VisorCentral.com - Size fixation???

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor General Chat (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31)
-- Size fixation??? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=15584)

Posted by ubik on 06-01-2001 05:44 AM:

I am really curious. For years I carried a notebook (the paper kind) on a clipboard, with a pen, everywhere I went, in case I had an idea or piece of information I needed to keep track of. Then, many years ago, a wondrous product called the PalmPilot came out and suddenly I no longer needed any notebooks or binders or clipboards any more!

Now all I hear people talking about in any forum or article, is how "bulky" the average PDA size, oh excuse my rudeness, I meant to use the proper term Form Factor, is, and how antiquated the Springboard form factor is, because it is also ridiculously bulky.

Are you people trying to hide your PDAs in the sole of your shoe or something?!

I don't understand this fixation of making PDAs smaller. The original PalmPilot/Visor/Handera were already smaller than a paperback book, and barely bigger than a pack of cigarettes. How small does it need to be? I can carry 4 standard Springboard modules in my pockets, and hardly notice they are there. What is the benefit of making it all smaller, except to show that you paid more for your unit?

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Posted by bblue on 06-01-2001 05:52 AM:

Good Point...

Good point, but there are people who don't WANT to feel their Visor/Palm clunking around in their Pocket all day. They want it to be barely noticeable, just enough so that it won't fall out. I personally think my VDX and my IIIxe are a little on the ungainly side. I mean, these are people who want to be able to store their entire life organization in something that would fit almost unnoticeably in their shirt pocket.

The smaller it is, the more comfortable it is to carry around, and the less obtrusive it is. I think it's a MAJOR part of buying a PDA, since it is what led to the downfall of otherwise "stellar" PDA's. My Palm-OS handhelds don't get toted around too much in my pocket, so I'd be more inclined to buy an M505 for it's looks. Hey, it's the same price as the Prism..... and it looks better! (well... not the screen... indoors.... in dim lighting... )

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Posted by culo77 on 06-01-2001 07:09 AM:

I am still freaked out by how small my VDX is compared to carrying my planner, A paper note book, wallet for my picture, pen, a watch, Another note book for my classes in college, runing to a computer in between classes to check & write my emails, borrowing a yellow pages to find places, asking people where is the best place for lunch & the newest club to go to, and finding a computer to write my term papers.
Well if i would carry all that i would die after walking two blocks. Now with my VDX i dont have TWO BACKPACKS to carry.
Really how small do people want it. Next think it will probably be invisable or
even plant the next Handspring product into our head with the springboard module plugged into our butt crack so the is no unsightly buldges.
I am more than happy with the size of the VDX If it gets any smaller i will probably lose!
what ever happend to the phrase "Bigger is Better"?

Posted by thorin on 06-01-2001 07:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by culo77
Really how small do people want it. Next think it will probably be invisable or
even plant the next Handspring product into our head with the springboard module plugged into our butt crack so the is no unsightly buldges.

Hmm.. if that's where the expansion goes, I think I'd rather have a m505... SD cards are a little smaller....

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Posted by ubik on 06-01-2001 08:36 AM:

Re: Good Point...

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
Good point, but there are people who don't WANT to feel their Visor/Palm clunking around in their Pocket all day. They want it to be barely noticeable, just enough so that it won't fall out. I personally think my VDX and my IIIxe are a little on the ungainly side. I mean, these are people who want to be able to store their entire life organization in something that would fit almost unnoticeably in their shirt pocket.

Of course the smaller things are, the more places you can carry them, but that is like arguing that a motorcycle makes the best pickup truck, because you can park it more easily.

What gets me is that I constantly hear people talking about how unsightly, ungainly and cumbersome PalmPilot sized devices are, yet I know people who manage to walk around every day with completely concealed .45 Cal pistols (I live in Texas, where people do that sort of thing). Now, if a person can comfortably carry a .45, so that no one can see it, how in the world could a PalmPilot be too big to be comfortably carried?

To me, the smaller sized units really start getting to the point of negatively effecting the performance of the unit, for example the ridiculous Springboard sled for the Edge or the less than stellar screen performance of the m505, and aside from bragging rights, I don't really see the benefit gained from these ultra thin devices. As though the afore mentioned drawbacks are not bad enough, now we have people screaming for MP3 players small enough to fit in an SD slot, without changing the size of an m505, and saying that Springboards are too big if they have to use a sled for the Edge. Call me crazy, but I would *rather* have a slot big enough that it can accommodate all the available formats (Card Flash/Secure Digital/Memory Stick/Smart Media/Media Play), and a handheld large enough to accommodate that slot with no additional hardware.

It reminds me of the calculator watches of the '80s. Sure, it's great that we have shrunken a calculator down to the size of a watch, but what does it get you except a calculator that you have to use with a pen?

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Posted by akur on 06-01-2001 09:01 AM:

I agree with you, Ubik!

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Posted by linguas on 06-01-2001 02:17 PM:

Then there's the screen size: does anybody really want a smaller screen? I find the size of the Visor's screen to be just within acceptable limits - anything smaller (such as the m100's) is just too uncomfortable to read IMO. One invariably starts to make "compromises" in the persuit of smaller size, many of which I feel just aren't worth it!

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Posted by gbgood on 06-01-2001 03:40 PM:

I need function over form.

My Vdx was the 1st hardware/software to meet and exceed my expectations, ever. From day one, it was a welcome extension to my brain. The 'search' function was the immediate upgrade from my Dayrunner. And the improvements came daily after that, by way of s/w and h/w.
When I was ready to purchase again, for color (mainly text reading of manuals), the choice was between m505 and Prism.

I REALLY LIKED THE FORM of m505, but that screen(aaahhhhh!).
SO FUNCTION won again.
I went with the Prism, and have not looked back once.
It works and works and works, and that's what I really needed.

Now I have the 64mb/memplug and the size is still the same. That's what I call an upgrade!

ps. in color, the text in MUCH more legible for major reading and I was really taken by the SplashPhoto app and now have the surprise pleasure of photos on my Prism.

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Posted by Rico on 06-01-2001 04:11 PM:

I think consumers do appreciate smaller PDA's to a point. I am reminded of cellular phones. The first ones reminded me of WWII walkie-talkies! As they got smaller (probably battery technology at work there) I think that really contributed to their acceptance.

That said, I agree that screen size on a PDA has to be considered. I think the m100 and m105 screens are a little too small. But that's beginning to split hairs, isn't it? Ha!

We are a picky bunch...

Posted by homer on 06-01-2001 04:31 PM:

quote:
yet I know people who manage to walk around every day with completely concealed .45 Cal pistols

Hmm....now there's an idea...the 45 caliber springboard.

Only in America

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Posted by BobbyMike on 06-01-2001 08:02 PM:

Too big of a caliber. I could probably put together a .22 short one shot for you. (Don't ask though, my hourly rates on prototypes would kill you.)

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Posted by Yorick on 06-01-2001 08:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BobbyMike
Too big of a caliber. I could probably put together a .22 short one shot for you. (Don't ask though, my hourly rates on prototypes would kill you.)

So might that module.

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Posted by homer on 06-01-2001 08:58 PM:

Perhaps a stun-gun module woule be more appropriate!

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Posted by bblue on 06-01-2001 09:07 PM:

Re: Re: Good Point...

quote:
Originally posted by ubik

Of course the smaller things are, the more places you can carry them, but that is like arguing that a motorcycle makes the best pickup truck, because you can park it more easily.

True, (the M105!) , but if you only need a pickup to carry an ATV, and otherwise you're driving it through the city, you'd be happier with the Dodge Dakota than a full-size Ram pickup.

What gets me is that I constantly hear people talking about how unsightly, ungainly and cumbersome PalmPilot sized devices are, yet I know people who manage to walk around every day with completely concealed .45 Cal pistols (I live in Texas, where people do that sort of thing). Now, if a person can comfortably carry a .45, so that no one can see it, how in the world could a PalmPilot be too big to be comfortably carried?
Well... maybe both are too much! j/k . I never minded the PalmPilot form factor. (I also liked the styling trick palm used to make its III series seem less cumbersome!) , but it was still a tad obtrusive. I guess here in Cinci, that makes more sense.

To me, the smaller sized units really start getting to the point of negatively effecting the performance of the unit, for example the ridiculous Springboard sled for the Edge or the less than stellar screen performance of the m505, and aside from bragging rights, I don't really see the benefit gained from these ultra thin devices.

While I wish there was brightness control, I think the M505 has a very nice color screen. Until the CLIE comes out, it's also got the most versatile one of all PALMOS devices! The M505 is part fashion statement, and part portability. You can store it in your shirt pocket, and not be bothered. Also, nobody will ever call you a nerd because you own an M505. heheh...

As though the afore mentioned drawbacks are not bad enough, now we have people screaming for MP3 players small enough to fit in an SD slot, without changing the size of an m505, and saying that Springboards are too big if they have to use a sled for the Edge. Call me crazy, but I would *rather* have a slot big enough that it can accommodate all the available formats (Card Flash/Secure Digital/Memory Stick/Smart Media/Media Play), and a handheld large enough to accommodate that slot with no additional hardware.

I personally think Springboards are a big large. Also, keep in mind, the Palm already supports SD & MMC , both of which are (or will be) standard technology. I don't think Palm will have trouble getting stuff developed for the SD slot with the exception of the Mp3 player.

It reminds me of the calculator watches of the '80s. Sure, it's great that we have shrunken a calculator down to the size of a watch, but what does it get you except a calculator that you have to use with a pen?
Except the M505 does almost everything the Pilot does (and more) , and I'm pretty sure there's a minimal screen difference. At least I didn't notice one.

Nonetheless, you're correct about it when speaking in terms of the M105. It is, in almost every way possible, worse than the IIIxe.

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Posted by Rob on 06-01-2001 09:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ubik
I am really curious. For years I carried a notebook (the paper kind) on a clipboard, with a pen, everywhere I went...

Really? Everywhere? Even to the grocery store, out to the mall, when you are in the park, when you are at your friend's house? If so, then you're right, no reason to want something smaller. For many people, though, I think a larger PDA's bulkiness would make them leave it at home or work or in their briefcase more often, so they won't have it handy when they have to look up their grocery list or give their friend a phone number. I personally wore my Prism on a belt clip case and it kind of bugged me, as I often bumped my forearm on the case when walking, and always had to adjust it when getting into my car. My Palm m505 is much less obtrusive, so I can whip it out to play F1 Sprint while my girlfried is trying on shoes or looking at purses or whatever...

Posted by Yorick on 06-01-2001 10:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
Perhaps a stun-gun module woule be more appropriate!

hey, yeah! The visor's about the same size, why not?

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Posted by Toby on 06-01-2001 10:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick
hey, yeah! The visor's about the same size, why not?

Talk about a battery drain!

Posted by ubik on 06-01-2001 10:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob

Really? Everywhere? Even to the grocery store, out to the mall, when you are in the park, when you are at your friend's house?

Yep, just about everywhere. I, of course wouldn't take it swimming with me, or to the beach, but I took it anywhere I would feel comfortable taking an electronic device.

I have taken something to take notes on, a cell phone and a camera, everywhere I go for for about ten years, and the only time it has ever presented any problem for me, is when I have to do something like going through an airport metal detector, or the odd activity like climbing a rock face or something of that sort.

I guess what I don't understand is that I keep hearing about how people wouldn't take anything that they couldn't fit in their shirt pocket, yet just about everyone I have ever worked with or known, regularly carries a dayplanner of some sort, an address book of some sort, at least one of some kind of writing implement, a wallet, keys, perhaps a sketch book or journal of some kind for the more artistically inclined, and the odd item like a camera, gun, flask, cell phone, cigarettes, contracts, pager, pictures, or a micro recorder or Walkman. Then, for women add in at least a minor amount of makeup and occasionally feminine hygiene products.

I have never heard anyone complaining that their Walkman is too big to take to the park, or for that matter that their cigarette case was too large to take with them, yet these items are on a par with most PDAs that are said to be too big to take everywhere. Where do you people keep your cell phones? Because I can only think of maybe three or four phones on the market that are thinner and weigh less than a VDX.

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Posted by septimus on 06-01-2001 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ubik
I have never heard anyone complaining that their Walkman is too big to take to the park, or for that matter that their cigarette case was too large to take with them, yet these items are on a par with most PDAs that are said to be too big to take everywhere. Where do you people keep your cell phones? Because I can only think of maybe three or four phones on the market that are thinner and weigh less than a VDX.

Well, hear me complain. I'm constantly trying to slim down the keys on my ring, my wallet, (formerly, my cigarette case, luckily, I've managed to slim that down to nothing!), etc. Lots of people want to be able to carry around the things you do, but they're not willing to comprimise comfort and ease for it.

And by the way, if we started inventory-ing small phones, we'd break 15 easily.

It's not that they're too big to take everywhere, they're too big for me!

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Posted by ubik on 06-01-2001 10:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn

And by the way, if we started inventory-ing small phones, we'd break 15 easily.

me!

I am not going to sit and list model numbers, but unless you are counting every variation of the StarTac design as a distinctly different phone, I do not think there are 15 phones that are less than 1.6cm (.63 inches) thick.

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