VisorCentral.com - Travel to Cuba

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Posted by recordond on 06-01-2001 06:19 AM:

I'm headed to Cuba in one week from Sunday with a group from my school. So my question is would you, if given the chance, travel to Cuba and why or why not.

--David

Posted by Vinny on 06-01-2001 10:31 PM:

I would not go to Cuba

There are better tourist spots that would be cheaper than going to Cuba. Cancun would be much more fun I'd think or even somewhere in Florida. I prefer to vacation places that are friendly to the US, so I like to stay in US territory, Canada, or I wouldn't mind visiting Mexico (Cancun specifically). Of course I'd love to travel to Europe and Japan--all countries that I'd feel safe in pretty much.

__________________
-Vincent

Posted by BobbyMike on 06-01-2001 10:35 PM:

I would go. My family is from the Caymans (other side of Cuba from FLA.), and we actually have distant relatives there. Also would like to see a place with tons of 50s and 60s American cars still being used on a daily basis.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by bkbk on 06-02-2001 12:15 AM:

I keep up a very healthy level of paranoia for very, very good reasons. (Hey, anyone see "Conspiracy Theory" w/M. Gibson & J. Roberts the other day? A classic!)
Can't Fidel just dictate that you can't leave his country if he gets a wild hair up his ass? Or have you shot? Is it really worth going to such a place?

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Posted by RSGMOOSE on 06-02-2001 12:24 AM:

Agreed!

quote:
Originally posted by bkbk
I keep up a very healthy level of paranoia for very, very good reasons. (Hey, anyone see "Conspiracy Theory" w/M. Gibson & J. Roberts the other day? A classic!)
Can't Fidel just dictate that you can't leave his country if he gets a wild hair up his ass? Or have you shot? Is it really worth going to such a place?

Take your flak vest, your own water, and a boat in case you can't get back (with a compass).

Ask yourself this question, do you really want to travel to a country where people are getting into boats to try and get to America and drowing in the the process? Remember Elian Gonzalez [sic], just ask his mom!

If you do go, while your there, ask Fidel to give us the money that he took from all of the American businesses when he Nationalized the country back in 59.

And did you ever wonder why they drive all of those old Detroit tanks - it's called trade embargo and poverty.

__________________
Moose Man
I may be from the LEFT coast but that's not the correct political view in my mind!

Posted by recordond on 06-02-2001 02:25 AM:

My spanish teacher has been going there by himself for about the past year. He is taking a group of 20 of us for two weeks to La Havana. We will be staying in school dorms there and we will be interacting mostly with students. We are not going to have political debates like a group that went last year did. I would agree with the statment that as a tourist spot I would probabally rather goto Cancun but this should be a once in a life time opurtunity. I also didn't start this thread for Fidel bashing, not that I support him, but try to keep it somewhat clean.

--David

Posted by mensachicken on 06-02-2001 02:54 AM:

i know LOTS of people who have been to cuba for vacation. ALL of them have loved it--many of them return there in subsequent years. i've never heard a single bad thing about cuba from anyone that has been there. i've been told it is a beautiful, affordable place to visit. i would go for sure.

i bet you will have a wonderful time. do not let the paranoids on this board frighten you away from what will no doubt be an enlightening, eye-opening, and, last but not least, very safe trip.

then, when you get back, let us know what *you* think of the country.

mc

Posted by RSGMOOSE on 06-02-2001 03:26 AM:

You asked an opinion?

quote:
Originally posted by recordond
My spanish teacher has been going there by himself for about the past year. He is taking a group of 20 of us for two weeks to La Havana. We will be staying in school dorms there and we will be interacting mostly with students. We are not going to have political debates like a group that went last year did. I would agree with the statment that as a tourist spot I would probabally rather goto Cancun but this should be a once in a life time opurtunity. I also didn't start this thread for Fidel bashing, not that I support him, but try to keep it somewhat clean.

--David

David, don't mean it to sound like Fidel bashing. However, there are documented cases of Human Rights violations in and around Cuba hence the reasons for our countries trade embargos etc.

My opinion - I don't think that by going under any circumstances is the patriotic thing to do. It adds to their economy and sends the wrong signal. With that said, if your school, not your teacher, endorses the trip, then by all means go ahead. You are right, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity. But if this is a non-school endorsed trip, then I'd question the decision.

You are obviously old enough to make the decision and wise enough to asks opinions. The great thing is, free speech, here in America does allow a little bashing of anyone. I'm hesitant about supporting, albeit in your case minimally, any form of goverment that condones such behavior as historically shown by the Cuban regime.

Enjoy your trip but be careful, as you should be anywhere.

__________________
Moose Man
I may be from the LEFT coast but that's not the correct political view in my mind!

Posted by recordond on 06-02-2001 03:33 AM:

Moose, I thank you for your warning and I do agree with many points that you make. When I hear that the average person there makes $20 a month I know there is something drastically wrong. Like I said before I don't support Castro and am not trying to send the wrong signal by going nor am I trying to be patriotic. At first I was against the idea of going but then realized that it would be worth while. I also know that I won't see the real side of Cuba since we will see what Castro wants us to see. I think that something needs to happen to their government but the only thing that can happen to change it is another person like Castro who can get the support of the people and cause a revolution which I do not see anytime in the future. And if this does happen I would guess this person would end up as corupt as Castro.

--David

Posted by mensachicken on 06-02-2001 04:05 AM:

Re: You asked an opinion?

quote:
Originally posted by RSGMOOSE
David, don't mean it to sound like Fidel bashing. However, there are documented cases of Human Rights violations in and around Cuba hence the reasons for our countries trade embargos etc.

there are documented cases of human rights violations in america as well...

though two wrongs don't make a right, i am always dismayed when i hear americans diss other countries when there is so much wrong with their own land that they turn blind eyes and deaf ears to.

though i don't want to get into a flame war with anyone; just wanted to remind folks to look around them--injustices are everywhere, including your own backyard.

mc

Posted by RSGMOOSE on 06-02-2001 06:11 AM:

Agreed

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken

there are documented cases of human rights violations in america as well...

though two wrongs don't make a right, i am always dismayed when i hear americans diss other countries when there is so much wrong with their own land that they turn blind eyes and deaf ears to.

though i don't want to get into a flame war with anyone; just wanted to remind folks to look around them--injustices are everywhere, including your own backyard.

mc

I couldn't agree with you more and too turn a blind eye is just as inhuman as the people violating the rights of others. By no means is America perfect, but the fundamental difference is that here you can say what you want about the leader of the country without fear of persecution. If you were to say something similar in Cuba, I'd have a tendency to believe that you'd walk around always looking over your shoulder for the retribution squad.

I believe that most cases of human rights violations here are publicized in the media and hopefully will force a change to prevent future occurences. I'm not certain that the same attention is given to the Cuban violations within their own country since the media is extremely regulated.

That's a difference worth pointing out.

I'll say one last thing - I'd bet that this web site would never survive if the server was located in Cuba?

No flames - everyone is allowed their opinion.

__________________
Moose Man
I may be from the LEFT coast but that's not the correct political view in my mind!

Posted by dick-richardson on 06-02-2001 06:44 AM:

And America would just let Castro massacre a group of school children without repercussion.

Damn, guys! Let's think!

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by yardie on 06-02-2001 07:45 AM:

Re: Re: You asked an opinion?

quote:
Originally posted by mensachicken

there are documented cases of human rights violations in america as well...

though two wrongs don't make a right, i am always dismayed when i hear americans diss other countries when there is so much wrong with their own land that they turn blind eyes and deaf ears to.

though i don't want to get into a flame war with anyone; just wanted to remind folks to look around them--injustices are everywhere, including your own backyard.

mc

Amen to that! Capital punishment is a human rights violation IMO....not to mention others commited by so called First World countried that get swept under the rug.

Posted by yardie on 06-02-2001 07:48 AM:

Candians

Thousands of Canadians flock to Cuba every year. Everyone I know who have visited have loved it there. I am sure that David will have a great time.

Posted by BobbyMike on 06-02-2001 02:05 PM:

It is possible to separate the country from the man.
Cuba has a culture that preceded Castro, and alot of it has survived. You must remember that when Castro came into power, part of the reason it was so easy for him to take control was that the US supported Gov. was totally corrupt and alot of those 'American' business were mob controlled casinos catering to tourists.
I would hate to live there. I wouldn't like living anywhere but here. I love being an American. I would love to visit though, just as I would have loved a chance to visit the USSR before the deflation of communism. Being proud of being an American doesn't mean everywhere else sucks, they're just living with different histories. Part of learning consists of putting yourself into places that you are the stranger. You have to expose yourself to new things, ways, etc. (not that you HAVE to go to Cuba.)
You can't learn fully about another culture through books though. Books are always written from a particular point of view.
Visiting any other country where there are customs, involves a chance of you being detained.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by homer on 06-04-2001 02:34 AM:

quote:
There are better tourist spots that would be cheaper than going to Cuba. Cancun would be much more fun I'd think or even somewhere in Florida.

Hmm...Drunk frat boys and the Evil Mickey Mouse.

Yea, I can see how people would prefer that.

I've NEVER been to Cuba, but from what I understand, it is fairly cheap.

I'd love to go.

quote:
there are documented cases of Human Rights violations in and around Cuba hence the reasons for our countries trade embargos etc

I thought the embargo was because we just didn't like Fidel? Personally, I find the embargo a bit of a Human Rights violation. Opening Cuba up to American Tourism would do their economy a lot of good...not to mention we could legally support their industries.

When you go, just be sure to soak in the people, food (mmm....fried Plantins) and music!

And have a cigar or two.

__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne

Posted by recordond on 06-09-2001 10:16 PM:

Well I'm headed off tomarrow at 9:30 am PST. I was hoping to hit 100 posts before I left but have not. Once I get back I'll let you all know how the trip was.

--David

Posted by bkbk on 06-13-2001 02:43 AM:

Jeez, man, that's risky.
I wasn't trying to "bash" Cuba -- I was more concerned for the guy's life. It just seems so unnecessarily dangerous. I mean, pre-Web, maybe -- but now, you can prob. learn a ton about Cuba all over the Web (tho I bet it's censored or non-existent over there).
Yeah, it's not 100% the same: pix, video, sound, etc. are only a "virtual reality" aspect -- not the real thing. But 10 yrs. ago, 20 yrs. ago, ppl. had to settle for even much less than that.
Also, this "once-in-a-lifetime-opp." I'm just not so certain of. Fidel's an old man now -- prob. going to kick any day.
I'm assuming the class trip was for those a lot younger. I'd rather wait Fidel's death out, and maybe Cuba will be a much safer place in the near future.
Last, maybe Fidel won't "gun down a whole school bus, and see if the U.S. does anything about it" -- but maybe 1 or 2 or 5 of them "mysteriously disappear." And later, everyone's "sorry" and "nobody knows what happened," and they "hope it never happens again," etc.
But where does that leave you? In your life, to quote a writer who should be a lot more famous, "you're the ONLY deal."

__________________
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds." -- Albert Einstein

Posted by recordond on 06-24-2001 07:40 AM:

Well, I got back tonight. No one was gunned down, we left with 23 and returned with 23. One of our teachers is a French citizen and the INS guy was a complete ***** to her coming back in Miami. Other than that it was a great trip and I will post more about it later. My VDX and Stowaway also went with me and I was going to write on them during but the Stowaway driver got screwed up.

--David

Posted by BobbyMike on 06-25-2001 05:30 AM:

recordond wrote:
[B]"Well, I got back tonight...."[B/]

Welcome Back! Interesting that the only disagreeable part was getting back here.
Michael

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

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