VisorCentral.com - Edge and flash rom

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor Edge (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=25)
-- Edge and flash rom (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=12914)

Posted by ice5339 on 03-12-2001 10:18 PM:

Well the Edge is out, and does not have flash rom.
They tell us that the OS can be updated by software patches and springboards.
Well they did a good job in keeping Visor deluxe owners with updates of the OS (not).
But when Edge owners start asking for an updated OS Handspring will most likely have a new product on the way, so they can forget about support for the people that bought the Edge.
If you think some software updates will be on the way in the future, forget it!

Next time im going with a PDA with flash

Ps. One of the forgotten Deluxe people

Posted by weberflo on 03-13-2001 02:26 PM:

If the Edge is Handspring's answer to the m505, i only can say "good job, but you've forgotten the most important thing: the FlashROM".
Didn't Handspring notice that the m505 will have the next version of PalmOS, 4.0 ? Don't they think that the newest OS is necessary for the Edge? When the m505 comes out many people will buy this one because it has a newer OS.

Posted by critic on 03-13-2001 02:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by weberflo
If the Edge is Handspring's answer to the m505, i only can say "good job, but you've forgotten the most important thing: the FlashROM".
Didn't Handspring notice that the m505 will have the next version of PalmOS, 4.0 ? Don't they think that the newest OS is necessary for the Edge? When the m505 comes out many people will buy this one because it has a newer OS.

What would make you say that? Most people buy PDAs for usefulness and looks. And besides that, there's not much difference between what POS 4.0 will offer and what POS 3.5.2H offers now.

I used to own a PalmIII, and let me tell you, every time I tried to flash the ROM and update the OS, I had problems, I had Hard Resets...so let me put it to you this way: FlashROM is overrated. Personally, I'm not worried - Handspring has always made good in the past by making the latest features available through patches, and I'm sure that if there's something worth stealing from POS 4, they'll make it available.

If people are going to buy the m505 over the Edge, chances are they're going to do it because of the color screen and assumed backward compatibility with Palm V-series accessories and sleds, not because it has PalmOS 4.

Would it be nice to be able to upgrade the OS directly, without patches? Sure. Is it really necessary? Nope. Because by the time I'm ready to trade up from my Prism to something new (probably sometime late next year), PalmOS 5 and the ARM processors will be available, and THEN you're going to see some changes. (And if Handspring doesn't allow for their OS5/ARM models to be Flash-upgradeable then, I'll line up right behind you for the Palm model.)

Posted by dennya on 03-13-2001 03:17 PM:

I see the point about flash ROM -- I'd really like to have it to. It's definitely an issue, but it's not a huge thing in this case. Why?

Well, first of all, these are the major improvements that will be offered by OS 4.0:

Already in Visor's Palm OS 3.5.2H:
1) 16-bit color support
2) USB Sync support
3) Expansion card support (Although it's not identical,
Handspring's had this since the start)

Coming in 4.0 and not in the HS version of Palm OS:
1) Web clipping (missing, but can be added with the
Mobile Internet Kit software. I have it on my Prism)
2) Attention Manager for alarms and for communication
device notification. (Not in 3.5.2H)
3) Exchange libraries (basically, extends "beaming"
concept to other wireless technologies)
4) Security improvements

So the 4.0 improvements are certainly nice, but they're not major architectural changes, and the built-in apps aren't going to change much at all from what Palm said. Most of the stuff coming in 4.0 can be added through software if you need it.

As for 5.0, that's the HUGE upgrade. Palm said it's not even certain 5.0 will be released for current devices--it's very geared towards the capabilities of the ARM machines, and any Dragonball release will be a "slimmed" version. At any rate, but the time 5.0 does come out (Palm says 2002, and if they make that, I'm guess *late* 2002), you won't want to flash some 16MHz Dragonball handheld, you'll want to upgrade to a 300MHz ARM-based Palm OS device anyway.

Would Flash be nice? Certainly. But given the above, I don't think it's critical. There's really nothing in 4.0 that I need on my Prism that I can't install through add-on software.

__________________
Denny Atkin / [email protected]
Editor-in-Chief, Handheld Computing Magazine / www.hhcmag.com

Posted by dick-richardson on 03-13-2001 05:16 PM:

It'll be interesting to see if Palm even keeps the flash RAM in the m500 series. They dropped it from the IIIxe's replacement. Any rumors about the m500 series having flash are just that so far, rumors. Some of the rumors regarding the edge were color, 16MB of memory, and a cost closer to $350 than $400.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Garcimore on 03-13-2001 08:27 PM:

yes in fact
flash roms is an acute issue for Handspring because now it is the only thing that could stop them from conquer the world

Since the beginning Handspring decided to not put a flash rom it is now in their policy

But the thing is that in front of the consumer who buys such expensive object they should make a flash module as it was supposed to be at the beginning

so the only thing we could do is wait and see

__________________
All about PDAs but especially for the Visor in french for the moment
www.Toopalm.com
<a href="http://www.Toopalm.com"><img src="http://garcimore.online.fr/p/bangarci.gif" border="0"></a>

Posted by Fat_Man on 03-13-2001 09:06 PM:

I agree completely. Flash ROM is not only over-rated, but I think it's unnecessary. Palm OS 4.0 has only very few modifications compared to the OS 3.5, the modified Handspring OS 3.5 2H has most of the Palm OS 4.0 features already.

If I didn't know any better, Palm could have just re-packaged Handspring's OS 3.5 2H and labled it Palm OS 4.0.

By the time Palm OS 5.0 comes out, you will need new hardware to support the OS anyway.

__________________
Fat's

Posted by bookrats on 03-13-2001 10:46 PM:

Palm OS 5.0 -> Visor says goodbye to Palm OS?

quote:
Originally posted by Fat_Man
By the time Palm OS 5.0 comes out, you will need new hardware to support the OS anyway.

Yeah; apparently current Palm software (i.e., written for Palm OS 4.0 and earlier) will be run under Palm OS 5.0 using an emulator.

Given this, Palm OS 5.0 would be a logical point for Handspring to break all ties with Palm, i.e., start using their own OS -- as long as they, too, have an emulator for current Palm software. (Maybe that's all they license from Palm.)

I'm not advocating this (as a developer, who wants to have two platforms to write for?). But given the talent that the Palm founders brought over to Handspring with them, I'd be surprised if Handspring's SW team wouldn't like to take the drivers seat, design-wise, and be able to steer the Visor in directions other than those dictated by Palm's OS.

__________________
Jeff Meyer

"And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."

Posted by Lucky_One on 03-14-2001 04:45 AM:

Critical File Storage

quote:
Originally posted by Fat_Man
Flash ROM is not only over-rated, but I think it's unnecessary.

There is one main reason why Flash ROM would be very handy on a Visor. Many are now starting to use Compact Flash Adapters and even SmartMedia Adapters. The problem with these cards (and this is NOT HandSpring's fault) is that they are NOT compliant SpringBoard devices which automatically install the necessary drivers when inserted into the SpringBoard slot.

In the case of a Hard Reset the CF adapters would be worthless until the drivers could be installed in some fashion. Flash ROM would make it possible to install these drivers 'permanently', so in case of a hard reset it would then be possible to access 'back ups' on CF cards etc.

Yes, there is the Backup Module, but I'd like to upgrade my Platinum to 16MB. Instead of buying a 16MB SpringBoard to 'Backup' my handheld, I'd rather use cheaper CF cards. MatchBookDrives will soon be bundling JackBack with their CF adapters just for this function.

In short, Flash ROM can be used to store critical files, not just allow for OS updates.... but I did upgrade to a Platinum to take advantage of some OS specific features.

: o

Posted by weberflo on 03-14-2001 01:55 PM:

quote:
Coming in 4.0 and not in the HS version of Palm OS:
1) Web clipping (missing, but can be added with the
Mobile Internet Kit software. I have it on my Prism)
2) Attention Manager for alarms and for communication
device notification. (Not in 3.5.2H)
3) Exchange libraries (basically, extends "beaming"
concept to other wireless technologies)
4) Security improvements

So, why did Palm it call PalmOS 4.0 anyway? I didn't know exactly what's new in 4.0, but i expected much more than this few improvements. That's rather a 3.6 than a 4.0.

Posted by dick-richardson on 03-14-2001 05:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Garcimore
yes in fact
flash roms is an acute issue for Handspring because now it is the only thing that could stop them from conquer the world ...

And limited resolution and sound capabilities.

Edited to add: Sony just threw a wrench in the works with their new device. It's a good thing my tax refund won't be here for a month � it'll take that long to decide which one to get (unless Sony doesn't release the new Cli� in the States).

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Morris on 03-14-2001 08:04 PM:

Forget flash ROM - I'm more concerned about the lifecycle of the SpringBoard modules I've been accumulating. I assume that my VDx would die someday, and that I would upgrade to the unit of the day - with whatever Palm OS it has. The potential lack of transferability between Handspring units, as illustrated by the fact that Handspring has instituted a de facto second SpringBoard standard with the Visor Edge, makes me very concerned. To pay $100 and more per module, and then to be obsolete within two years - that's corporate irresponsibility on Handspring's part.

Where is the outrage? I'm gonna go look for a new CLIE.

Posted by miradu on 03-14-2001 10:16 PM:

Palm hasn't deserved to go past 3.5. They have done little or no "imporvements" to ther os. I mean, compare win3.1 to Palm 2.0. Win 95 to Palm 3.0, and win 98 to palm 4. There jsut aren't any improvements in the palm os, but the windows do have them. Palm is concetrating to uch in it's hardware, - which is a failed buisness - and not as much into there OS, which is going to make them the MS of PDA's. INSTEAD of putting R&D into the OS, there making there lisences devleop everything, and than they include that in there codebase.

Palm needs help. There hardware sucks, and it's just not working. There OS has no improvements in it. WHEN!?!?! will things get better?

-miradu2000
400.. Ahh.. sweet victory

Posted by Bane on 03-14-2001 10:38 PM:

Holy duh

Duh; enough with the complaining about flash. Its old and its not a valid reason to complain.

Its not the flash that people are *****ing about its software feature updates. No one would say a damn thing about flash if handspring ever cared to follow through and release the aformentioned software feature updates. They say flash is unimportaint because handspring will release OS updates. I have yet to see a/an feature update. If my visor dlx can do "X" and 3.5h adds "Y & Z" why not patch me up for "Y & Z" support? And when I called and asked support if since the visor edge cannot be OS upgraded if it were possible to send me one with palm OS 4.0 when that is released. I was nearly scoffed at. I swear that the next sales person or support person that tells what flash is unimportaint because handspring will release software updates will be informed and then thru mindcontrol forced to take a large 21" crt display and shove it right up their ass. I realize that salesmen are trained liers and
support people are fired if they deviate from company policy on pretending product design flaws dont exist.
But I can only lisen to people lie so many times with out correcting someone.

BS is BS non-negotiably. And a lie is a lie. I have no problems with the fact that it is a non-updatable machine. It is simply a fact until further information is presented to prove it wrong. But to listen to marketing types bable on with halftruths its like lisning to inNOgear. Its drivel. If I wanted to be lied to and pay for it I'd join a therapy group or something.

The truth is a ***** because it cuts really deep.

__________________
Bane

Evil Geniuses kick ass.

Posted by [email protected] on 03-15-2001 10:34 PM:

you people are missing the thing that makes it palmos 4. support for other filesystems. you can jsut stick cards in the palm and it automatically reads it no matter if its formatted for dos, or sd or whatever. on the emulator, you can even brouse through your hard drive with palmos4.

has anyone actually confirmed the edge doesnt have it? i wouldnt put it past handspring to be like, oh yeah, we forgot to tell you that we included flashrom. heres your update to visorOS v1. have fun. or something along the lines of you put in a springboard and it reflashes your machine.

Posted by yardie on 03-16-2001 04:00 AM:

Got Me thinking

quote:
Originally posted by [email protected]
you people are missing the thing that makes it palmos 4. support for other filesystems. you can jsut stick cards in the palm and it automatically reads it no matter if its formatted for dos, or sd or whatever. on the emulator, you can even brouse through your hard drive with palmos4.

has anyone actually confirmed the edge doesnt have it? i wouldnt put it past handspring to be like, oh yeah, we forgot to tell you that we included flashrom. heres your update to visorOS v1. have fun. or something along the lines of you put in a springboard and it reflashes your machine.

I think this is plausible. Some posters here have said that they have Flash Rom chips in their Platinums. Perhaps the edges have these installed as well.

Posted by TOYboy on 03-17-2001 01:15 PM:

FlashROM is overrated. I have a IIIx I am currently running POS 3.0 on it! I figure I am not going to upgrade the OS until I run into a problem.

Software updates would be great though.

Posted by dalamar70 on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM:

other uses for flash rom

personally i would like flash rom just so i can REMOVE the stupid expense and datebook apps.

Posted by dick-richardson on 03-22-2001 03:52 PM:

Re: other uses for flash rom

quote:
Originally posted by dalamar70
personally i would like flash rom just so i can REMOVE the stupid expense and datebook apps.

Not to mention the ability to put some of your own information in there and have it survive a hard reset. It's not a big deal to me because I carry my backup module on my person, but it'd be nice.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by ashmed on 03-24-2001 06:40 PM:

I thought Handspring didn't put flash rom in the visors becuase their version of the OS is customized for visors specifically. I dont' think they want to deal with people who upgraded their VDX from 3.1 to 4.0 just to find out that the springboard slot will no longer work. Yes it would be nice if they would release some OS upgrades, I have a VDX myself, but if they were to include flash rom we'd find a lot of people on these boards yelling about how they upgraded their OS and now their springboards no longer work.

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