Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 90

That's a shame Ken....

I nearly cancelled my Visor when it was 7 weeks in delivery rather than the 6 that they said. I'm glad I didn't. I've never had any problems USB syncing to a Win98 desktop at home *AND* serial syncing to a WinNT desktop at work. I load up lots of web pages via AvantGo, I've got a few hacks installed, I've got Backup Buddy going... fairly intensive. I've only had to hard reset once and that was because the notepad app crashed. That's the same as the Palm version so no blame on Handspring there (it may have been my hacks or it may have just been 'one of those things'...)
If you've gone with the Palm, you'll never have the ease and expandability of the Springboards and you'll never have the neater form factor of the Visor. True you could shell out for a Palm Vx but then you could have a couple of Visors for the same money...
Even if you don't use Springboards right away at least they're there if you need them. I don't think Handspring will be the DeLorean of the PDA world. I think they screwed up badly, but I think they got through it (JUST!). And besides, the upside to so many pissed off early adopters is a very strong self help user forum like this..! :-)
Still, I hope your Palm does what you need and that you don't grow out of it too soon... if you do, you know where to come back to..!

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 119

Sorry you gave up. I have had my BVD since right after Christmas. My husband has a GVD, my daughter a GVD -- and she just got an IVD for her husband! My husband and daughter never had a single problem. The problems I have had is because I want to sync to non-standard stuff (like Calendar Creator for the datebook and Info Accelerator for the phone book). Even though third party vendors say they link to the Palm OS, it may or may not run smoothly. This weekend I finally decided to just go with the standard Palm Desktop -- and it all works just fine. No problem syncing at all. (I use USB and Win98.) (And if I ever hear back from the Info Accelerator people about how to make their link work, I may try that again some day!)

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 46

Again....I agree with James...mine is fine...so far. But what happens when I have a problem.

Who of us has an hour or two to stay on hold? Lost wages...lost productivity...and long distance charges. I'll say it again. HS has one fundamental problem...it's not poor customer service...it's no customer service. If they can iron this out...no problems...and no complaints from me. The first step is making all contact numbers toll-free. I don't know about the rest of you...but making a toll call from work is expensive...and a pain. As djlock just said on another post...and I paraphrase...without the customer service...the Visor is an incomplete product. I could not agree more.

Maybe Donna slept through a few lectures in B-School?!?

Now I'm worried...maybe there's no toll-free support because they are having a cash flow problem. Uggghhh...that could spell trouble. I don't want to throw my Visor in the box with my Commodore 64....and all the other obsolete junk I've purchased over the years...

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 13

Reply to James Hromadka:

I didn't say that "vast majority of Visor owners have problems." I said that the vast _experience_ of Visor owners [as gleaned from these discussions] suggest [to me] that I was shipped a defective product from Handspring.

I don't believe a majority of Visor owners have problems. I would be surprised if 15% of Visor owners have problems.

But what if just 2% of Ford Tauruses had major defects, or 2% of Nokia cell phones? You would have tens of thousands of people left high and dry.

Tell me honestly, James: Do you believe that Handspring knowingly put out a product that they knew would have fewer problems had they waited to release AFTER the Christmas rush, after more R&D? In my opinion, the answer is YES. That makes Handspring either A) greedy or B) reckless.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 434

Reply to G-Man:

Looking at the same information as you, I see no evidence that HS has shipped a defective product - - knowingly or otherwise. However, for both of us, this is entirely subjective. We lack the data to form opinions with any relation to the actual situaiton.

Given the above, were it up to me, I would kill this entire thread - - it is only needlessly scaring away potential Visor owners [we can agree that MOST of these users would be happy with their new Visor?]. I certainly don't see it doing any good . . . well, any good for me!

We, the current Visor owners, need all the new chums that we can get. They are needed to convince Springboard developers to market the products they have announced (or are thinking of producing).

Oh. Yes. I completely agree that HS is shooting themselves in the foot by not providing a way to contact Tech Support by e-mail. And, yes. I too hope that I never need to call Tech Support, and have to endure an on-hold marathon . . .

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

The product that Handspring has put out has had few problems, if any.

I didn't quote you as saying majority, and I don't see the experience of Visor users as the Visor being a lemon. And comparing Visors to cars is not a good comparison. 2% of millions of cars would be very significant. 2% of thousands of Visors would not be a significant number.

LynnBob, I don't know why you are this worried about your Visor when you have had no problems so far with the product. Try not to be so paranoid.

G-Man said:

quote:

---

Tell me honestly, James: Do you believe that Handspring knowingly put out a product that they knew would have fewer problems had they waited to release AFTER the Christmas rush, after more R&D?

---

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Posts: 146

Okay, I'm not taking sides with G-man or James. However, I will give my input on this subject.

The main reason that I haven't switched from my IIIx to a Visor is twofold, but only the first part is applicable (BTW, the second part of my reason is waiting for color screens on the Palm IIIc, so you can see it doesn't apply)

Anyway, I haven't bought a Visor yet because I fear that Handspring is going through the growing pains of a new company. The main problems, support and shipping, have been extensively documented in this forum and others. However, marketing and support aren't the only problems.

I do feel that there are a few problems that Handspring could have resolved if they would have waited a little longer to release the product. Further testing and internal use of the Visor would have shown that the screen and the cases are both too soft or weak. We all know that in designing this product, the designers probably had a III series Palm sitting right there with them, and if they had actually tried the Visor out, they would have seen the exact same problem as everyone else with the Visor.

In my opinion (only my opinion, this is not a researched statement and I'm trying to pass this off as fact) HandSpring released the Visor when they did because of fear that the new Palm IIIc would be reasonably priced and have some new features to make the Visor look less appealing. IMO, the Visor was released when it was so that HS would have 4 months of non-color Palm OS devices in the competition. I'm not saying this is the sole reason, nor am I saying that Handspring definetely released the product earlier than they hoped; all I'm saying is that it's a distinct possibility.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still intrigued by the Visor and I wish that Palm would learn from Handspring on things like pricing, memory and the idea of a springboard. However, like I said, the Visor hasn't earned the right to replace my IIIx.

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

Hawkeye -

When does the Palm IIIc come out?

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Posts: 146

Ken,

This is rumor only, but word has it that the IIIc will be introduced along with the IIIxe (a IIIx with 8 mb) at the Palm Developer convention on February 2, 2000. The rumor also has it that the units themselves will be for sale as early as late February.

For more info, keep checking the PDA Buzz forums at http://www.pdabuzz.com Hope this info helps!

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 143

Ken,

I switched to a Visor from a fried Palm Pro and I'm glad I did...however, if this is your first PDA I suspect you'll be equally likely to be either happy or unhappy with either platform depending on the combination of:

Luck
Your personality

All products have some probability of defects. It is probably true that as a younger company, I can imagine that HS is less likely to be able to respond to every possibility than Palm - I don't have enough data to really know, and I don't think anyone else here does either - there is a large self-sampling issue in making these judgements from the tone of comments on these kinds of boards. IMHO, anyone who has owned computers for any significant length of time has had SOME problems with all of them. How people feel about them may say as much about them as about the computers.

For example, I'm a Mac user and I know that I'm likely to be much crabbier when Word crashes on me than when something else like Acrobat crashes. It's not based entirely on objective frequency of problems (after all, I should expect Word to crash more often...I use it more), it's also tinged by my biases about the companies involved.

Some people spend months poring over Consumer Reports before buying a car...others are perfectly happy with cars that have horrible ratings in CR...and sometimes individual cars from models with high ratings have problems.

At the price point where it makes sense to buy a PDA, I don't expect perfection. However, IMHO again, BOTH Palm and HS make PDAs that are very good value for the money and if you focus on how they make your life easier, you'll be happy with either. On the other hand, if you second guess yourself all the time, then you'll probably wish you had X when you bought Y.

The bottom line is that I think you should get a Visor if you like the feature set better and you should buy a Palm if you really think that you'll sleep better with a Palm. You'll have some problems with either, largely depending on how adventurous you are with third-party software and PC configurations that they haven't tested. But...if you have problems with a Visor, you can get help from all the nice people who hang out here!

Registered: Jan 2000
Location:
Posts: 107

Huski � Thanks for the advice. Are you a Cornhusker? Heaven forbid! (Your post says Texas, but the only �Huskies� I know are those red blooded Nebraska folks. Or is it more like huski = husky = gruff?).

Okay - I�m an avid Consumer Reports follower. That�s probably why I decided to go with the Palm (I never read any reviews on the Palm in CR, but CNET shed some light on the subject). I must confess, however, that after making this decision � to go with Palm - FedEx showed up at my door one hour later with the Handspring USB hotsync cable and stylus 5-pack. I had ordered these two things a week earlier, expecting to buy the Visor Deluxe at a later date (I�m moving and I didn�t want to deal with having my Visor forwarded all over the U.S.).

So now I feel stuck. Or maybe it�s a sign? Divine intervention via the FedEx man? Is the Visor my destiny, or should I just return the darn things to HS? In the words of the Clash � this indecision�s buggin� me.

Sorry everyone � I sure didn�t mean for this post to turn into a flaming file. My backpedaling doesn�t need to be spelled out on the Internet. But I will say this � Go Penn State!

Okay James, now you can put a lock on it.


[This message has been edited by Ken (edited 01-25-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ken (edited 01-25-2000).]

Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 46

James...I'm not being paranoid...really I'm not...you don't work for the government do you? Or the trilateral commission? Whew...

You are right. I'm happy as a clam. And I'm really not trying to be Mr. Negativity. I honestly feel that for HS to be successful they must open better lines of communication. That's it. Product is fine. Perception of product...not so fine.

I have heard from several people who are not buying Visors because of things they've read on this very board. Shoot...I myself tried to cancel my order because of negative things I read here. I had a horrible problem with CS tryin to cancel...emailed Donna...she emailed me...and I felt reassured...and I decided to take a chance when it arrived. I'm glad I did.

My question is this: How much more successful could HS be if they better opened lines of communication...toll free numbers...responses to posts on this and other boards (as I mention in my post about them being chicken)...? They could make these negatives go away...and save themselves many lost customers.

The reality of my visor (so far) does not match the negative expectations I had for it...and I think it's dumb(for want of a better term) for HS not to get this stuff under the bridge...and better (free) communication is the key....

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

You are right that communication is always the best way to do things. But how should HS handle communication? Should they have a presence here? What about other websites? There are ways to communicate right now with HS, and the support email will be working again soon.

I know that there are people that have been burned by incorrect info and long shipping times, but look at the Received log and you will see that the time is much better now.

I am going to close this topic, not because I am trying to hide anything or protect anyone, but because it is getting to where we are going to have to agree to disagree.

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com