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Are quotes overused on VC?


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Are quotes overused on VC? You do not have permission to vote on this poll.
YES! GET RID OF THE QUOTE FEATURE!	0	0%
Yes, but it works sometimes.	8	47.06%
Nah, there's nothing wrong with all those quotes.	9	52.94%
Total:	17 votes	100%

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ernieba1
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Elkins Park, Pa
Posts: 577

Are quotes overused on VC?

I'm on the verge of insanity! Actually I'm not, but these constant quotes are driving me crazy! I'm reading a post and somebody is quoting someone else's entire post! Why not just write "about what Whoever said, blah blah blah"? It's annoying to read a post, and then see it reappear on the next post down. Rebuttals with different points, like what Toby frequently does, are ok, that is what the feature is for! Not repeating somebody else's entire post!

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06-20-2001 01:00 AM

Bret Snyder
Member

Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca
Posts: 302

Re: Are quotes overused on VC?

quote:
Originally posted by ernieba1
I'm on the verge of insanity! Actually I'm not, but these constant quotes are driving me crazy! ...

Yeah... Me TOO

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06-20-2001 01:04 AM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

Well, I agree that they can be overused, but I think that self-policing is the only way to handle it. As you noted, for which I'm grateful, quoting can sometimes be necessary for clarity in replies. I usually only check the board a couple times a day (and almost never on weekends). This can sometimes leave quite a lag between my post and the post to which I'm replying. I also find it helpful when I only have something to address in only part of someone's post.

06-20-2001 01:09 AM

slotmachine
Member

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Yes.
Posts: 358

Re: Re: Are quotes overused on VC?

quote:
Originally posted by Bret Snyder

Yeah... Me TOO

What's up with all these quotes?

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06-20-2001 01:40 AM

slotmachine
Member

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Yes.
Posts: 358

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Well, I agree that they can be overused, but I think that self-policing is the only way to handle it. As you noted, for which I'm grateful, quoting can sometimes be necessary for clarity in replies. I usually only check the board a couple times a day (and almost never on weekends). This can sometimes leave quite a lag between my post and the post to which I'm replying. I also find it helpful when I only have something to address in only part of someone's post.

Good points.

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06-20-2001 01:40 AM

Matthew Nichols
Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 714

I almost always quote, especially if a topic might have several sub topics within it which don't directly deal with the original post. I do try to trim quotes to only the relevant info though, like cutting sentences out and replacing with a "..." where it was. I don't like it when people quote the entire post.

And since they're in bold & offset, you can easily skip over them if need be.

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06-20-2001 01:41 AM

sowens
Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 284

For this kind of message forum it's probably overkill. For some of us it's actually a point of etiquette from our USENET news days, where including a quote would give the reader a reference (couldn't always guarantee the reader saw the original thread).

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06-20-2001 02:27 AM

ernieba1
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Elkins Park, Pa
Posts: 577

quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Nichols
I almost always quote, especially if a topic might have several sub topics within it which don't directly deal with the original post. I do try to trim quotes to only the relevant info though, like cutting sentences out and replacing with a "..." where it was. I don't like it when people quote the entire post.

And since they're in bold & offset, you can easily skip over them if need be.

Yes, that is a good reason when to use quoting.

My quoting in this post is purely sarcastic. This is a case where I think quoting is unnecessary.

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-Bernie

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.
-Dan Quayle

06-20-2001 04:03 AM

ashmed
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 441

quote:
rley sarca

hehe

(I took his post WAY out of context if you can't tell)

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06-20-2001 04:28 AM

Gameboy70
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

Re: Are quotes overused on VC?

quote:
Originally posted by ernieba1
I'm on the verge of insanity! Actually I'm not, but these constant quotes are driving me crazy! I'm reading a post and somebody is quoting someone else's entire post! Why not just write "about what Whoever said, blah blah blah"? It's annoying to read a post, and then see it reappear on the next post down. Rebuttals with different points, like what Toby frequently does, are ok, that is what the feature is for! Not repeating somebody else's entire post!

I don't think they're overused

06-24-2001 09:03 AM

Rob
Member

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: at work...
Posts: 736

There are two problems with quotes on VC:

1) Some people quote unnecessarily, and don't trim the quotes, resulting in a lot of wasted screen space. It is considered good netiquette to only quote when you are replying to specific comments, and to trim the quotes down to only those sections that are relevent to your responses. Toby often does a good job of this.

2) The way VC formats quotes is not very good. There is too much space before/after the quoted passage, in addition to indenting it and bolding it. This is not only overkill, but also results in way too many blank lines when people like Toby try to respond point-by-point to an argument by quoting each sentence or phrase seperately. While I usually appreciate this, as it helps you follow what points the poster is challenging, on VC there will end up being more whitespace and blank lines than actual text! Maybe in the next version of VC we could reduce the blank line buffering around quoted text?

Last edited by Rob on 06-24-2001 at 03:24 PM

06-24-2001 03:07 PM

Gameboy70
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

quote:
Originally posted by Rob
1) Some people quote unnecessarily, and don't trim the quotes, resulting in a lot of wasted screen space.

As Toby says, this is really a matter of self-policing. I don't see how the problem can be remedied by policy. But it helps from time to time to bring the issue to people's attention, which is what makes this thread valuable.

quote:
2) The way VC formats quotes is not very good. There is too much space before/after the quoted passage, in addition to indenting it and bolding it. This is not only overkill, but also results in way too many blank lines when people like Toby try to respond point-by-point to an argument by quoting each sentence or phrase seperately.

I don't expect to change Toby's response style, but I have problems with his tendency to atomize each paragraph and go for surgical strikes on every sentence, even if his arguments are valid (which they usually are). But the formatting of quotes compounds the problem. Your reply Toby?

My ideal quote format would be to keep the "Originally posted by" header, add no whitespace, and add only bold or italic intensifiers (one or the other, not both) to set off the quotes from the replies. Bold is too loud for my taste, but I wouldn't mind it so much if the whitespace were dropped.

06-24-2001 03:57 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by Gameboy70
I don't expect to change Toby's response style, but I have problems with his tendency to atomize each paragraph and go for surgical strikes on every sentence, even if his arguments are valid (which they usually are). But the formatting of quotes compounds the problem. Your reply Toby?

Hmm...I don't really see it as atomizing anything. I'm just trying to cope as best as possible on occasion with different writing styles. Some people tend to write in such a way that each sentence addresses a different subject all within the same paragraph (or sometimes even make one sentence address two or more subjects). In such a case, following up to an entire paragraph (or even on rare occasions a single sentence) would make my reply read as disjointed and chaotic to me.

WRT surgical strikes, I think others tend to interpret them as such far more often than such an intent actually exists. Unfortunately, I don't always have time to make my replies 'nicey-nice', so only a dry rendition sometimes has to suffice. If somebody wants to take that as an attack, that's their prerogative, but it's usually not. We could get into dry humor that gets missed sometimes as well, but I think that's enough for now.

06-24-2001 07:08 PM

narnia_77
Member

Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Inglewood, CA, USA
Posts: 390

Sometimes it's a good idea to quote, because the original poster (or someone else) may modify/delete their post - making your response look stupid or out of place. I've had this happen to me before (not here at VC) so it's now just a habit for me. I *do* try to trim it down to just what I am responding to...

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06-24-2001 07:20 PM

gbgood
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: June 10, 2001 San Clemente Pier , CA
Posts: 211

Compare this board to visorvillage.com, yahoo groups, zdnet, etc.

This is such a good-looking, usable discussion board that I refuse to complain about any minor annoyances. And they're all minor, as they say.

Smart, funny, interesting poster personalities, are a bonus too.

Let's get back to complaining/wishing for a color edge with 16/32 onboard and affordable wireless!! & how to supercharge our current ones.

Did you see the post from the guy who told how to up your hotsync thru-put? I had forgotten about that trick.

ps. "Don't quote me."

06-24-2001 08:01 PM

Gameboy70
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Some people tend to write in such a way that each sentence addresses a different subject all within the same paragraph (or sometimes even make one sentence address two or more subjects). In such a case, following up to an entire paragraph (or even on rare occasions a single sentence) would make my reply read as disjointed and chaotic to me.

I look for the main thrust of the paragraph, even if the writing within it is somewhat discursive, and respond to the general theme. Occasionally I'll split a paragraph when I think it's important, but I try to keep that to a minimum. I let a lot of stuff go that I could easily rebut, including entire posts (or entire threads), when I think it's insignificant in the scheme of things.

We draw the line at different places. I brought it up in the first place because it was relevant to quote formatting, not the substance of your debating style.

quote:
WRT surgical strikes, I think others tend to interpret them as such far more often than such an intent actually exists. Unfortunately, I don't always have time to make my replies 'nicey-nice', so only a dry rendition sometimes has to suffice. If somebody wants to take that as an attack, that's their prerogative, but it's usually not.

Not what I meant. By "surgical strikes" I was referring to the finer granularity of your point-for-point replies to people's posts: you tend to rebut every sentence or two, where most VC members (like me) reply to paragraphs. I don't read your responses as attacks, and besides, I'd rather read a direct response than a cloyingly "nice" one.

06-25-2001 08:05 AM

BobbyMike
Member

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: "Children are a gift from God, they are a reward"
Posts: 1049

Rob wrote:
" The way VC formats quotes is not very good. There is too much space before/after the quoted passage, in addition to indenting it and bolding it....Maybe in the next version of VC we could reduce the blank line buffering around quoted text?"

How about people quote the old fashioned way, by cut and paste? I find that the quote feature is more cumbersome to use than just cutting and pasting. I also just type in [B..., etc. when I want bold or italic. Much quicker and gives me more control. I think that the quote feature is will never suit everybody, regardless of how they format its implementation. Somebody will always want it to work differently.

Ernieba1 wrote:
"Actually I'm not, but these constant quotes are driving me crazy! I'm reading a post and somebody is quoting someone else's entire post! Why not just write "about what Whoever said, blah blah blah"?"

I use to feel the same way, but after having a mini-discussion with Toby about them in another thread, I changed my mind. I do recognize that the threads can stretch out, but I feel that the ability to follow the train of discussion in a thread is much easier with them. If people didn't use them, I would have to re-read entire threads every time 'cause my memory sucks!

Michael

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06-25-2001 01:01 PM

Toby
Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 3034

quote:
Originally posted by Gameboy70
I look for the main thrust of the paragraph, even if the writing within it is somewhat discursive, and respond to the general theme. [...]

*sigh* For the second time this morning, the board seems to have eaten one of my posts. In this case, it's probably not worth recomposing, though. Suffice it to say that I acknowledge and/or concur with almost everything you said. I realized what you were getting at with the 'surgical strike' reference, but was just noting that others sometimes viewed it in the more attack-oriented connotation.

06-25-2001 03:32 PM

ernieba1
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Elkins Park, Pa
Posts: 577

Geez, I hate it when my posts are eaten! I've written really long posts, only to find them gobbled up by VC. The only thing worse is when you accidentally post the same post twice.

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-Bernie

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.
-Dan Quayle

06-25-2001 04:09 PM

Gameboy70
Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Metro Station, Hollywood and Highland
Posts: 1018

BobbyMike wrote:
How about people quote the old fashioned way, by cut and paste? I find that the quote feature is more cumbersome to use than just cutting and pasting.

BobbyMike, you're a genius of common sense.

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06-25-2001 05:47 PM

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