VisorCentral.com - Pop Tart Fire -Who's Responsible

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-- Pop Tart Fire -Who's Responsible (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=17289)

Posted by dick-richardson on 08-01-2001 04:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
It's a conspiracy!!! This woman must be a distant relative of the one who sued McDonald's over the hot coffee.

I gotta speak up on this comment. That woman got a lot of flack for that, when in reality the coffee had a temp over 200� and that particular McDonald's had been warned repeatedly about the temp of their coffee. This is all from memory, so the specifics may be incorrect, but they had been warned and the coffee had been exceedingly hot. As opposed to a stupid broad who wants to collect on her idiocy.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by miradu on 08-01-2001 04:51 AM:

their are some crazy people in this world, aren't there?

I don't know who to blame, the fact that we might have one to many lawyers in the us, the merican ideas to sue for everything, or jsut the stupidity of someone.. *sigh*

I don't even have a toaster!!!! (or a microwave - my parents don't want either!?!?!?! crazy them!)

a fun poptarts story - on a road trip drivign through south dakota, I had meself a box of poptarts. Pop tarts are good, but after awhile, you really want them hot - so I said, hey! let's put it on the roof of the car!! It actually worked, and I had myself solar heated pop tarts soon after! wow.. I can't tell stories - today Minnesota has the highest heat index in the country, power's been out for more than 30 hours this last 3 weeks, and we lost everythign we had in the refrigerator, including 3 boxes of icecream bars!! now I'm ranting.. way off topic. XCEL energy (formalyl NSP) can not provide to my neighourboud. more thn 200 local buisness haven't been able to be open the last 2 days - every restuarant (about 30) lost their food

*sigh*

do yourself a favor, and download black&blue by BSB. it's an awesome song.

__________________
-miradu

Posted by RSGMOOSE on 08-01-2001 05:30 AM:

Questionable?

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

I gotta speak up on this comment. That woman got a lot of flack for that, when in reality the coffee had a temp over 200� and that particular McDonald's had been warned repeatedly about the temp of their coffee. This is all from memory, so the specifics may be incorrect, but they had been warned and the coffee had been exceedingly hot. As opposed to a stupid broad who wants to collect on her idiocy.

200K for hot coffee is a bit much. The original amount was about 1.3M as I recall. Granted if McD's had been warned about the coffee then they are partially at fault but I recall this lady had the coffee between her legs and the lid came off spilling on her lap. If she had had it in a cup holder or hadn't been driving then maybe it would be different. Also, I thought that McD's had agreed to her medical and offered a token amount for pain and suffering before it got to court. 200K probably - half went to the lawyers and now this lady is infamous for her own actions in my opinion. In this case it was an elderly lady that probably wouldn't have sued if a lawyer hadn't prompted her to do so - maybe the 200k is ok because their wasn't a warning label on the coffee cup.

Ok, now back to the subject at hand - to sue over leaving the toaster on is a different matter. This lady probably leads an empty life and has nothing better to do then watch TV all day and see the Lawyer ads that state if you have been a victim etc. This lady probably hasn't ever thanked a manufacturer ever for building or creating a product that solves her problem - someone needs to make a smart pill and an ethics pill for her.

__________________
Moose Man
I may be from the LEFT coast but that's not the correct political view in my mind!

Posted by dick-richardson on 08-01-2001 05:34 AM:

Re: Questionable?

quote:
Originally posted by RSGMOOSE
...someone needs to make a smart pill and an ethics pill for her.

Re-reading the article reveals that this is a couple. One should get kicked in the teeth, the other punched in the neck.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by RSGMOOSE on 08-01-2001 05:38 AM:

Re: Re: Questionable?

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

Re-reading the article reveals that this is a couple. One should get kicked in the teeth, the other punched in the neck.

I agree however, you could be sued for inflammatory statements.

And I wouldn't want to see that happen - gosh I hope no lawyers are monitoring these posts.

__________________
Moose Man
I may be from the LEFT coast but that's not the correct political view in my mind!

Posted by ToolkiT on 08-01-2001 08:01 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by RSGMOOSE

You are forgiven - thank goodness someone takes responsibility for mis-clicking. You are going to sue Visor Central for it though, are you?

Before he does that I'll edit the score so his 'yes' will become a 'no'

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Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Posted by ToolkiT on 08-01-2001 08:04 AM:

Re: Pop Tart Fire -Who's Responsible

quote:
Originally posted by RSGMOOSE
Take Responsibility for your own Actions or Inaction

Very well said, this is my nr. 1 pet peeve about the US, people can act stupid blame somebody else and actually making a buck out of it too...

__________________
<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Posted by BobbyMike on 08-01-2001 12:33 PM:

"Very well said, this is my nr. 1 pet peeve about the US, people can act stupid blame somebody else and actually making a buck out of it too..."

Don't blame us Americans for them lawyer types, people were suing each other long before we had a country! (Actually it's my number one pet peeve about people in general, ie. blaming someone else for their own stupidity)

Imagine knowing this couple before hand, and then seeing them later in the grocery store. What would you do, if anything? Congratulate them on their idiocy? ("Hey, heard you tried to burn your house down. How'd that go? Umm, really? Next time try gasoline in a closed container in your microwave. That should do the trick.")

Actually people like that have a divine purpose here on earth, they make us look smarter- even when we cook our pizza too long and it gets all black on one edge.

__________________
"I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

Posted by jhappel on 08-01-2001 01:12 PM:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
...the IRS doesn't tax insurance nor lawsuit payoffs.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Actually not entirely correct. The Internal Revenue Code does not tax insurance proceeds except in certain cases, this would not be one if all the couple did was co;;ect from their own homeowners insurance to repair damages. However, proceeds from lawsuits ARE taxable as ordinary income unless they are for personal injury. This case is about property damage so the couple would be taxed on the gross proceeds from the suit, if they were to win. In all probability their legal fees would be non-deductible because of the facts and circumstances of the case.

I know this as I used to be the tax manager for a CPA firm in NY.

__________________
Jonathan

Posted by Yorick on 08-01-2001 02:48 PM:

Re: Questionable?

quote:
Originally posted by RSGMOOSE
200K for hot coffee is a bit much.

now, if the coffee's temperature had been 200 k there wouldn't have been a problem. except she wouldn't have been able to drink it, it would have been a solid at that low a temp. (water freezes at 273.15 kelvins)

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The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.

Posted by K. Cannon on 08-01-2001 03:04 PM:

Re: The McD's Coffee Lady:
My memory is that the verdict was later reduced by an appellate judge. Where's the blame for the jury that awarded that excessive sum?

Re: Lawsuits in General:
I don't think some lawyer convinced the PopTart lady to sue, I don't think some lawyer convinced the Coffee/Crotch lady to sue. Most states' Bar Associations ban solicitation of clients, which is why attorney advertising is recent and caused such a big stink--them that wanted to had to convince the other attorneys that it wasn't soliciting a particular client to put a cheesy, generic ad on TV. I think America has "instant gratification" issues that result in over-litigiousness, lotteries, gambling, huge amounts of consumer debt, and general "when am I gonna get mine" attitudes. Not taking responsibility for one's own actions is rampant in society, not just in lawsuits.

On the other hand, making the losing party in every case pay the winner's costs would discourage those that have actual, meritorious cases (Ford Pinto, anyone?) from bringing them against "Big Business." Whistleblower cases, legitimate product defect cases, discrimination cases might not get brought if the little guy thinks he's up against the big guy (and his lawyer/judge cronies). Who decides if a case if frivolous? There could be things about the Pop Tart Lady's case that haven't been mentioned in the media. Most of the media coverage about the Macky-D's coffee case left out the fact that the coffee was over 200 degrees--I certainly don't remember hearing anything except the amount of the verdict and that the woman put the cup between her legs.

RE: Lawyers monitoring the posts:
Ya never know...

Posted by Tyrone Slothrop on 08-01-2001 03:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
RE: Lawyers monitoring the posts:
Ya never know...

I had to jump in on this thread. I'm a lawyer (but not a civil litigator; I practice corporate/regulatory law with a big firm). I agree that the pop-tart claim looks ridiculous and I certainly hope that it gets thrown out of court. But just because a few lawyers bring ridiculous suits like this should not taint the entire profession. The overwhelming majority of lawyers would have nothing to do with this sort of case. At the same time, the British system (under which the loser pays all attorneys fees) would definitely be a step in the wrong direction. Just to mention two prominent cases turned into movies, under the loser-pays system the plaintiffs in the case against PG&E featured in Erin Brocavitch (sp?) and the case against WR Grace featured in A Civil Action would never have gone forward.

Posted by Thunderbird291 on 08-01-2001 04:02 PM:

Re: Re: Questionable?

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick

now, if the coffee's temperature had been 200 k there wouldn't have been a problem. except she wouldn't have been able to drink it, it would have been a solid at that low a temp. (water freezes at 273.15 kelvins)

Psst...Yorick, I think he means a $200,000(200K) settlement.

Posted by Yorick on 08-01-2001 04:21 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Questionable?

quote:
Originally posted by Thunderbird291
Psst...Yorick, I think he means a $200,000(200K) settlement.

I'm aware of that. Is joke and social commentary. K (grand or thousand) vs. k (Kelvin), since the problem was the temperature of the coffee.

__________________
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Posted by RSGMOOSE on 08-01-2001 04:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

At the same time, the British system (under which the loser pays all attorneys fees) would definitely be a step in the wrong direction. Just to mention two prominent cases turned into movies, under the loser-pays system the plaintiffs in the case against PG&E featured in Erin Brocavitch (sp?) and the case against WR Grace featured in A Civil Action would never have gone forward.

No offense is meant towards all lawyers. Just the ones that jump on frivilous lawsuits such as the thread subject. However, I think that there is some room for a modified British system of charging were the loser pays. I have several customers that are being sued for a class action Asbestos situation and the lawyer has not intention of taking the issue to court. The firm is collecting moneys from the insurance company that represents a retailer(s). In each instance the retailer is named as a co-defendent and the plaintiff has never proving or shown where he purchased any product from the retailer.

In one case, the plaintiff died in 1965 and the defendent wasn't even in business at the time of that death.

The bottom line, to get back to the thread, is take responsibility for your own actions. If someone manufacturers a faulty product and that product when use as instructed or consumed as instructed, then maybe you've got a complaint. And if the manufacturer doesn't want to compensate you for your complaint then maybe - maybe you should see a lawyer.

There is a lot that hasn't been answered in this story:
How old was the toaster? Was it brand new or 10 years old? Had anyone performed the usual maintenance of cleaning out the crumbs from the bottom recently? Was there enough clearance between the toaster and the cabinets to allow for proper heat dissipation? How old was the PopTart? Had it been removed from the paper/foil wrapping? Was it past the date code? And considering that the evidence has probably been destroyed, how will the jury be able to come to a conclusion without the dead PopTart?

I'm awaiting the day that will be short coming if this case actually goes to trial and the plaintiff wins: Black and Decker will have to come to your home and inspect the location or intended location of the toaster site before you can purchase the $500 toaster that used to be $50 before the inspector option. Kellogg's won't be able to sell PopTarts to anyone unless they are proven as a "responsible individual".

This couple just cost much of the public probably a penny or more per PopTart and cereal box in order to fight the bad press from this stupid lawsuit. I hope Kellogg's sues the couple for wrongful lawsuit and takes over the couples house and then has a poptart promotion to give away the house.

__________________
Moose Man
I may be from the LEFT coast but that's not the correct political view in my mind!

Posted by dick-richardson on 08-01-2001 04:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm a lawyer

Jesus still loves you. I've been talking to Jesus all my life.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by RSGMOOSE on 08-01-2001 04:57 PM:

Thanks ToolKit

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

Before he does that I'll edit the score so his 'yes' will become a 'no'

I'm glad you fixed the poll and I'm glad you got your car back last week.

__________________
Moose Man
I may be from the LEFT coast but that's not the correct political view in my mind!

Posted by K. Cannon on 08-01-2001 06:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RSGMOOSE
I hope Kellogg's sues the couple for wrongful lawsuit

I do not know of a proper cause of action for wrongful lawsuit. Then again, I'm not an inventive Plaintiffs' lawyer.

Posted by MarkEagle on 08-01-2001 10:29 PM:

Hmmm, let me see here...

I'm driving down the road when I pull out my Visor to look something up. In the process, I veer off the road and into a tree. Can (should) I sue Handspring? After all, there's no warning about that in any documentation I received from them.

I could probably find a lawyer to take a case like this (sorry to all the goods ones out there, but there are plenty of bad ones, too). Product liability ventures out into some very gray areas. And our judicial system simply makes it too easy to make a quick buck.

On a recent re-run of Law & Order was the following line from a defense attorney: "what would a reasonable person do?". Well, I say a reasonable person wouldn't put a Pop-Tart in a toaster, turn it on, and then leave the house.

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Posted by BobbyMike on 08-01-2001 10:48 PM:

"On a recent re-run of Law & Order was the following line from a defense attorney: "what would a reasonable person do?". Well, I say a reasonable person wouldn't put a Pop-Tart in a toaster, turn it on, and then leave the house."

Oh, so now people have to be reasonable and responsible for their own actions? That's crazy! Idiots have rights too! You responsible, reasonable people can't go stompin' all over boneheads' rights. If they ever pull their heads out of their microwaves and are able to get their cars out of their pools, you're gonna see a revolution baby!

__________________
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