly).

That's my $2.50 worth.

OEP

Registered: Sep 1999
Location:
Posts: 81

Due to the fact that all of my music is already in MP3 form, I'd have to go for the MP3 player, especially since it'll go with my cool Visor! Maybe someone should come up with a MD Springboard so we could all have what we want.

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8

Are you a Sony rep of somesort? Sony's been trying to push this format for the past couple of years and it hasn't really taken off. MiniDisc vs MP3 is like comparing apples and oranges, isn't it? Both are fruits, but they each have completely different flavors and textures.

I would go with MP3, only because that seems to be the winner in digital music distribution. In some regards, I agree that MiniDisc has some technical advantages. But may be like the beta vs VHS debate, and we'll know who won there.

Sometimes the technology doesn't win out in the end. Sony and IBM will both tell you this. Both have had great products, but in the end it's what has the best marketing and overall acceptance.

In this case, however, it's hard to compare the two because it's not like comparing disc technology to another disc technology.

What you need is for Sony to come out with a MiniDisc player than can also save and play MP3's in some type of memory. Given how Sony officially feels (via industry statements) about MP3, it's questionable how much support they will throw towards it.

Good luck.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 14

I would be really interested in a MD springboard, especially if it had its own batteries. There's a new portable cd player coming out that plays mp3's and cd-rw's. I'd use that mostly, but the md springboard would be nice going to class or whatever. BTW, that cd player can be found at http://www.mambox.com .

BlueAidan

------------------
Never eat yellow snow.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

In response to d_ander:
No, I'm not a Sony rep, just a very satisfied customer (in fact I have a Sharp MD unit)
Hoser_in_USA:
You can record 74 min on a minidisc (148 mono). Discs cost about $2 each...so it's much cheaper if you don't have a laptop that you can carry all your MP3's on. (If you did have a laptop and carried it around with you, why would you even want a MP3 player?)
Burningyen:
If you want to put MP3 on a minidisc, all you have to do is get the correct cable (depending on whether you have digital out or plain old analog out) and then play your MP3 while recording on a MiniDisc. I get about 10 hours on a rechargable Li-ion battery that came with my unit. If you add the battery pack (1 AA) then you get an extra 6 hours. True, a minidisc player can't be any smaller than the disc itself, but my unit fits comfortably in my pocket and i hardly even notice it.
I'll respond to more questions later.
Spaceman Spiff

[This message has been edited by spacemanspiff22 (edited 03-25-2000).]

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 406

I went for the Rio PMP300 because I already had a very large MP3 Collection (3+ Gigs) . The Springboard MP3 Player didn't really interest me because it would have cost about $50 more than a stand alone unit (a Rio PMP300 with a 32MB Smartmedia card). Which doesn't make sense at all (since all the display information and buttons are on the visor's screen, not hardware). I guess people are interested in them because they just have to have something to fill that gap in the back of their visor. Personally I'm going to get a SIXPAK, and possible a Dictionary Module down the road. Also, a Visor MP3 Player is not nearly as rugged as a stand alone unit, and I wouldn't want to take my Visor EVERYWHERE I go..

Registered: Mar 2000
Location:
Posts: 27

I went with the Rio 500. This is a great product. It is sleek, light and very very small. It only takes one AA battery which lasts 9 hours +. It also has 64mb memory with a smart media slot and because of the USB transfer it is a snap to change songs. I run with the Rio in my pocket so the no skip design is ideal. I'm sorry if I sound like a sales rep for Diamond, but I'm just trying to give those wishing to buy the mp3 springboard another alternative. The springboard is a good idea, but I would only go for it if it were under $200 for a 64mb unit. After all you can't really use the unit when it is not tethered to the visor because it will have no display.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 22

Exactly...I could see getting a MP3 player if i already had tons of MP3s. Oh and btw d_ander, in Japan, minidisc is just as common as cassette tape. Almost everyone has one. The prices are just starting to break the $200 barrier and i think that more people will start buying them. At my school, there are 4 people with minidisc players. Now tons of people say that they are going to buy one, because they say that they thought MiniDisc players were too expensive.
And another thing...if you are concerned about the size of the unit, why would you want a MP3 springboard anyway? I mean you have to have the whole Visor AND the MP3 springboard (at least until they get a battery pack for the MP3 springboard, and still, it doesn't have a display, just little buttons.) If you really need something so microscopic, get a stand alone unit and enjoy the extra time you will get through your visor batteries.
Unfortunately, I dont have anything with a digital out, so i'm stuck with analog recording until i can scrape up the cash. But it sounds fine to me. I can tell the difference between MD and CD, but its not a very big difference. I have recorded one CD digitally into a MD at my friend's house and it sounds perfect. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference except that i can see the headphone cable going into my MD player.
I know i've mentioned this before, but the MD unit that I have has a rechargable li-ion, and a battery pack. If i'm on a trip and the li-ion goes out, i can just use the battery pack. I get 6 hours on a AA (not too bad, compared to Rio MP3-9 hours).
I think that some springboards are a really good idea, but when it comes to music players, you can buy stand alone units that are cheaper and dont drain your visor batteries. And if you want to use the MP3 springboard while using the Sixpak, well you'll have to buy an extra battery pack, making it even more expensive.

Spaceman Spiff

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 434

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old El Paso:
I was looking at getting a portable mp3 player. The cost of the player is close to that of the MD player/recorder. But it's the media that killed me. I'm unsure of the exact cost, but a 64MB card was ~$100. You can get 5 74-minute MDs for $12.99 That was the selling point for me.

Yes, MD's have digital and analog in (plus a mic in). And with mine, I had to buy the $12 optical cable.

As far as sound quality, MD wins against 128k mp3's. I'm sure 256k would be neck-and-neck. I'm somewhat of an audiophile, but it is easily noticeable.

---

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 2

I'm waiting for the Visor to come downunder so no practical experience here. But I've previously wondered about a minidisk recorder/player with a springboard connector - for playing music, for dictating documents (to be given in MD form to a stenographer or dumped into voice to text software on Mac/PC) for voicenotes, for musical ideas. Use the Visor screen to program, use Graffiti to write in titles for recording, have it self powered. And as several have said the recording medium is far cheaper than CF. Finally - re Sony rep comments - don't Palm and Sony have a strategic alliance these days?

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

I would think that sony and Palm are buddies, because Sony has a Palm OS device in Japan I belive.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Holt
Posts: 7

coming from a person who's owned a mp3 player and a minidisc player, I much rather prefer mp3 players.
for one, mp3 players record a lot faster than minidiscs, and I don't want to spend 74 minutes listening to music, just so I can go listen to it somewhere else, I want it on there and quickly, that happens with mp3 players
for two, you have to program the names of tracks in minidisc players which takes even more time, which is bs, with mp3's you can get it looked up online and you're all set

and finally you can get basically any song off the net in mp3 form, so you buy an mp3 unit for $200 and never have to buy any music again

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: El Paso
Posts: 8

Pardon me for asking, but what exactly is the added utility in sticking an mp3 player on the back of the visor? It doesn't use the visor's processor. All it uses is battery power. So why should I hook up a player that requires I carry around my relatively more fragile visor just to play music?

A standalone player has better battery life, is much smaller (credit card sized), and will be more rugged with fewer worries about damage than the springboard version.

I'm waiting for a wireless module like a 2way pager or bluetooth...


------------------
-=greg=-

Registered: Nov 1999
Location:
Posts: 40

Both technologies have their merits.

For me, cost is a big determining factor. minidisco.com has the Sharp recorder for 189 after rebate, and as mentioned before, media is cheap. Unless you are bill gates you cannot afford to have a MP3 library in memory chips. At buck-fifty per minidisc, I can build a large collection easily.

As a college student I have to stretch my spending. I own neither a minidisc or MP3 player because I listen to all my music via my sound card (or mooch off my roommate's nice speaker system). If i ever invest the cash in either technology it has to be versatile. I would want to use it as a recorder (handy for doing Chem Labs) and for taping lectures. Only one MP3 player on the market I'm aware of has the capability to do realtime record. (It's made by Aiwa, don't think it's available in the US).

Size is not a concern for me because I wear cargo pants, and the newest Minidisc player from japan are no larger than a few Minidiscs stacked. Skipping is not an issue either because my aerobic workouts involve rollerblading, which is very low impact. And as much as I love my visor I don't see myself carrying it around for sports; it's too fragile and mission critical.

From an audio standpoint, MD recording is much easier. It's easy to hack together a TOSLINK (optical) out setup and make PERFECT digital recordings. MP3z, OTOH, requires a good codec to sound good. Go on napster, and some of the songs you can get off it sounds like crap because it wasn't ripped and encoded properly. Audiophiles will also claim that ATRAC (MD) compression sounds better, though I cannot tell.

-=- SiKnight

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

I've burned my entire CD collection onto three CDs (in MP3), and I'm not Bill Gates. According to Innogears FAQ page, the MiniJam will use the Visor's mike for voice recording.