VisorCentral.com - Prism vs Palm505?

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor Prism (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=19)
-- Prism vs Palm505? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=18555)

Posted by bradhaak on 10-03-2001 03:14 AM:

gadgetguru - No offense intended in what I was saying earlier about the Prism display outside. Yes, I have tried your method along with every other method, up to and including tucking my head into my jacket to get a dark area (that'll get you some really strange looks). In my opinion, the Prism is unacceptable outside unless the sun is down (night). Have you ever used a reflective device (m505, Clie 610, 710, 760, Compaq ipaq, Amigo, HP Jornada 56x) outside? I suspect that if you used one for any amount of time you wouldn't defend the Prism so strongly. If your main usage is inside, that's great for you, but it doesn't make the Prism a valid choice for outside use. Personally, the size and covenience of the m505 in all lighting conditions more than makes up for the superiority of the Prism in one lighting condition. Again, this is my opinion and no more or less valid than yours.

As far as expandability is concerned, this is not a valid point for me. I bought my first Visor the day they became available on the HS web site. Since then, I have bought exactly two modules - the backup and the memory expansion. For these uses, the expansion on the m505 is more than adequate, as is the memory stick port on the Sony. I suspect that for most users this is also true.

It's actually kind of sad, because it appears to me (opinion again), that the SpringBoard is dying. When the first Visors came out, I was very enthusiastic about the concept. but after two years, the number of modules is very low and sales appear to be low also. The news the other day about the SoundsGood module is typical. Sales aren't good enough to make continued production reasonable.

I think the problem comes down to price and convenience. Most of the modules are at least as expansive as their non-SpringBoard equivalents. For instance, I can get a 640x480 digital camera for less than a hundred bucks. How much does an EyeModule 2 cost? So why should I buy the EyeModule? the convenience is not worth the money for most people. MP3 SpringBoards cost more than stand alone MP3 players. The same is true for GPS systems. The VisorPhone only became reasonable when HS started dumping it for end-of-life. It's kind of a vicious circle, prices are too high on modules, so people don't buy enough of the modules to lower the prices.

It turns out that the only modules that are reasonably priced are the ones to expand the memory. So you still have to buy the module and then buy the memory itself. Except for the ability to choose the type of memory that you want to use, this is inferior to the m505 and Sony, since they have the memory interface already built-in.

Like I said, it's kind of sad, but I don't think that for most people, the SpringBoard is a valid selling point.

Posted by Randy_M on 10-04-2001 09:35 PM:

OK, now that the Prism is $299, I went and looked at them (had a bad case of Prism envy), side by side with the CLIE and M505. Mind you, this is just at the Best Buy counter, so there is no outdoor comparison. I totally agree that the Sony has a noticably nicer display, but the price difference is now $150!

At $299, the Prism has just now become affordable to me (my VDX is just 6 months old, and there is a WAF to consider). The others remain outside my price range.

For me, the decision has been made.

Cheers

Posted by Crustytrusty on 10-04-2001 09:52 PM:

Brad'HACK' - now I am a misguided wretch?

Why? because I questioned your opinion of what "awsome" means? bwahah

Before you start mud slingin' in a public forum you should think young jedi...think before you write.

Anyways.... shouldn't you be out in the middle of a corn field on a bright sunny day playing with your 'awsome' m505? tee hee

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Posted by bradhaak on 10-05-2001 12:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Crustytrusty

Brad'HACK' - now I am a misguided wretch?

Why? because I questioned your opinion of what "awsome" means? bwahah

Before you start mud slingin' in a public forum you should think young jedi...think before you write.

Anyways.... shouldn't you be out in the middle of a corn field on a bright sunny day playing with your 'awsome' m505? tee hee

This is called humor. That is why there was a picture of a winking smiley face. I'm not saying my sense of humor appeals to everyone, but there was absolutely nothing to give offense. Most people would understand that the extremely melodramatic statement followed immediately by the winking smiley meant that the statement was "tongue-in-cheek".

I didn't sling any mud your way, but I am severely tempted now. Evidently you are allowed to disagree with me, but I am not allowed to disagree with you. Sorry, there aren't any corn fields around here, but I will be at Palm HQ tonight and HandSpring tomorrow. Just visiting friends. Some of them are pretty corny, but I guess that isn't what you had in mind.

Opinions are personal and not right or wrong. Everything that I said was specifically labelled as such. Once more, this might have been clear if you read the entire post (and subsequent posts). If you want to get into facts and specific knowledge of the phenomena that we are discussing, let me know and I will post as much data as you would like. I have been specifically working with flat panel technology at the hardware level, system software level and application level for over a decade. while your opinions are just as valid and important to you as mine are to me, I can absolutely guarantee you that mine have a much broader base of fact and experience.

Also, when you are trying to post something to look witty and insulting, it would help to not misspell the key word of your conclusion. Especially not one that you put in quotes. there is a perfectly good spelling checker on the board ('tho it does crash too often).

BTW - Rather than the m505, lately I have been playing with my new HP Jornada 568. Guess what? It has a reflective display. This means that it looks great in direct sunlight - who have guessed.

Have a good one,

Posted by yardie on 10-05-2001 01:00 AM:

No Comparison

With the Visor Prism now at $299, it cannot be compared with the M505 or Sony Clie. It is almost the same price as the crappy Palm IIIC.

I suspect that HS is going to make a killing on volume sales. Expect to see monochrome phased out within 12 - 18 months.

Posted by bradhaak on 10-05-2001 01:27 AM:

Re: No Comparison

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
suspect that HS is going to make a killing on volume sales. Expect to see monochrome phased out within 12 - 18 months.

I think that you're probably right for everything except the the lowest of low-end entry-level devices. The visor/m100 class will be around for a long time and probably settle at the hundred dollar level where monochrome displays will still be acceptable.

Posted by Crustytrusty on 10-05-2001 01:27 AM:

heheh that took some time.

So does the HP jordana look 'awsome' outside?

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Posted by SassKwatch on 10-05-2001 02:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak

I have been specifically working with flat panel technology at the hardware level, system software level and application level for over a decade

At the risk of introducing some thread drift here.....

Given your experience, can you tell me why we've not seen any wireless monitors in the pc world? As we've had wireless keyboards and mice for some time, I would have to assume there must be some technological hurdle involved in producing such a beast.(?)

I ask because with flat panel monitors approaching affordability for the avg Joe, it would seem the natural next step would be to make them wireless....and accessible by any device with a compatible standard/protocol.

And while it would be *pretty cool* to leave the desktop pc on my desk in it's appropriate corner and just plop a monitor, keyboard, and mouse on the coffee table in the living room, it would also be ***WAY KEWL*** to have a flat panel monitor on the coffee table accessible by the PDA (choose your own flavor) sitting on the Stowaway keyboard. That would be about as ideal a mobile computing solution as I could want.

Somewhere in the not too distant past, I read a blurb about an upcoming 'sled' for the iPAQ that would allow a *wired* connection to a pc monitor that I found very enticing....at least in theory. If such a beast could be produced with a wireless connection, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Any thoughts??

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Posted by bradhaak on 10-05-2001 03:31 AM:

I suspect that the reason that nobody is working on wireless flat-panel displays is purely a bandwidth issue.

A 1024x768 panel runs at about 50 hz. Yes, this is lower than an acceptable value for a monitor, but acceptable for a panel. Once you add in the hoizontal and vertical blanking, a 24-bit mode uses almost 2.5 MB per second. At a refresh rate of fifty frames per second , you are using almost 125 MB of data per second.

That number is megabytes not megabits. Multiply by eight and you would need a 1-gigabit (1 billion bits per second) wireless network. I don't think that anybody is hitting this kind of speed even in research labs.

If you wanted to run 1280x1024 or 1600x1200, the numbers get even more ridiculous.

If you wanted to do it on a monitor instead of a panel multiply the flat panel number by 1.5 to get a value for 75 Hz refresh.

Posted by bradhaak on 10-05-2001 03:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Crustytrusty
heheh that took some time.

So does the HP jordana look 'awsome' outside?

You know, you were starting to get under my skin, but then I looked at your other posts and realized that your parents must have forgotten to put a password on their computer.

Go ahead and play, I don't mind.

Posted by SassKwatch on 10-06-2001 02:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
I suspect that the reason that nobody is working on wireless flat-panel displays is purely a bandwidth issue.

Thanks for the explanation. I figured there must be a technical issue involved. It just seemed like too natural a next step to have *me* be the one to propose it.

Would a wired Springboard with VGA ooutput be a significant hurdle?

Thanks again.

Sass

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Posted by dampeoples on 10-06-2001 03:00 AM:

I was looking at the Palm site, it seems that the SD cards are just software and everything else is a clip on, can you use a keyboard and modem at the same time?

Posted by bradhaak on 10-06-2001 04:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by SassKwatch

Would a wired Springboard with VGA ooutput be a significant hurdle?

There is one already. Look at the Margi "Presenter To Go" at http://www.presenter-to-go.com/. It is primarily for presentations, but also has a mode where the screen of your Visor is projected on displayed directly on the monitor.

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