VisorCentral.com - VC awards: "Memplug OWNS the market"???

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- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- VC awards: "Memplug OWNS the market"??? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=18625)

Posted by hxh167 on 09-29-2001 08:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by volcanopele

I can see the usefulness of some flash space on the adapter but since I only have one SM card, I wouldn't benefit.

Jason

Why won't you benefit? I also only have one SM card but I can benefit from putting some applications in the flash of my Memplug. I can use it exclusively as my map module by put Mapopolis in flash and maps on SM card.

Posted by hxh167 on 09-29-2001 09:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Where did a true springboard with removable media storage exist prior to the Memplug (other than the minijam which didn't have the data storage capabilities it was supposed to)?

They didn't take the concept a step further. They just realized the concept. Have a new idea and realize an idea are two different things.

quote:
And AutoCF predated them both.

So what? You are attacking your own words.

quote:
Sure it does, but PiViewer is also included at no additional cost.

No, the cost is included in the module. It has never been "at no additional cost". It's totally a lie. It's there in the first place. I bought Memplug largely because PiViewer.

quote:
No more laughable than wanting to view high resolution photos on a 160x160 screen in the first place.

So PIT is laughable in the first place. Good point.

quote:
They have every right to argue that it's not necessary.

Yea, right. Except they are wrong in the end.
Good, looks like I have more jokes in a day than I have the whole past month.

Posted by alexmathew on 09-29-2001 09:17 PM:

CompUSA - a source of excellence?

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Can I walk into CompUSA and buy a FlashPlus? Ever consider that might be where the comment came from?[B]Not a bad analogy. Also not very accurate to the situation. If they were the only game in town, though, then why would they have bothered with an honorable mention? Also, if I can't get to Silver & Mission, why should I care about how great Joe's hamburgers are? [B]I was going to make an analogy here, but you've made it for me...[B]So if M$ doesn't own the market since there are other solutions around, GovCo should drop its anti-trust suit?

Hmmm..last I checked I could not buy a Domain name, a premier Yahoo account, and many other things from CompUSA or any brick and mortar store for that matter :-) Since when is being in CompUSA an indication of popularity or of excellence? :-)

How much ever you defend Memplug - and they have a great product to be defended - nothing you say defends a reviewer from simply dismissing a product - not based on its technical merits but by a vague "own the market" reference. A honorable mention after dimissing it is adding insult to injury.

At least this thread will give others some pause to think before they jump in and buy a storage solution.
Bye
AM

Posted by septimus on 09-29-2001 10:36 PM:

Re: CompUSA - a source of excellence?

quote:
Originally posted by alexmathew
Since when is being in CompUSA an indication of popularity or of excellence? :-)

It's an indication of quite a bit of cash. You may note that the memplug was also on Handspring's homepage for awhile.

this thread seems to have devolved into semantic jockeying.

Whatever the reason, the Memplug has a bigger market presence, especially in retail.

quote:
- nothing you say defends a reviewer from simply dismissing a product - not based on its technical merits but by a vague "own the market" reference. A honorable mention after dimissing it is adding insult to injury

I don't see the honorable mention as an insult. And the "injury" is slight at best. So I think everybody ought to elevate them guns a little lower.

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Posted by volcanopele on 09-29-2001 10:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hxh167

Why won't you benefit? I also only have one SM card but I can benefit from putting some applications in the flash of my Memplug. I can use it exclusively as my map module by put Mapopolis in flash and maps on SM card.

Why? Couldn't you also use PiDirect and put the Mapopolis in the PiDirect directory and the maps in /Palm/Programs/Mapopolis. If you have a VDX, use Launcher III to put Mapopolis in /Palm/Launcher and the maps again in /Palm/Programs/Mapopolis .

Jason

Posted by MarkEagle on 09-29-2001 10:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by volcanopele
Couldn't you also use PiDirect and put the Mapopolis in the PiDirect directory and the maps in /Palm/Programs/Mapopolis.

Sure... but then Mapopolis would have to installed on every card you plan to use; putting it in flash ensures it's always available whenever the module is installed.

__________________

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Posted by Toby on 09-29-2001 11:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hxh167
They didn't take the concept a step further.

Let's keep this in context. They took the concept of having a removable storage card adapter a step further. They made a real springboard where there were previously only adapters.

quote:
They just realized the concept. Have a new idea and realize an idea are two different things.

How exactly does 'taking a concept a step further' equate to 'having a new idea' in your world. To me, 'taking X a step further' clearly states that the idea isn't new.

quote:
So what? You are attacking your own words.

How am I attacking my own words. You seem to be having trouble deciphering the rather clear meaning of my words. I never claimed anything PIT did was innovative.

quote:
No, the cost is included in the module.

Again, you seem to be having trouble with CONTEXT. The sentence was referencing PiViewer and JPGView. PiViewer is included with the Memplug. JPGView is an additional cost.

quote:
It has never been "at no additional cost". It's totally a lie. [...]

*sigh* How is it a lie to say that PiViewer comes with a MemPlug, but if you have a FlashPlus and you want to view JPGs, JPGView will cause you to incur an additional cost?

quote:
So PIT is laughable in the first place. Good point.

Is English not your first language, or are you being deliberately obtuse?

quote:
Yea, right. Except they are wrong in the end.

How so? Do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence to refute their assertion?

Posted by dkessler on 09-30-2001 12:01 AM:

The VisorCentral moderators could save everyone a lot of trouble if they'd just resurect the MiniJam vs. Soundsgood thread from last year's awards and search and replace "Innogear" and "Good Technologies" with "PIT" and "Innopocket/Kopsis"

The only thing about the award that we (Kopsis) had a problem with was the implication that MemPlug has no serious competition (I won't argue semantics - regardless of what actual words were used, it gave some percentage of readers that "impression").

We can debate which module is better til we're blue in the face but the fact is that the staff of VC has made their pick. They posted their opinion regarding which module is best and I'm totally ok with that.

Congrats to PIT on the award! They're a great competitor and they've worked very hard to put out a good product. But we're not out of the game yet, and now that the public knows that (a fact that this debate has made abundantly clear), we're going to get back to the business of supporting our customers and making our products the best they can possibly be

__________________
<ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>

Posted by Toby on 09-30-2001 12:02 AM:

Re: CompUSA - a source of excellence?

quote:
Originally posted by alexmathew
Hmmm..last I checked I could not buy a Domain name, a premier Yahoo account, and many other things from CompUSA or any brick and mortar store for that matter :-)

Apples and oranges. The primary market for handhelds seems to have historically been at those brick and mortar stores. The accessories should also be available there in order to gain quicker adoption.

quote:
Since when is being in CompUSA an indication of popularity or of excellence? :-)

I said nothing of excellence, but if that's where the market is buying the main device, then the peripheral devices will gain popularity faster by being sold in the same arena.

quote:
How much ever you defend Memplug - and they have a great product to be defended

Well, that's kind of the funny thing here. I'm not defending the MemPlug here. If anything, I'm defending the concept of making rational and valid criticisms against it if you're going to criticize it. IOW, if you think the standard JPG viewer is inferior and the FlashPlus would hypothetically come with a better one included, make that your argument. Don't go highlighting one single hyperbolous statement in an award snippet which also says of the FlashPlus, "InnoPocket is excellent and very high quality product, and helped ignited the storage revolution that modules are undergoing."

quote:
- nothing you say defends a reviewer from simply dismissing a product - not based on its technical merits but by a vague "own the market" reference.

Hmm...by my observations, it wasn't dismissed at all. If calling something a very high quality product which helped ignite the storage revolution is a dismissal, then maybe I need to go back to English class.

quote:
A honorable mention after dimissing it is adding insult to injury.

Only if one is seeking to be insulted and injured.

quote:
At least this thread will give others some pause to think before they jump in and buy a storage solution.

Why should it give them pause? If they aren't going to pay attention to the reviews which are readily available for all of the solutions, you think they're going to go searching the message boards?

Posted by Toby on 09-30-2001 12:07 AM:

Re: Re: CompUSA - a source of excellence?

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
this thread seems to have devolved into semantic jockeying.

Perhaps, but it seems that I'm the only one riding a horse.

quote:
Whatever the reason, the Memplug has a bigger market presence, especially in retail.

Yep. If a year ago, someone would have made a comment that Palm owned the market, would people have been this upset? Probably, but a year ago, they did (even though I owned a Visor).

quote:
I don't see the honorable mention as an insult. And the "injury" is slight at best. So I think everybody ought to elevate them guns a little lower.

heh

Posted by septimus on 09-30-2001 12:30 AM:

Re: Re: Re: CompUSA - a source of excellence?

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Perhaps, but it seems that I'm the only one riding a horse.

LOL. Are you implying something about a donkey, or rather, an alternate name for such?

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Posted by alexmathew on 09-30-2001 12:46 AM:

Discussion boards...

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Why should it give them pause? If they aren't going to pay attention to the reviews which are readily available for all of the solutions, you think they're going to go searching the message boards?

Someone is a little lost on the concept of "discussion" boards

. Some of us love to listen and learn from other's experiences - not just a review. ... And we are listening to all that you have said so far - whether we agree or not - because its on a discussion board. Some of us dont get personal on discussion boards with hints about non-native English speakers because we know where that leads to.

I found out about the Memplug and the FlashAdpater from the VC discussion boards - long before the review was written.

and so it goes... we could keep arguing about this and since its already degenerating into name-calling, time for me to say ta-ta...
Bye
AM

Posted by hxh167 on 09-30-2001 01:41 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by volcanopele

Why? Couldn't you also use PiDirect and put the Mapopolis in the PiDirect directory and the maps in /Palm/Programs/Mapopolis. If you have a VDX, use Launcher III to put Mapopolis in /Palm/Launcher and the maps again in /Palm/Programs/Mapopolis .

Jason

No, that's not what I want. I have a VDX and I want my Mapopolis to be plug-and-play. If Mapopolis is in flash rom, I can still use the original launcher and it's totally plug-and-play just like the other applications on Memplug. I don't have to bother to use Launcher III. Of course I still have to put all maps in \Palm\programs\Mapopolis\ directory since it's assigned by Mapopolis. I use Launcher III and I bought it but I still want some of my programs to be shown in the original Launcher.

Posted by volcanopele on 09-30-2001 04:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by hxh167

No, that's not what I want. I have a VDX and I want my Mapopolis to be plug-and-play. If Mapopolis is in flash rom, I can still use the original launcher and it's totally plug-and-play just like the other applications on Memplug. I don't have to bother to use Launcher III. Of course I still have to put all maps in \Palm\programs\Mapopolis\ directory since it's assigned by Mapopolis. I use Launcher III and I bought it but I still want some of my programs to be shown in the original Launcher.

Okay, you're right, using Launcher III to run programs off the card won't let you use them on the original launcher. Personally, I haven't opened the built-in launcher in well over a month. In fact, screen shots with the built-in launcher look strange to me

When using Launcher III, which for me is now 100% of the time, all those programs I have in /Palm/Launcher run just fine. These programs run in a position like you would want to run programs off of flash. These programs are always available no matter which directory I have PiDirect set to. With only one card, that is really my only consideration on these matters.

I agree with Dave, we can argue about which storage module is better till the cows come home. If you are happy with the FlashPlus, great, fanstastic. I hope you continue to support Dave to make the product better. It does sound like he provides great customer service. If you are a happy with Memplug, as I am, then great. Support PIT so that Memplug becomes the best it can be.

Jason

Posted by yardie on 09-30-2001 06:24 AM:

I agree

quote:
Originally posted by volcanopele

One suggestion I would have for next year is to open the awards for a vote up to all Visorcentral registered members.

Jason

I agree wholeheartedly with this suggestion! At least there should be a seperate "Visorcentral Members" award or something like that.

I agree with the winner as well. Memplug does have a good product out of the box. BUT and thats a big but. They do not OWN the market. VC Staffers ought to choose their words carefully. this is the second faux pas is as many months about this issue. Anyone remember the review from Scott a few months back?

Posted by miradu on 09-30-2001 06:38 AM:

In no way did I mean to offend anyone by my comments, and in NO WAY! David, did I mean to say that the FlashPlus or FAFileMover is dead, or not a viable competitor. For people who took it that way, I apologize. The meaning of the first phrase got lost, but I still stand by my statement. My explanation:

A better term to use would be that the MemPlug leads the market, or the MemPlug owns the retail market. Therein lays my original meaning. I meant this for the brick&mortar retail. The average Joe visor user who wants more space, can go to the place they might of bought it (CompUSA maybe?) and get a module. Is a product bad if it's not sold at CompUSA? No! The Visor had killer sales, and it took more than four months for it to get into the retail market from when it was first released. I just didn't think that the FlashPlus had penetrated the consumer market as thoroughly as the MemPlug. Consumers when buying the MemPlug don't necessarily have to go through the problems of PalmGear, or have to worry about the security of buying from smaller sites on the web (which is a falsely lead fear - the small sites probably are safer than Amazon, being that hackers would go for the big sites and get thousands of credit cards, not a couple hundred, thats another discussion though ). Also I meant this, that in my opinion, throughout the year the MemPlug has been the leader. That may change though as new companies innovate, and new ideas come to the marketplace. Remember the rumers of the Innogear InnoDrive?

Both products are great products; that is why the FlashPlus got an honorable mention, it was a close second. Also both products wouldn't be around without each other. The MemPlug and the FlashPlus wouldn't be here without the original ideas by David Kessler, and the FlashPlus wouldn't be here without the MemPlug innovating the market further, and bringing flash into the module. Competition can be a very good thing, and I look forward to seeing how FAFileMover becomes better software and the future hardware that will be developed, as it things get older and more advanced. Whether it's positive or negative, I appreciate your comments; E-mail me at [email protected]

__________________

-Michael Ducker
-miradu2000
United We Stand.

Posted by yardie on 09-30-2001 06:45 AM:

Kudos

Michael. Thanks for the long and detailed explanation. It certainly make things a lot clearer.

Posted by hxh167 on 09-30-2001 12:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by miradu2000
A better term to use would be that the MemPlug leads the market, or the MemPlug owns the retail market. Therein lays my original meaning. I meant this for the brick&mortar retail. The average Joe visor user who wants more space, can go to the place they might of bought it (CompUSA maybe?) and get a module.

Actually, this is more complicated than you described. What's the percentage of Memplugs sold in retail market? How many Visor users have a CompUSA in their neighborhood area? The nearest CompUSA from me is 100 miles away (I live in central PA). We have OfficeDepot, OfficeMax, and Circuit City here, and BestBuy will open soon but no Staples and CompUSA. So the retail store question is meaningless to me (correct me if they are selling Memplug in the retail stores available here). If most Memplugs are sold in retail store (CompUSA), I will agree they own the retail market. Otherwise, since CompUSA is not as wide spread as other retail stores (at least in my area), saying "they own the retail market" doesn't mean too much to me. At least ordinary Joe cannot find it here.

Just heard they are going to sell Memplug in Staples. Good. Now it's only 40 miles away.

Posted by RAJarvisJr on 09-30-2001 02:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dkessler

The only thing about the award that we (Kopsis) had a problem with was the implication that MemPlug has no serious competition (I won't argue semantics - regardless of what actual words were used, it gave some percentage of readers that "impression").

We can debate which module is better til we're blue in the face but the fact is that the staff of VC has made their pick. They posted their opinion regarding which module is best and I'm totally ok with that.

Congrats to PIT on the award! They're a great competitor and they've worked very hard to put out a good product. But we're not out of the game yet, and now that the public knows that (a fact that this debate has made abundantly clear), we're going to get back to the business of supporting our customers and making our products the best they can possibly be

Dave truly is a gracious competitor.

Posted by septimus on 09-30-2001 04:06 PM:

Ok, now that everybody likes everybody, and nobody thinks anybody's going out of business, can we just let these threads die?

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