VisorCentral.com - 2002: a Year of Transition

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
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-- 2002: a Year of Transition (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=30756)

Posted by K. Cannon on 12-30-2002 04:06 PM:

Oh my

As a member of VisorCentral since (well, I can't remember, but you can look to the left and see), I had been actively wondering where James has been. (As well as some other favorites, Bobby-Mike, bkbk (okay, sort of kidding about that last one))

His very brief two sentance mention of the reason why he hasn't been writing was perhaps personal information, but it was the reason, nevertheless, that has been keeping him from writing. I would have expected him to say if the reason were that he had been hospitalized or that he was overseas doing missionary work or that his carpel tunnel had been acting up. And, in spite of the implication above, please note that there is also a difference in a person who WRITES for visor/treo central and someone who POSTS on visor/treo central.

As has been amply pointed out, we can surmise many things about posters here based on their avatars, signatures, posting-style, etc. Some of us like this/some don't. Those that don't like to really know their fellow VC or TC'ers typically, but evidently not always, use impersonal avatars and signature lines and aliases. Some of us are genuinely interested in others whom we have gotten to know through frequent visits/questions/answers/chats here at this site.

Frankly, I am more annoyed by the assumption that no women visit this site and the blatant over-generalization of the emotional differences between men and women, as referenced above. But even that doesn't really annoy me all that much--let's live and let live around here, eh?
Kelley

Posted by Toby on 12-30-2002 04:30 PM:

Re: Too much information

quote:
Originally posted by tommygreen
Is it just me, or is James' comments about his divorce just a little TMI?

It's just you. The thing that drew people here (I'm reading this from VisorCentral's message board), and still keeps many of them coming despite having moved on from Visors was a sense of community and camaraderie. That means even the moderators and site administrators are real people with real problems. The man (the main voice of the site originally) hadn't been very active on the site lately, and made a comment in passing to explain his absence. Coming from someone who makes their sig a personal crusade against diabetes, I'd think you could show a bit more understanding and compassion.

To James: Sorry to hear it. Hope things turn out as positively as possible.

Posted by Toby on 12-30-2002 04:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
[...] The more I hear and see the less I think I will ever get married.

If you live your life by this logic, I know of a nice cave you could move into.

Life is meant to be lived, not avoided.

Posted by KRamsauer on 12-30-2002 04:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

If you live your life by this logic, I know of a nice cave you could move into. Life is meant to be lived, not avoided.

There actually is substantial evidence that married people are happier. Of course the whole issue of causality hasn't yet worked itself out (that would be a fairly hard thing to ethically assign under experimental conditions) but most psychologists tend to think it is a net positive. Which leads me to one of my favorite links of all time:

How to Be Happy

__________________
<a href="http://www.kurtramsauer.com">KurtRamsauer.com</a>

Posted by Toby on 12-30-2002 04:44 PM:

Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
[...] Frankly, I am more annoyed by the assumption that no women visit this site and the blatant over-generalization of the emotional differences between men and women, as referenced above. [...]

I didn't notice any assumption that no women visit the site. I also saw only a general assumption in differences due to socialization, not differences due to genetics. Granted, those are going to be anecdotal and will likely vary by generations (since there are socialization differences).

Posted by fixitgal on 12-30-2002 05:41 PM:

Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

I didn't notice any assumption that no women visit the site.

KC, I'm going to have to agree with Toby on this one. There was no mention of any such assumption, at least not one that I could perceive. You and I know that there are a few women on this site...

I also believe that men and women handle "emotional" support differently. And that's a good thing... Men (usually) just don't talk about "feelings," and yes, that is a generalization. I am really surprised that guys are even talking about this stuff...

I've found that this forum is an exception to a lot of generalizations, and I've enjoyed the discussions (mostly...) The major obstacle has been the starkness of the written word, since there's no visual clues to enhance the message. Sometimes that makes it hard to interpret the meaning, which makes the choice of words (and spelling...

) even more important.

Now if you and I were having this discussion over hot chocolate (or a mocha) it would be much more interesting!

__________________
"When I am Empress...Heads will roll!"
Queen of Parts

Posted by Toby on 12-30-2002 06:19 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by fixitgal
[...] The major obstacle has been the starkness of the written word, since there's no visual clues to enhance the message.

It's easy for me. Pretend that Ferris Bueller, Commander Data, and Mr. Spock were genetically spliced (which would be interesting considering that Data didn't have genes), and you've got a pretty good take on how to read most of the things I write.

quote:
Sometimes that makes it hard to interpret the meaning, which makes the choice of words (and spelling... ) even more important.

It all resolves down to spelling, doesn't it. Poor Ducker.

quote:
Now if you and I were having this discussion over hot chocolate (or a mocha) it would be much more interesting!

How about a beer (well except for Ducker

)? That'd be more interesting. Hmm...difference between the sexes: men having conversations over a beer; women over cocoa/mocha? Discuss amongst yerselves. I'm all verklempt.

Posted by MarkEagle on 12-30-2002 07:46 PM:

Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
...two sentance...

Originally posted by Toby
It all resolves down to spelling, doesn't it. Poor Ducker.

Hmmm... maybe we shouldn't pick on poor lil' Mikey so much?

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
The thing that drew people here (I'm reading this from VisorCentral's message board), and still keeps many of them coming despite having moved on from Visors was a sense of community and camaraderie. That means even the moderators and site administrators are real people with real problems.

Toby's point here is a valid one. We (the staff) are people, too. The fact that James (or any one of us, for that matter) felt comfortable enough to tell his friends here a piece of extremely personal information says a lot about the VC/TC community.

Here's hoping the New Year is better for all of us...

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Posted by Toby on 12-30-2002 07:57 PM:

Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
Hmmm... maybe we shouldn't pick on poor lil' Mikey so much? [...]

Oh, the humanity!!

Posted by K. Cannon on 12-30-2002 08:41 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by fixitgal
KC, I'm going to have to agree with Toby on this one. There was no mention of any such assumption, at least not one that I could perceive. You and I know that there are a few women on this site...

Wow! A first time for everything!! Agreeing with Toby!

I think it was more of my perception based on the way it was written. This part specifically "Women gain status during divorce; men lose it... While women go through great pain ...their peers, both friends and total strangers...receive news of the event as just another life�s passage or event ...The divorcing woman is pampered by her female friends ...All this special attention helps the woman maintain a psychic compass and middle ear balance as she weathers the storm."

My perception also comes from previous postings by various posters here.

quote:
I also believe that men and women handle "emotional" support differently. And that's a good thing... Men (usually) just don't talk about "feelings," and yes, that is a generalization. I am really surprised that guys are even talking about this stuff...

I was speaking to the assumption that all women GIVE emotional support as outlined ("Meet Marge who's going through a divorce" gives her "elevated" status...). I don't disagree that men and women handle emotional issues differently...I don't know if James' relatively innocent two sentence (Yes, MarkEagle sentEnce!!

) statement merited the response, even though it was well-written and intelligently composed, albeit generalizing, by NateS.

quote:
I've found that this forum is an exception to a lot of generalizations, and I've enjoyed the discussions (mostly...) The major obstacle has been the starkness of the written word, since there's no visual clues to enhance the message. Sometimes that makes it hard to interpret the meaning, which makes the choice of words (and spelling... ) even more important.

It might be that same lack of face to face contact that makes the forum an exception--guys and gals communicating without trying to picture each other naked, etc...DOH!! Now I'm perpetrating the myths...Heck, I think I've even switched my position from this morning...but, hey, women's perorgative, right, guys?? Uh, guys....?

quote:
Now if you and I were having this discussion over hot chocolate (or a mocha) it would be much more interesting!

Sorry, F-I-G, I'm with Toby on this one--I'd rather have the beer!!
Kelley

Posted by K. Cannon on 12-30-2002 08:43 PM:

Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
Hmmm... maybe we shouldn't pick on poor lil' Mikey so much?

Toby's point here is a valid one. We (the staff) are people, too. The fact that James (or any one of us, for that matter) felt comfortable enough to tell his friends here a piece of extremely personal information says a lot about the VC/TC community.

Here's hoping the New Year is better for all of us...

Darn you, "MarkEagleEyes"

Posted by K. Cannon on 12-30-2002 08:46 PM:

Thanks KR!

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Which leads me to one of my favorite links of all time:

How to Be Happy

Great Link. I'm printing them up for the Fridge here in the breakroom and at home...
Kelley

Posted by Toby on 12-30-2002 08:58 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
Wow! A first time for everything!! Agreeing with Toby!

Dontcha hate when that happens?

quote:
[...] Heck, I think I've even switched my position from this morning...but, hey, women's perorgative, right, guys?? Uh, guys....?

heh...'prerogative'.

quote:
Sorry, F-I-G, I'm with Toby on this one--I'd rather have the beer!!

I suppose there's hope for the battle of the sexes yet.

Posted by K. Cannon on 12-30-2002 09:01 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
heh...'prerogative'.

If I were vain, I'd go Edit my post. Instead, maybe I'll change my name to M. (for Mikey) Cannon....

Posted by fixitgal on 12-30-2002 10:10 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
How about a beer (well except for Ducker )? That'd be more interesting. Hmm...difference between the sexes: men having conversations over a beer; women over cocoa/mocha? Discuss amongst yerselves. I'm all verklempt.

Beer? Not today... It's cold and rainy here (yes, it does rain in California) and I'd much rather have something warm and toasty. Now if it was summertime, we'd have a nice cold beer out by the pool...

So it's not a "difference between the sexes," just a personal preference based on the weather...

__________________
"When I am Empress...Heads will roll!"
Queen of Parts

Posted by fixitgal on 12-30-2002 10:14 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
Wow! A first time for everything!! Agreeing with Toby!

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Dontcha hate when that happens?

Yeah, it is kind of scary...

__________________
"When I am Empress...Heads will roll!"
Queen of Parts

Posted by AbortRetryFail? on 12-30-2002 10:33 PM:

quote:
Frankly, I am more annoyed by the assumption that no women visit this site and the blatant over-generalization of the emotional differences between men and women, as referenced above.

I'm not sure if you were referring to my post (it was just 'above' your post, but you seemed to be directing your comments more towards NateS) but let me assure you I make no such assumptions about whether or not women visit this site. The issue is irrelevant to me.

As I am a male, I can therefore only speak from my personal experience; but I have also studied thousands of psychological and social studies on the issues of gender roles and have worked for years in single-gender organizations.

I found NateS comments valuable because of the unique experience he appears to have. Notice his opinion began: "My observation is...."

Because there are no definitive answers that I am aware of, we are generally forced to make generalizations. But sometimes the samples of "anecdotal" and empirical data are large enough samples that they may be considered useful for the purposes of understanding and potentially even "evolving". If the generalizations are wrong, then let's expose them as false and all learn together. I found NateS perspective valuable.

Why do girls tend to play with dolls and boys tend to play with guns? Is it nature or nurture? Why are there more men in jail than women? Can women be insensitive, cruel and cold? Can men be compassionate, sensitive, and warm? I thought we were way beyond these questions.

To "generalize" is to "to make vague or indefinite statements" according to Merriam-Webster. Why generalize? Because we are trying to discuss why an individual (presumably a male, although "tommy" could be a girl) raised the issue that James' brief mention of divorce was "TMI." I for one want to defend James as a potential "role model" for raising a difficult emotional topic. Again, generalization here, but guys don't tend to talk about emotional issues. Is it nature or nurture? A lack of "emotional literacy"?

I didn't think there was any "blatant over-generalization of the emotional differences" that was "annoying" or vulgar. (Definition of 'blatant' according to Merriam-Webster: "noisy especially in a vulgar or offensive manner.")

Kelley: I'm curious: what generalizations would you make about the emotional differences between men and women? Or would you choose to not make generalizations?

__________________
Have you ever noticed that the top of the stylus on the Treo looks like the eagle from the muppets?

Posted by Toby on 12-30-2002 10:52 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by fixitgal
Beer? Not today... It's cold and rainy here (yes, it does rain in California) and I'd much rather have something warm and toasty. Now if it was summertime, we'd have a nice cold beer out by the pool...

So it's not a "difference between the sexes," just a personal preference based on the weather...

Not AFAIC. Cold weather is perfectly suited for many of my favorite beers. A nice Samichlaus warms the spirit quite nicely. OTOH, it was shorts weather this morning here, so...

Posted by aarons12 on 12-30-2002 11:10 PM:

wow. what a thread this turned into! i couldn't even begin to start quoting and responding to all the stuff (at least, not without a better handle on HTML. if i have to do more than press the 'quote' button i'm lost)

battle of the sexes, beer vs. mocha, how men vs women deal with their feelings. and somebody agreeing with somebody who they never agreed with before!

anyway, the only thing i WILL say is that i'll take the beer but would rather share it with one of the girls

really, the comment i found most telling was that many folks share things in the somewhat anonymous online environment than would ever do so in a face-to-face. this has led to a lot of problems on line but also a lot of great friendships. i've been online since 1979 and the interplay has always been fascinating.

__________________
Change is a challenge to the adventurous, an opportunity to the alert, a threat to the insecure.

Posted by fixitgal on 12-31-2002 12:08 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh my

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Not AFAIC. Cold weather is perfectly suited for many of my favorite beers. A nice Samichlaus warms the spirit quite nicely. OTOH, it was shorts weather this morning here, so...

There's a great microbrewery close by that makes a really nice golden Wheat. That would probably be the only beer I'd consider drinking in cold weather. Otherwise I'd have an Irish coffee (but only if they use good whiskey and real whipped cream.)

Slainte!

__________________
"When I am Empress...Heads will roll!"
Queen of Parts

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