Registered: Mar 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 517

These SpringBoard prices are getting to be too high! After today there are five that cost more than the Visor and one more un-priced wireless solution which will fall into the same category. The next time I decide to buy something I will have to choose between a SB module or a new Visor prizm (or color). If I didn't already own a Visor I would be looking at spending between $500 - $800! I don't think this is a very strong selling point for Handspring.

Why are these new SB's so expensive? The MP3 modules have an excuse: the memory they use is expensive. The other modules don't. The VisorPhone does not have a display or a mic on it and it is still priced higher than a new Motorola phone. But the VisorPhone doesn't look too overpriced once you compare it to the Minstrel modem, which has less functionality, a higher monthly rate and costs $370. I guess I just envisioned myself having so many SB's it would be hard to choose which ones to take out. Now it looks like I will only have one very expensive module that will sit in the Visor all the time, except when using my only other SB: the Backup module.

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

I agree with you. I am pretty disappointed with my decision to go with Handspring. I was one of the people who ordered my Visor last fall. I bought with the hope that by now, ONE WHOLE YEAR LATER, there would be a nice selection of Springboards to choose from.

To put it mildly, I am thoroughly disappointed. I would have went with the Palm Vx if I had it to do over again. A better looking unit, the same 8Meg memory, and an upgradable OS. They have OmniSky, a GPS and better accessories in general than any Visor product. So I have an Eyemodule and back-up module, woopty-doo. I spent as much as a Vx already, and all I have is a silly looking plastic PDA with nary a decent module to add to it.

Look at the Omnisky for a Palm V for $149.
Look at the @ctivelink wireless springboar $428-ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!! WHAT A RIP-OFF...

Who really wants to listen to MP3 from your PDA? Buy a standalone unit for less. It will be smaller than a Visor/MiniJam combo anyway. I know, some of you will say "Who wants to carry around all these devices?"

Hello - you still have to carry around all these overpriced Springboards separately. It really doesn't make sense to me why a Springboard device would cost more that a standalone unit by another company. (ie VisorPhone versus any other decent cell phone)

How long have we been waiting for a decent GPS? the SixPak? My Visor is, and will remain, a cheap-o Palm Clone that will run an antiquated OS, unable to support any new advancements to the Palm platform. ie. high resolution graphics, etc. etc. etc.

The damn thing should be called the Handspring Vapor....

Anyone want to buy and ice VDX, Eyemodule, and back-up. Will take beer or a nice Palm Vx in trade....

[Edited by JJR on 09-27-2000 at 06:03 PM]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

Hi. Exactly what kind of springboard are you looking for? Why squat? Develop it!
Don't get me wrong.. I'm a bit disappointed with some of the costs, but it's a trend for prices to drop. Perhaps we should have a reasonable Springboard cost thread where we all play The Price is Right..COME ON DOWN!!!
If you asked me 10 years ago about Gameboy cartridges still being produced I'd've laughed in your face like this...
HAHAHAHA!!! HOHOHOHO!!.. OH I CAN'T BREATHE!!.. HAHAHA!!.. HANG ON A SECOND!!.. WHEW!!"

I'd thought for certain that we wouldn't be talking about Gameboys all these years later. Remember Sega's Game Gear?
So basically what I'm saying is that it is great that Handspring has opened up their technology for customization and compatibility. It's not exactly proprietary. With the enthusiasm towards expansion I expect that this (springboard) technology will not go obsolete for some time.
As a side note from a developer's perspective, I'd take my time too before releasing thousands of products to the public. I'd like to know in the back of my mind that they're going to work exactly as intended. I also know that I do not directly profit from Handspring's own sales. So I set my price to turn my own profit.
Someone's going to shell out the cash at these prices, and if not we'll see the drop faster than you can say 'New Thread.' It only makes sense. It would impress me if VisorCentral or group of members created a springboard or two at lower costs.

__________________
"The Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." -- Daniel Borstin

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 56

Actually a SB phone at $300 is cheaper than any cell phone that you have right now. Most cell phones ACTUALLY cost more than $350. However, cell phone companies sell you the phone real cheap when you sign a contract for service. I would suspect that after a month or two of being out the visor phone will start appearing in large markets at ~$100-$150. This is the case for the OmniSky and Minstrel combo which will probably cost $150 with the purchase of one year of Omni Sky service. By next year or so I'm sure we will begin to see SB's at very reasonable prices

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 2682

I think the real problem here is patience (or the lack thereof ). We all have this Visor with its Springboard slot and we want something in it!

You need to keep in mind that the Springboard developers had to be wary a year ago about whether or not the Visor was even going to succeed in the market. Just ask yourself this question: would you invest tons of cash on a whim?

Now that the Visor has proven itself, the developers are probably jumping through hoops to get products out the door. Like mrknowitall said, ensuring that the products work as intended is a BIG factor here. Combine that with the widely publicized component shortages, and I think there's viable reasons for all the delays. The parts needed for most modules are basically the same ones needed by cell phones, not to mention other electronic devices (like all those new Visor's Handspring is building ). The world is clamoring for this stuff!!!

In time, I believe we will have plenty of modules to choose from. I'm intrigued by all the announcements that came out of PCIA today. The developers are trying... at least I believe they are. Let's give them the time required to give us good, reliable SpringBoard modules...

Ok... so where's my SixPak?

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Registered: Feb 2000
Location:
Posts: 638

quote:

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Originally posted by bolson
Actually a SB phone at $300 is cheaper than any cell phone that you have right now. Most cell phones ACTUALLY cost more than $350.

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Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca
Posts: 302

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkEagle
I think the real problem here is patience (or the lack thereof ). We all have this Visor with its Springboard slot and we want something in it!

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__________________
Bret Snyder<BR>If you don't know where you're going,<BR>You'll probably end up somewhere else.

Registered: May 2000
Location: Rome, NY
Posts: 28

I am one that usually preaches patience, but like lennonhead
I have little left.

I can understand the time factor, but anyway you rationalize it, the Palm Vx is now and Handspring is future. When I first looked to buy a PDA, I was sold on a Palm Vx.
The Visor Dx and it's promises of expandability were what convinced me to change my mind. A year later, I am still waiting.

I feel like I should have gone with the Palm Vx. Handspring could have at least made it absolutely clear that SB's would not be available for 1-2 years.

I think eventually the Visor will be the bomb! But right now, the Palm Vx seems the way to go.

I may be selling my Visor Dx as well!!

__________________
I use a Visor DX
Therefore I am cool!

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

mrknowitall - Are you serious??? Develop my own Springboard. You've got to be kidding me. First of all, my life does not revolve around my PDA, I have better things to do than spend my hard earned $$ and valuable free time trying to become the next Innogear. I didn't buy this thing to have to develop my own springboard!!! Seriously...

bolson - I disagree with the cost of cell phones. I have a Nokia 6160. Digital, with voicemail, caller ID, call waiting, conference calling, text paging. I bought it for $199 at Best Buy. I do not have a contract and I pay $29/month for service with 100 free minutes. Face it, the VisorPhone is overpriced. Look at it this way you either have to leave the module in 24/7, or everytime you get a phone call you have to pull out your Visor take out the springboard cover and plug the phone in all before the call goes to voicemail...if that is even available.

As far as the discussion goes regarding patience. Look what has happened since the Handspring Vapor has come out: You have the new Palm M100, the Vx with OmniSky and numerous other add-ons, the Sony PDA, the Pocket PC, etc. The PDA market is moving extremely fast. When the Visor came out, it was fresh and new with a ton of potential. Today, however, it is old news and only lives up to a fraction of its original potential. Like the computer market in general, if you fall behind your competition, you will soon be obsolete and crushed by the rate at which the tech/computer market changes.

By the time there are decent springboards are out, Palm, Sony, etc. will be light years ahead of Hanspring with either new units and better accessories. The market is constantly changing, unless Handspring does, it will be soon forgotten.

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

quote:

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Originally posted by JJR
My Visor is, and will remain, a cheap-o Palm Clone that will run an antiquated OS, unable to support any new advancements to the Palm platform. ie. high resolution graphics, etc. etc. etc.

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High resolution graphics?! How ya gonna do that with an LCD that only has 160 x 160 pixels? You can upgrade the OS till you're blue in the face any you're never going to have any better resolution that what you have right now.

This "PalmOS 3.1 is totally obsolete" stuff never ceases to amuse me. As far as I can tell, the only thing that newer versions buy you is some enhanced sync capabilities, PQA support, and 16 grayscale output.

Now, the enhanced sync stuff can be quite valuable for some people ... but there's absolutely no reason that Handspring couldn't make that available via a RAM patch if they thought there was sufficient demand. Things like IR syncing are already available FREE via third party solutions.

16 grayscale output - yeah, there's a showstopper! Lets be realistic. The contrast of the display is bad enough as it is ... the last thing I want is for things on the screen to be even harder to see. Yes in the case of graphics it can be very helpful ... but whadda ya know, the graphics viewer software already takes over the display and uses all 16 gray levels. What's more, displaying gray on an LCD takes a lot more power than displaying black! The last thing I want is to sacrifice battery life so I can have pretty icons in the launcher.

And as for PQA's ... that capability might become more valuable once wireless Springboards become more readily available, but right now I don't think too many people miss it.

The "upgrade or die" mentality that the software world has burried into everyone's subconscious has to be one of the greatest marketing miracles in recorded history. People burn huge sums of money and waste countless hours to get "new features" that they don't need and will probably never use. Yes a few people can and will take advantage of them and if you're one of them then by all means sell your Visor and get something else. I for one am *very* grateful that Handspring decided to skip the Flash and save me some money!

__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

dkessler -

You're missing the whole point of the discussion. The OS is only one of the MANY issues that are going to kill the Handspring Vapor.

The Palm Vx has so much more to offer. Upgradeable OS, accessories out NOW. Check out http://www.provantage.com/scripts/go.dll/-s/fc_rand compare the price to the Geode
or
http://www.omnisky.com/newsletter/offer/20000901.htm compare the price to the @ctivelink
or
http://www.palm.com/software/addons.html

The price for all the great Palm accessories versus the overprice springboard crap will offset the price of a Palm Vx versus the Handspring Vapor Deluxe.

Looks to me like all Palm accessories that are now available will soon surpass the Visor, which is being marketed as a infinitely expandable PDA.

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

quote:

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mrknowitall - Are you serious???

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hmm. Mr. Serious. has a nice ring to it , but just doesn't seem to fit.

quote:

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I have better things to do than spend my hard earned $$..

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Then what is your complaint? If you don't want to spend your money then why did you buy a Visor over the Palm?

quote:

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. I didn't buy this thing to have to develop my own springboard!!! Seriously...

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Did you buy the Visor to suit your needs? What are they?
What was the ultimate factor that influenced your decision?
Was it the springboard?

I never suggested that you become the 'next Innogear.' Why not develop a module for your own use/needs? Here's what I get out of your post...You seem to think it is inexpensive to manufacture these springboards. Why not test the theory? If it's a GPS you want, I'd be delighted (perhaps inspired) to hear your success story about your creation of a module that works for you, at much less cost then purchasing 3rd party. If you want a GPS module, spend your 50 bucks (or so) making one, or pay the price that's being offered for one that works. How much do you feel you should have to pay?

Think of the feeling of accomplishment with a device you created. I applaud these developers. Remember.. without the Visor, there'd be no third party interests such as VisorCentral.

Just some of my thoughts on the rest of your second last post...The Palm M100 should never have been a 2MB model. I will never understand how Palm came to that decision. I hope the Visor isn't 'old news'. Current investors on the NASDAQ don't seem to think so. Neither does the media. Everything but love goes obsolete.

__________________
"The Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." -- Daniel Borstin

Registered: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57

I bought a Visor for the price, the Palm OS, and the expandibility of the Springboard slot. I like the look and feel of the Palm Vx, much more than the GameBoy-esque plastic covering.

If I had a Palm Vx, I would buy the RandMcNally GPS for $163 versus $250 for the Geode, a savings of $87. I would also by a OmniSky for $149 versus the $299 OmniSky module for the Visor, a savings of $150. The Palm Vx is $399 on the Palm site versus a Visor for $249, a cost of $150. The net result is a savings of $87. I would have a better looking, stirdier, more stable PDA. Not to mention the $$ you save on batteries since the Vx is rechargable.

As far as developing my OWN spring board, I know I can't develop my own springboard for less than several thousand dollars. mrknowitall, in case you failed Economics or Business class in high school, I will clear something up for you. The reason we as consumers buy a product is for the fact that a company is providing us the service of developing and manufacturing a product for our use. They have already put in the time and money to develop, implement, debug and build the product for us. Sure I could build my own car from scratch. But I don't have the resources, money, or time to forge and shape the metal, build and debug the engine, or put everything together. Surely, my car would not be as realiable as nice as a car off of an assembly line. A company takes all the costs of everything that goes into a product, R&D, manufacturing, marketing, etc. and distrubutes these costs over the mass-produced quantities of these products via the retail price.

Maybe in your world, you can make a spaceship and fly to the moon, but here on Earth in reality, I buy products that I cannot produce myself, like cars, computers, shoes, clothing, gasoline, etc. etc. I am paying for a service provided by experts who can produce a better product than I ever could. I bought my Handspring with the hopes that I would have a PDA with cool add-on modules that are resonably priced and redily available. This has not happened. I will sell my Visor on e-bay before I waste my time trying to develop one single springboard. I don't give a sh@t about the sense of accomplishment from making a springboard that makes cool beeps and flashes. I feel a sense of accomplishment making the best of my free time, enjoying friends, family, and an occasional beer much, much, much more than soldering a circuit board to make a springboard. I make enough cash where I can pay other people to do that for me and drink my beer while they are hard at work.....

Mark my words, the stock will go down along with the anitiquated Visor with its empty Springboard promises. Just look at Palm, that stock is not the most stable investiment out there, even though the Palm presence remains strong. A stocks price is a reflection of the fickle investors who put their money in it.

[Edited by JJR on 09-28-2000 at 11:19 AM]

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

kalaban and JJR,

do what you want, but I can't agree with you. My graphite VDX has been 100% reliable, feels solid, and IMHO looks professional.

I've got a backup module that lets me enter data all day when away from my machine and not worry about losing it to theft, damage, crash, etc before I can get back to my PC and sync. Vx doesnt.

I've got USB hotsynch which is faster than serial. Vx doesn't.

I've got 2 sets of NiMH rechargable batteries that were cheap, work great, and have a good life. Battery cost compared to Vx is a non-issue.


I'm not convinced by the vaporware angle either. There are 3 modems available *now*, 2 MP3 players (so that's not a *real* springboard to you)

Others available include: Eyemodule, PDR, @ctivelink ($428 *includes* $249 VDX), OmniRemote, CUE Radio, and xtra*Digit� Measurement Node.

More trivial ones include TaleLight and InnoPak/2V.

Many wireless modules have been announced recently.

Sure, there are some real duds, like 6-Pak, which looks like it may never exist. And the GPSs are slow to market.

Overall, I see Visor as anything but a dead platform.

__________________
Jeff

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

quote:

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Originally posted by JJR
If I had a Palm Vx, I would buy the RandMcNally GPS for $163 versus $250 for the Geode, a savings of $87. I would also by a OmniSky for $149 versus the $299 OmniSky module for the Visor, a savings of $150. The Palm Vx is $399 on the Palm site versus a Visor for $249, a cost of $150. The net result is a savings of $87. I would have a better looking, stirdier, more stable PDA. Not to mention the $$ you save on batteries since the Vx is rechargable.

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__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

quote:

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As far as developing my OWN spring board, I know I can't develop my own springboard for less than several thousand dollars.

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Really? Then how come there are no $1000+ modules or "several thousand dollars" ones?

quote:

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mrknowitall, in case you failed Economics or Business class in high school, I will clear something up for you...

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Well actually I failed economics in college, so you got me there. But I took the course again and passed with flying colours. That aside.. please.. let's "clear" this up.. It's almost time for breakfast.. Please 'school' me in the meantime.

quote:

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The reason we as consumers buy a product is for the fact that a company is providing us the service of developing and manufacturing a product for our use.

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Imagine that. What was I thinking? Shouldn't have skipped class that day, huh?

quote:

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I am paying for a service provided by experts who can produce a better product than I ever could.

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Paying or complaining?

quote:

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I bought my Handspring with the hopes that I would have a PDA with cool add-on modules that are resonably priced and redily available. This has not happened.

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..and I guess it never will.
What is reasonably priced? That seems to be the issue here.

quote:

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I feel a sense of accomplishment making the best of my free time, enjoying friends, family, and an occasional beer much, much, much more than soldering a circuit board to make a springboard. I make enough cash where I can pay other people to do that for me and drink my beer while they are hard at work.....

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I guess what you're saying is that 'DoItYourself'ers have no lives.
If you want to pay me to drink your beer while I'll work for you, that sounds ok to me. But wouldn't the employee beer fund be better spent on the module that is 'too expensive'?
CHEERS!
...Don't drink and drive.

[Edited by mrknowitall on 09-28-2000 at 11:49 AM]

__________________
"The Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." -- Daniel Borstin

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Posts: 790

quote:

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Originally posted by mrknowitall

quote:

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As far as developing my OWN spring board, I know I can't develop my own springboard for less than several thousand dollars.

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Really? Then how come there are no $1000+ modules or "several thousand dollars" ones?

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__________________
Jeff

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: dynamic!
Posts: 189

quote:

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..it costs a company much more than that to create the first one, they generally recoup their r&d and development costs by selling many copies of their product.

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__________________
"The Greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." -- Daniel Borstin

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 385

quote:

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Originally posted by JJR
You're missing the whole point of the discussion. The OS is only one of the MANY issues that are going to kill the Handspring Vapor.

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__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Texan in Calgary for a while
Posts: 1361

quote:

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Originally posted by mrknowitall
it does? Please provide an example.
That has little to do with the pricing of springboards.

As I've said before, my suggestion had nothing to do with becoming a commmercial developer.

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__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend