VisorCentral.com - Where can we get NEW batteries?

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor Prism (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=19)
-- Where can we get NEW batteries? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=28038)

Posted by JohnKes on 11-06-2002 08:13 PM:

Hooray!

Posted by eric2002 on 11-06-2002 09:11 PM:

yah, I have a feeling that as more Prism batteries die, more companies will be selling the batteries... this probably won't be a big issue in the future.

Posted by joelforman on 11-07-2002 01:31 AM:

How much?

Yipee!! I can really feel the decreased battery life in my Prism. I hope to nurse it along for as long as possible. With the upgraded 16mb of RAM and my VPhone it really does everything I want.

Did that rep from getadeal.com say anything about the price? the used ones at gethightech.com are $50.

Joel

Posted by eric2002 on 11-07-2002 01:40 AM:

He didn't mention a price, being that he's probably out of the office I'll inquire tommorrow. My battery only lasts for about 2 hours max on a full charge, it's dying also! I'll let you know what I find out about price, eric

Posted by Stardust on 11-07-2002 03:01 AM:

We brood over our Prism li-ions going senile. But aren't Tungsten and Sony Clie owners also on the same boat? I have yet to hear of a color PDA whose lithium-ion or lithium-poly battery can be replaced with the same ease as a Nokia cellphone, not to speak of the availability of the battery. The failure of PDA manufacturers to address this issue makes me believe that it's all part of what used to be called planned obsolescence.

Posted by WinHac17 on 11-07-2002 09:19 AM:

It is a marketing stratagy so that you buy a new one every few years they do it with apples ipod also. Which would be hard as hell to replace a battery in.

Posted by miradu on 11-07-2002 10:21 PM:

Many pocketpc's have removeable batteries. My Jornada does for example...

__________________
-miradu

Posted by Tonewiz2k on 11-07-2002 10:32 PM:

Hey. I'm back. I've been gone for a few months after I got my T615. Anyone remember me? Moving on...

I have a Sony NR70V and I was very pleased to notice a small door on the left side of the unit. There is one screw holding it shut. Removing the door I was directly exposed to the wires running to the battery, with a plastic clip to disconnect it. I imagine that you could remove the battery by disconnecting the clip and sliding it out of this opening. This would make battery replacement very easy.

__________________
"Take me where my future's lyin', St. Elmo's Fire." - John Parr

Posted by JohnKes on 11-07-2002 10:34 PM:

See? It's not that hard.

I would be happy if they just used a somewhat standard, available battery. I'm handy with a screwdriver and soldering iron. Why do they have to use weird-shaped custom batteries?

Posted by Prismer2 on 11-07-2002 11:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JohnKes
See? It's not that hard.

I would be happy if they just used a somewhat standard, available battery. I'm handy with a screwdriver and soldering iron. Why do they have to use weird-shaped custom batteries?

Comparing cell phones to high-end PDA's is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes, they could use standard batteries, but whose standard? Nokia's? Ericcson's? Motorola's? There is a lot of variations even within one Manufacturers line of cell phones!

The custom battery, when mass-produced for an OEM like Handspring is cost-effective to manufacture and aids the designer in minimizing physical size of the product. What is a crime is that Handspring has not made replacement batteries available for purchase at a reasonable price.

__________________
The Prismer

"I am not a number, I am a person!"

Posted by eric2002 on 11-07-2002 11:26 PM:

...and let's not forget their other crime of abandoning the springboard slot... and the entire line of Visor's!!

Posted by JohnKes on 11-08-2002 12:25 AM:

By "somewhat standard" I was referring to, for example, generic rectangular Li-Ion batteries like a ROSE-LIP-1S1P from www.rose-elec.com Buy it off the shelf and design the PDA around it. Why spend time and money designing a weird-shaped battery, too?

Nokia batteries are rectangular, so are Palm m5xx, and probably Sony and HP.

Posted by phxflyboy on 11-08-2002 01:18 AM:

My Prism is only a month old so the battery problem is not an issue, yet. But I was curious if anybody had gone to a battery store to have them make one? Here in Phoenix, AZ we have a store called Batteries Unlimited where they make their own batteries for just about anything you can think of. If I get by there, I'll ask them about the Prism battery.

phxflyboy

Posted by phxflyboy on 11-08-2002 01:21 AM:

Small error on my post listed above. The name of the store is Batteries Plus. Their website is www.batteriesplus.com. I look around but don't see anything about PDA's. I will probably have to call or go in.

phxflyboy

Posted by Stardust on 11-08-2002 05:02 AM:

I think three things are obvious:

1. The li-ion for the Prism isn't easily available (only three or four potential sources, including PDA Concept in Singapore, have been mentioned and no one seems to have actually experienced having his li-ion replaced). That's a tiny number considering the number of Prism units still in use worldwide.

2. Where in fact it is available, it is doubtful if you can perform the battery replacement yourself without risking an electric shock. That means spending for freight and handling charges, so the overall cost is likely to be much more than US$50.

3. Standardization is a far-off reality in the PDA world in contrast to the world of PCs and laptops.

Perhaps it's time that Palm OS-based PDA users mounted a lobby to make PDA manufacturers institute some changes.

Posted by Prismer2 on 11-08-2002 03:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Stardust
I think three things are obvious:

2. Where in fact it is available, it is doubtful if you can perform the battery replacement yourself without risking an electric shock. That means spending for freight and handling charges, so the overall cost is likely to be much more than US$50.

Not true! It is in fact a very simple procedure. If you have the exact replacement battery, it has a plug and connector, just like many cordless telephones you use at home.

Opening the case is not a problem either. You remove 6 tiny screws in the back and gently pry apart the two halves, being careful not to snap off any plastic tabs where the font and back hinge together.

Then simply unplug the old battery, noting the position. Next, put the new battery in the same position and plugged in the same connector. Then gently close the back and replace the six screws.

Just be careful not to overtighten the screws. You will either strip the plastic thread in the front casing or pull the back down too hard where it might distort, possibly causing internal problems.

I think that is what happened to me when I took my case apart to look at the battery. I started having Fatal Errors until I traced the problem to one screw. I have not had any problems since I left that screw out!

__________________
The Prismer

"I am not a number, I am a person!"

Posted by Prismer2 on 11-08-2002 04:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Stardust

... it is doubtful if you can perform the battery replacement yourself without risking an electric shock.

I forgot to add there are NO high voltages in the Prism, so you cannot receive an electrical shock!

__________________
The Prismer

"I am not a number, I am a person!"

Posted by Prismer2 on 11-08-2002 04:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JohnKes
By "somewhat standard" I was referring to, for example, generic rectangular Li-Ion batteries like a ROSE-LIP-1S1P from www.rose-elec.com Buy it off the shelf and design the PDA around it. Why spend time and money designing a weird-shaped battery, too?

Nokia batteries are rectangular, so are Palm m5xx, and probably Sony and HP.

Hmmm....not quite. What makes you think that the ROSE batteries are generic, just because they are "on the shelf"? Can you find the same battery at many other battery manufacturers? That would make it generic, just like AAA, AA, C, D cells, 9V "transistor radio" batteries, Lithium photo, hearing aid, and watch batteries, etc. Or there could be a "de facto" standard because so many units were sold that aftermarket (non-OEM) suppliers jumped in to supply compatible batteries, like in the previous generation of Motorola cell phones, or Sony camcorder batteries.

From what I saw of their website, ROSE is a custom manufacturer. The ROSE batteries are "on the shelf" likely because ROSE manufactured too many for a past or current custom contract!

And just because a battery is rectangular does not mean it is anything like standard.

Finally, to say "Buy it off the shelf and design the PDA around it" is ludicrous. That is like telling Ford to buy a generic gasoline tank (hey, they are mostly rectangular!) like you can buy at Wal-Mart, then design their vehicles around that, instead of the other way around! Have you looked at the weird and non-standard shapes of today automobile gas tanks? It is amazing what you can do with plastic molding! <grin> No, you design the components to fit the overall product design, unless it is impossible or you will pay a substantial cost penalty (as an OEM) to buy a custom part to your specification. This is usually so your design can be optimized for appearance, weight, and form factor.

Just because someone wants to charge you $50 for a battery, don't think that Handspring paid anywhere near that! Their cost was likely to be around $1.00 or less! Someone once priced out a car by adding up the replacement costs of all the components and the $10,000 car became a $500,000 car. That did not even include the labor to put it all together!

The trick is to convince an aftermarket supplier that there is and will be enough potential sales to justify their tooling up to make replacement batteries. Alternatively, the original OEM supplier might get into the aftermarket as well.

__________________
The Prismer

"I am not a number, I am a person!"

Posted by JohnKes on 11-08-2002 05:01 PM:

High Voltage

Prismer2,
The backlight circuit generates 800Vpp. It would not feel good to get zapped, but it would not be fatal. Perhaps it dissipated after you unplugged the battery. Apparently, you did not get zapped.

How do you know that Rose manufactured too many? Maybe they had the tooling and a regular customer, and wouldn't mind making a few extra? And a rectangular design is certainly not unique - it is used in many PDA and phone designs. Handspring ended up changing the Visor shell anyway (from the Deluxe/Platinum shell). Required a new cradle, etc. Why not make it easy for everyone?

Posted by strangetanks on 11-09-2002 01:38 AM:

replacing batteries, getting shocked, ect...

I've been following this post for quite a while, knowing that I'll eventually want to replace my battery as well. First of all the only component that could shock you in your visor is potentially any capacitors which have been charged up to high voltages, there may be some of these in there to run the backlight or something but manufacturers always include a resistor in these circuits to "drain" and voltage which has accumulated in the caps so electrocution is a very minimal concern here.

I know that Lithium batteries are very expensive, but the reason that lithium-ion batteries are used is because they are lighter and can be charged more times than most other rechargable batteries. I would think an econimcal solution would be to use NiMH (nickel metal hydride) batteries. You can pick up a 3.6V battery pack for something like $13.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.a...5Fid=960%2D1835

My 2 cents
StrangeTanks

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