VisorCentral.com - Are we setting ourselves up for disappointment again?

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor & Deluxe (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1)
-- Are we setting ourselves up for disappointment again? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=9088)

Posted by adfleisher on 11-02-2000 08:05 PM:

Re: Missing the point

quote:
Originally posted by golfnuthi
I think you are missing the point BigDrew. We were led to believe by HS that our units would be able to accept modules and that OS upgrades weren't necessary with the Visor.
While we may have been naive to think this would be true, it is too bad than HS played on everyone's naivity and enthusiasm.

No, I think you are missing my point. Handspring has lived up the their end of the bargain as much as they had the power to. This Visor Phone will be 100% compatible with current visors, and offer internet connectivity through several Cell carriers to all of us. But Hanspring has ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over what other developers for the technology decide to support. If we were running into incompatibility issues with Handspring manufactured modules I guaruntee I would be right here with everyone else screaming about being misled. But the fact of the matter is still that the company that invented the technology has to this point continued to support it's original product line, and I doubt that will change. Until it does, how about giving the company a break and limiting our flames to the people really responsible for our dilema?

BigDrew

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"Whoever said bigger isn't better...Lied!"

Posted by Visorholic on 11-02-2000 08:06 PM:

Well I think the problem does lie with Handspring on this one. The first Visor was cheap and justified the lack of Flash, but I for one refuse to buy another PDA like the Platinum without flash. I learned my lesson. I agree that that its Omnisky that limited the Visor users by requiring OS 3.5, but Handspring should start using flash so this doesn't happen again. The palm V's have been out for as long as the Visor's and they are now using the Omnisky service, why, because they have flash. So your correct about technology moving foward, but I think Handspring should have planned for this. I got fooled by the "we can patch it" scam once, but not again. This is the first and last device I by without flash. I'm in the process of buying a Vx now thanks to this fiasco. And I really liked my Handspring.

Posted by BertBert on 11-02-2000 08:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by adfleisher
How many of you pissed and moaned this loud when you found out you needed to spend $200 for a new video card when the killer 3D apps started comming out for your PC? Very few I'm sure, because you realized as most sane people do that the need for speed and keeping up with the Jones' drive this economy and your purchasing decisions.

On the contrary: I bought my VDx back in August, which was an upgrade from a Palm IIIx, for two reasons.

1. I needed more memory for the applications I wanted, which is a far cry from simply "keeping up". Indeed, the only other people I know who regularly use palm devices is a colleague of mine here at work (and I only discovered he uses a Visor after I had bought mine), and my wife (who now uses my old IIIx).

2. I wanted to buy a machine which I *didn't* need to get rid of in a matter of months in order to use new and useful hardware. The Visor, as indicated in Toby's quotes from the Handspring website, fit the bill. All indications of new hardware that I could possibly care about using -- including, I might add, wireless connectivity -- were stated in the context of being useable with the VDx.

So in fact, my purchase of the Visor was motivated by a desire *not* to have to "keep up with the Joneses" but rather buy one main machine and stick with it. So you have to realize the irony in this whole Omnisky situation. Nobody expects to use the same computer for years on end, and of course technology evolves, but this just seems to be happening with a speed that may make the VDx look like just a flash in the pan in another few months.

And please don't get me wrong here -- I do enjoy my Visor, and it is still the single most useful piece of high technology I own besides maybe my telephone. And I think that the Springboard concept is still an excellent one. The only thing I want to get across here is that I hope that Handspring and developers of Springboards are not dropping the whole VDx community like a hot rock now that the new machines are out.

__________________
BertBert
Mark 12:28-31

Posted by Jay on 11-02-2000 08:40 PM:

With Palm you can get either color or wireless but not both.

And Palm doesn't offer a $150 entry-level product.

And the other PDAs out there just don't do it for me, feature-wise or cost-wise.

I bought my VDx a year ago because it was affordable and it had enough memory to suit me. The springboard concept was a huge plus, which has certainly turned out to be, from my point of view

I was pissed when I realized I would have to upgrade to get the features I wanted, so in a huff I called Palm to see what they had. I found out that they didn't have anything I wanted.

So while I am disappointed that my VDx _might_ not have wireless capability, I still feel that Handspring is offering more value for the dollar than their competitors and they have price ranges that allow almost anyone to afford a PDA.

Oh! My Prism just arrived! Gotta go!

Jay

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Building a Boat & a Dream
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Posted by george_vc on 11-02-2000 08:49 PM:

Get on with it already ! Sell your deluxe on e-bay in 7 days, and take the $200 an upgrade to a 33 mhz processor, newer operating system and brand new 1 year warrenty. I'm having a hard time understanding what you think you are getting screwed out of. Besides, the newer machine will perform better with modem related apps on a faster machine. What are you really out ?

Posted by Visorholic on 11-02-2000 08:50 PM:

"What are you really out ?"
$100 bucks

Posted by golfnuthi on 11-02-2000 09:13 PM:

OS4?

I read now that OS4 will likely be released early next year.
I hope that those of you who "feel no pain" about having to upgrade to a Platinum/Prism are able to keep the positive attitude when your unit won't support modules running off this new version.

__________________
Jim

Posted by Gameboy70 on 11-02-2000 09:16 PM:

I think there's enough blame to go around. OS 3.3 for the Palm VII was available before the Visor was released, and if Handspring was taking wireless capability seriously, they should have included 3.3 -- not 3.1 -- in the Visor, since PQAs are significant to many would-be consumers.

But I can't help but wonder why Novatel or its carriers wouldn't support the VDX. The VDX and Solo make up 99% of the Visor's customer base. Not supporting them, from a business perspective, is nothing short of suicide. Does OmniSky, et al, seriously expect people to shell out another $299/$449 for the priviledge buying a $200+ modem?

Even if you blame Handspring on the upgradability issue, you have to give them credit for making the VisorPhone compatible with OS 3.1, PQAs or not. Besides, I don't know why anyone still wants the Minstrel after the VP's announcement.

__________________
Eye of Gameboy

Posted by Gameboy70 on 11-02-2000 09:21 PM:

Re: OS4?

quote:
Originally posted by golfnuthi
I read now that OS4 will likely be released early next year.

Actually, I read that OS4 won't be available until Palm incorporates StrongARM processors in Q1 2002.

quote:
I hope that those of you who "feel no pain" about having to upgrade to a Platinum/Prism are able to keep the positive attitude when your unit won't support modules running off this new version.

Like the Minstrel S today, incompatible modules are the ones I won't be buying.

__________________
Eye of Gameboy

Posted by golfnuthi on 11-02-2000 09:30 PM:

OS4

I stand corrected, the article I read mentioned 2nd half of 2001, not the first half.

Posted by AusPalm
Posted on Thu Nov 2 03:39:44 2000
{James: Palmstation has actually already ran this story on September 30, 2000. But since it seems some people never saw it, this one shall be left up to comment on.}
Carl Yankowski revealed a few details of an upcoming colour version of the Vx(c?) in a RealAudio interview at ON24. The highlights - colour Vx with SD slot in 1st half of 2001, and surprisingly he announced that the new OS (PalmOS 4.0 I'd assume) will be out 2nd half 2001. Thanks to PenComputing for the link. ...

__________________
Jim

Posted by george_vc on 11-02-2000 09:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Visorholic
"What are you really out ?"
$100 bucks

I thought you got a $100 upgrade coupon to platnium or Prism with a minstrel s ? Is that correct, if so $200 for the deluxe on ebay plus the $100 gets a new device, or is this not correct?

Posted by adfleisher on 11-02-2000 11:07 PM:

Your not even out that. With most of us planning on forking out the originally quoted $379, less the price reduction pre-release of $80, less the $200 dollar rebate for comiting to 6 months of service, less the $100 rebate from handspring for upgrading if you buy the Minstrel within 30 days, you are getting the upgrade to a Platinum and the Minstrel for a total out of pocket of $99 for a complete wireless solution. Not a bad deal from where I stand.

BigDrew

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"Whoever said bigger isn't better...Lied!"

Posted by raptor on 11-03-2000 03:01 AM:

Okay okay, has anyone had a direct, official word from Novatel Wireless themselves? If so, does the module itself work with standard Visors or not? The stuff I found on their site simply refers to the 'Handspring Visor', but doesn't specify between any of the family members.

I ask this because there are posts on other boards that claim Yada Yada's service works fine with a VDX. Check:

http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...p?threadid=9080

I've also read other articles stating that the modem itself works with OS 3.1, and that its merely the service provider's software that doesn't like the older OS. There are even other posts within these very VC forums that say Handspring will send you a replacement VDx with OS 3.5 so these services will work (I think the jury is still out on that one. I'm going to try it myself when I get back from my roadtrip over the weekend). That post is right here (it's toward the end, from poster Max Headroom):

http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...p?threadid=9032

We seem to have a lot of confusion going on here. Perhaps we should establish some facts before we re-ignite the anti-Handspring flames.

If the modem itself DOES work with standard Visors, then most of the fault lies with the service providers, as the modem manufacturer 'followed the rules' so to speak. If it does not work, well then we're back where we started.

__________________
-Richard Powell

"Nice guys may finish last, but you know, the company's much better back here."

Posted by Toby on 11-03-2000 02:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by adfleisher
Your not even out that. With most of us planning on forking out the originally quoted $379, less the price reduction pre-release of $80, less the $200 dollar rebate for comiting to 6 months of service, less the $100 rebate from handspring for upgrading if you buy the Minstrel within 30 days, you are getting the upgrade to a Platinum and the Minstrel for a total out of pocket of $99 for a complete wireless solution. Not a bad deal from where I stand.

You might want to check your math. What about the price of the Platinum? With those rebates, you've basically got the modem for free and paid full price on the Platinum, or got the Platinum for $200 and the modem for $99. Unless you were planning on upgrading regardless, your total OOP would be ~$299 (not including shipping). Or did you forget to mention trying to sell your current Visor for $200 (if you can get that)?

Posted by zelchenko on 11-03-2000 07:43 PM:

boycotting licensees

I've decided to boycott Springboard licensees until I see some movement towards resolving this fairly. Here's how I plan to do this:

Any memory expansion I employ I will use "dkessler"'s CF-adaptor plans. For web-connectivity, I will use the DataCord and SprintPCS webkit solution described in the following link:

http://discussion.visorcentral.com/...p?threadid=5570

If I want to get my wife the PDR, I will purchase the downloadable version and load it on a CF card. I will probably use the DataCord for GPS as well if I decide I need that.

Posted by zelchenko on 11-03-2000 07:47 PM:

handspring passed the buck

By the way--I got a reply from Handspring on my queries. They said I should take my concerns regarding OS-patches to Novatel. Nice, huh?

Posted by Toby on 11-03-2000 08:56 PM:

Re: handspring passed the buck

quote:
Originally posted by zelchenko
By the way--I got a reply from Handspring on my queries. They said I should take my concerns regarding OS-patches to Novatel. Nice, huh?

Interestingly enough, I finally received a response from Handspring today as well (after about three days). I'm still not exactly sure how I plan to followup, but the irony of this coming from a "CustomerCare" representative didn't escape me...

quote:
Handspring is a technology company constantly developing and releasing
new products. We do not offer upgrade or side-grade paths from one to
another, nor will we be accepting trade-ins. Technology companies must
revise and improve their product lines on an ongoing basis. Handspring
cannot pre-announce releases for competitive reasons like any other
innovative retailer. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have
caused.

Thank you,

Becki S.
Handspring CustomerCare

Speechless :X

Posted by PDAddict on 11-03-2000 09:31 PM:

Visor needs flashable ROM

Just my opinion, but I was extremely disappointed to see that Handspring did not include flashable ROM in the Platinum and Prism. Aside from the upgradability issue, the flash makes a great place to store backups of various databases and programs without having to buy or rely on a flash module.

I have a Palm IIIx with added RAM and flash (TRG xtra xtra Pro) and wouldn't have it any other way. I like the Visor - a lot - but think that the lack of flashable ROM really detracts from its overall usability and upgradability.

The argument that people just don't flash the ROM is also wrong. If you look at the Palms on e-bay, there don't seem to be that many IIIx's with OS 3.1. The ones I've seen have been flashed to 3.3 (or maybe it is just the ones that mention it). But the point is many people actually do upgrade the OS and in situations like this with the Visor, I think a vast majority would upgrade. Also, applications like TRG's FlashPro make great use of the flash ROM.

Posted by Derango on 01-01-2001 03:58 AM:

Palm does have a $150 entery product called the Palm m100.

Posted by BaseMan on 01-01-2001 05:34 PM:

I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread, but GoAmerica has just released the Minstrel S. In the box, according to my sales rep, there is a coupon for a FREE upgrade to an "enhanced" Visor Deluxe from Handspring. This enhancement will enable the modem to work with a VDX without interference. Actually, the Modem will work with a regular VDX, but there my be too much interference to work satisfactorily.

I'm assuming that OmniSky and YadaYada are imposing the upgrade to a Platinum or Prism due to their software (web browsers and communications) relying heavily on PalmOS 3.5

So it is really not Novatel imposing the OS upgrade, it is the wireless service providers.

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