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Dave Watkins
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Registered: Dec 1999
Location:
Posts: 88

Have you seen the recent Consumer Reports with a pic of Visor on the cover and the story on "Palms and Other PDA's" on page 20? The Platinum is rated #2 and the Prism #4. Both behind the Sony Clie. A good show by Handspring.

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04-05-2001 01:55 AM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Savage the Sony

The Clie may be a good product, but I will never support Sony and their self-serving efforts to foister the proprietary "memory stick" on us. As if, with both CompactFlash and SmartMedia, we needed another.

04-05-2001 02:53 AM

Matthew Nichols
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Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 714

You're angry at Sony for trying to push their own technology? Sony makes very good products and if the memory stick is really doing that bad then they'll drop it, just like betamax. I wonder if people were complaining when they invented the tape or the CD.

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04-05-2001 02:59 AM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Mad As Hell

Just as the industry was moving, in a general way, toward broad-based adoption of CompactFlash, Sony had to go out and come out with their own proprietary product. I am not aware that the Memory Stick offers any unique and/or technologically redeeming qualities. Both CompactFlash and SmartMedia have plummetted in price over the past year; what about the Memory Stick?

My plan is to consolidate my removable storage around CF devices; I fully intend to enjoy my god-given right to avoid Sony products like the plague.

04-05-2001 03:30 AM

EricG
Member

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Alive and well on VisorCentral.com
Posts: 861

Re: Mad As Hell

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
Just as the industry was moving, in a general way, toward broad-based adoption of CompactFlash, Sony had to go out and come out with their own proprietary product. I am not aware that the Memory Stick offers any unique and/or technologically redeeming qualities. Both CompactFlash and SmartMedia have plummetted in price over the past year; what about the Memory Stick?

My plan is to consolidate my removable storage around CF devices; I fully intend to enjoy my god-given right to avoid Sony products like the plague.

It offers a digitally secure format, of course as I have said before, this is not a feature meant for us or to benefit us, but rather to protect Sony's I.P. (think music) (as well as anyone who wants to license Sony's proprietary digital security to protect their digital content), and guess who gets to pay for that feature, us. What all this talk about "secure" media implies (when stripped of all the colorful marketing euphemisms) is that customers are all potential "thieves".. Nice way to start to build a relationship.

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04-05-2001 03:37 AM

dalamar70
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 200

Re: Savage the Sony

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
The Clie may be a good product, but I will never support Sony and their self-serving efforts to foister the proprietary "memory stick" on us. As if, with both CompactFlash and SmartMedia, we needed another.

I think many people agree on this point, but I'll bet Sony can grab a good share of the new PDA buyers out there. Once they see a (presumably) nice color screen with "higher" resolution, audio capabilities, PalmOS, and the big Sony name, they're sure to be impressed. If you don't need any expandability, the Clie would be the fullest-featured Palm PDA right out of the box, a step below a PPC, and there's probably a market for that.

04-05-2001 03:55 AM

Matthew Nichols
Member

Registered: Nov 2000
Location:
Posts: 714

Re: Mad As Hell

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
Just as the industry was moving, in a general way, toward broad-based adoption of CompactFlash, Sony had to go out and come out with their own proprietary product...Both CompactFlash and SmartMedia have plummetted in price over the past year; what about the Memory Stick?

I guess you'll never support another product from Iomega (PocketZip), Toshiba/Panasonic (SD), or any other company with a competing technology? Memory stick is hardly CompactFlash's only competing product. Infact I believe CompactFlash is soon on its way out, it has yet to displace SmartMedia as the leader in devices (Especially MP3 players), and it looks like most new devices, especially for the Visor, are supporting the new MMC (Just like Palm is).

Memory Stick prices will fall soon supposedly, with the introduction of larger sticks.

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04-05-2001 06:05 AM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

For purposes of future clarification:

Iomega Zip Drive = Good
Immation Superdisk = Bad

Palm OS = Good
Windows CE = Bad

SpringBoard Modules = Good
MMC Modules = Bad

Allaire Coldfusion = Good
Microsoft ASP = Bad

802.11 Wireless Devices = Good
Proprietary Wireless Devices = Bad

Visorcentral = Good
Cheap PDA Knockoff Sites = Bad

These are black and white issues for me. Can you think of any others?

04-05-2001 01:15 PM

mikegold
Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 38

quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Nichols
You're angry at Sony for trying to push their own technology? Sony makes very good products and if the memory stick is really doing that bad then they'll drop it, just like betamax. I wonder if people were complaining when they invented the tape or the CD.

Sony did not invent the compact disc. I believe it was a group project,led by Phillips.

04-05-2001 02:24 PM

homer
Member

Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1683

quote:

Iomega Zip Drive = Good
Immation Superdisk = Bad

I'd say:

Iomega Zip Drive = Poor Quality Product
Immation Superdisk = Poor Quality Concept

quote:

Palm OS = Good
Windows CE = Bad

Eh. Both have plusses and minuses. I prefer Palm OS

quote:

Allaire Coldfusion = Good
Microsoft ASP = Bad

Well, HERE is where you are being hypocritical. Coldfusion is the proprietary system, ASP is not. In theory, you should be for ASP over Coldfusion.

Both are good, and Coldfusion certainly is going to move more towards open-standardness with Macromedia's ownership.

quote:

802.11 Wireless Devices = Good
Proprietary Wireless Devices = Bad

Can't argue that. I'd have to add:

all cell phone companies in the US = Bad

Going back to the topic at hand (what WAS the topic?) sony product are better BECAUSE they make new technologies. They don't always work, but we need companies like Sony (and Apple) to push new technologies out the door. You, of course, do not need to support them, but I do think that Sony, overall, is good for the industry. After all, if Sony didn't take things into their own hands, how long would we have had to wait for a 320x320 Palm OS device to come out?

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04-05-2001 04:06 PM

BertBert
Member

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 125

I think if a Visor user gets upset with Sony using a proprietary technology like the Memory Stick, that might be a case of the pot calling the kettle black -- what's the Springboard, if not a proprietary solution?

Say want you want about Sony, but their products are extremely well-made. I have a Sony boom box at home that I got 16 years (!) ago and it still works fine, as does my Sony portable CD player that I got over 10 years ago. I have no recent experience with Sony, so things may have changed, but their products in my experience have exhibited a level of craftsmanship and durability that a lot of other companies, especially recently, have sorely lacked. Whatever happened to building a product that you don't have to upgrade every two years?

That said, I do agree with the original poster that proprietary technology is holding back the industry, at least in the sense that no stable "industry standard" in removable storage seems to have emerged. The flexibility of the Visor to handle all sorts of media, in my view, still makes it the best bet.

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04-05-2001 04:16 PM

Keefer Lucas
Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Atlantic Rim
Posts: 570

Scientific Notation

Note that I never said that Sony made a poor quality product.

In many respects the Springboard was more a "revolutionary" solution than a proprietary solution. If you are first to market with a new technology I tip my hat to you. If you come along after-the-fact (as Sony has done) and try to muscle your way into the market with your own "take" on existing technology I suggest that you aren't exactly furthering technological innovation. I am actually not an especially big open source fan; I expect that Microsoft ASP will eventually kill ColdFusion (which is the only reason ASP is open source).

But do remember to thank Sony when all your freely aquired MP3's become inaccessible on Sony devices.

I will admit to a wee bit of jealousy over the Clio's nifty jog dial though ; )

04-05-2001 06:16 PM

mensachicken
Member

Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 443

Re: Mad As Hell

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
Just as the industry was moving, in a general way, toward broad-based adoption of CompactFlash, Sony had to go out and come out with their own proprietary product

perhaps i'm mistaken, but i believe the existence of the memory stick predates the use of ALL expansion capabilities in ALL PDAs. the memory stick was not developed for the clie, but predated it as well.

sure, sony did not have to include its own format in its own pda, but why wouldn't they? you're asking them to adopt someone else's format... but not condemning palm and handspring for not including the memory stick (which was around before any visors were) into their products? i don't follow this logic.

mc.