VisorCentral.com - Unlicensed programs/warez/cracks - have you ever used them on your PDA?

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-- Unlicensed programs/warez/cracks - have you ever used them on your PDA? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=40603)

Posted by purpleZ on 11-03-2003 07:12 AM:

Unlicensed programs/warez/cracks - have you ever used them on your PDA?

Yes - use now

Yes - used in the past

Never

Posted by TheHandlessKing on 11-03-2003 09:07 AM:

#1- None of your business

#2- You're a butt

#3- I realize this is the kind of reaction you want, and sadly I am playing right into your hands

TheHandlessKing

Posted by rastoma on 11-03-2003 09:46 AM:

and the point is what? why does it matter to YOU?

get a life.

Posted by Chaser81 on 11-03-2003 10:29 AM:

I agree

What's it got to do with you whether I have or not? Bit nosy if you ask me....

__________________
"Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil... cause I have a big stick! And I am the meanest mutherf***er in the valley!" -Deep Blue Sea

Posted by Jumbawamba on 11-03-2003 11:05 AM:

I think it is a good poll, it might even help would-be Treo-600 app developers to see whether they are likely to make any money out of their endeavours.

Posted by purpleZ on 11-03-2003 01:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by TheHandlessKing
#1- None of your business

#2- You're a butt

#3- I realize this is the kind of reaction you want, and sadly I am playing right into your hands

TheHandlessKing

I personally am not interested whether or not you as an individual use pirated applications. It's what the group does is much more important. One person's decision to use a "borrowed" app may not have much impact on developers, but what if half of the group is using "borrowed" apps?

Do you not feel that piracy is a common activity among PDA owners? An honest poll can let us know what we're really doing. I believe over 50% of PDA users have used a pirated application, many giving the excuse that programs are too expensive. If we talk about the issue openly, it's possible that a solution to the problem can be found that benefits everyone.

The other alternative is to sweep the piracy issue under the carpet like most people do and pretend it doesn't exist.

Posted by Chaser81 on 11-03-2003 02:02 PM:

He's right...

He's right of course, and I apologise for snapping earlier. I'm such a sheep, just following the crowd along... Baaa!

__________________
"Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil... cause I have a big stick! And I am the meanest mutherf***er in the valley!" -Deep Blue Sea

Posted by tjd414 on 11-03-2003 02:03 PM:

I took the poll ...

And chose #3, because that's me.

As to the piracy issue, I have a few comments.

First, if these corps REALLY wanted to make money, they would offer some choice. When it comes to email, I like SEVEN because it gives me access to my my PC's c:\ drive (ok, 1 folder, but it's big). The SEVEN system works w/o a glitch, BC (Sprint's version) I can't get to work. It seems they have to play with the software when it resides on its device. Give me a choice, and if yours is better I will pay.

Second, in my gut, I believe software should have more flexibility in licensing. Using it on just one device is plain dumb. It should be by owner, not by device. For example, if I wanted to build 2 pc's, one for me and one for my daughter, why should I have to buy 2 copies of the same OS? They are both in my house. Makes no sense to me. And leads to big, fat, greedy, suck up the really good ideas that compete w/us since we have the cash corporations.

Third, you can copy books and cds, movies off the dish and dvds -- what makes software so different? Richard Stallman of MIT fame & developer of GNU (to battle UNIX and perhaps the stepbrother of Linux) has been a proponent of free software since the early 80's. The whole concept behind Linux is that the code is free, you can add to it, but your addition has to be free (code) as well. You can still charge for your product ... but its free to those who want it via the code.

Finally, the price of software is getting out of control. It reminds me of three things. Pharmaceutical companies that charge exhorbitant prices for medicine, then when their patent runs out and they face competition, the price drops like a stone. College professors that write textbooks and require them for their class and their cook is almost always the most expensive. Toll roads all touting that the tolls would be gone once the roads were paid off. Well, some of them are 50+ years old and now its just a convenient way to tax people w/o them really knowing it.

Just my 2�.

Posted by Spiffyis5150 on 11-03-2003 02:13 PM:

Another thread that shouldn't be in the Treo 600 forum. I hope the moderator's come along and move this turd somewhere else.

Posted by csherman on 11-03-2003 02:15 PM:

I think it is a legitimate poll and a valid question. If you don't, why did you even click on the thread? The subject is pretty descriptive, you could have avoided it, rather than blast the threads creator. Sheesh, lighten up people!

__________________
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer."

Posted by Spiffyis5150 on 11-03-2003 02:19 PM:

No, I didn't I have to click on it, but I shouldn't have to see it in the Treo 600 HARDWARE forum either. It may be legit, but not in this forum.

Posted by tjd414 on 11-03-2003 02:33 PM:

In this case, spiffyisright, not spiffyis5150. This poll should be in the Software Forum.

Maybe one of the mods will 'pirate' it over there. (we should all be smiling right now ... )

Posted by csherman on 11-03-2003 02:51 PM:

Spiify, my comments at were not at all directed at you.

__________________
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer."

Posted by Gameboy70 on 11-03-2003 03:07 PM:

This topic has nothing to do with the Treo 600 per se, and should go in the OT forum. Mods, please move.

Posted by purpleZ on 11-03-2003 03:35 PM:

Re: I took the poll ...

quote:
Originally posted by tjd414
And chose #3, because that's me.

As to the piracy issue, I have a few comments.

First, if these corps REALLY wanted to make money, they would offer some choice. When it comes to email, I like SEVEN because it gives me access to my my PC's c:\ drive (ok, 1 folder, but it's big). The SEVEN system works w/o a glitch, BC (Sprint's version) I can't get to work. It seems they have to play with the software when it resides on its device. Give me a choice, and if yours is better I will pay.

Second, in my gut, I believe software should have more flexibility in licensing. Using it on just one device is plain dumb. It should be by owner, not by device. For example, if I wanted to build 2 pc's, one for me and one for my daughter, why should I have to buy 2 copies of the same OS? They are both in my house. Makes no sense to me. And leads to big, fat, greedy, suck up the really good ideas that compete w/us since we have the cash corporations.

Third, you can copy books and cds, movies off the dish and dvds -- what makes software so different? Richard Stallman of MIT fame & developer of GNU (to battle UNIX and perhaps the stepbrother of Linux) has been a proponent of free software since the early 80's. The whole concept behind Linux is that the code is free, you can add to it, but your addition has to be free (code) as well. You can still charge for your product ... but its free to those who want it via the code.

Finally, the price of software is getting out of control. It reminds me of three things. Pharmaceutical companies that charge exhorbitant prices for medicine, then when their patent runs out and they face competition, the price drops like a stone. College professors that write textbooks and require them for their class and their cook is almost always the most expensive. Toll roads all touting that the tolls would be gone once the roads were paid off. Well, some of them are 50+ years old and now its just a convenient way to tax people w/o them really knowing it.

Just my 2�.

1) I don't think it's realistic to expect software makers to invite competition.

2) Regarding multiple device licences: if piracy wasn't rampant, software companies would probably be more willing to do something like this at resonable cost. As things are now, those who pay are - to a degree - subsidizing those who don't.

3) How free are you to copy the things you mentioned? I'm not so sure you're right.
I don't understand the "free" software idea. If your job or company involves selling software, why would you make the effort to produce a good application when the schlockmeister down the street can the just come along and take your code, change it slightly and sell it as his/hers?

4) Pharmaceutical companies are also paying for research, drug trials, marketing, lawsuits, investors, etc. Clone drug companies don't have a lot of those hidden costs.
I have to agree with you about the college books and toll roads though!

Someone suggested this thread is off topic and should be moved. I hope the moderators leave it here, as this is where most of the posting occurs and a lot of the pirated apps seem to have been discussed. Maybe some good will come of this and the piracy issue will finally no longer be ignored.

Posted by tjd414 on 11-03-2003 04:43 PM:

Re: Re: I took the poll ...

quote:
Originally posted by purpleZ

1) I don't think it's realistic to expect software makers to invite competition.

2) Regarding multiple device licences: if piracy wasn't rampant, software companies would probably be more willing to do something like this at resonable cost. As things are now, those who pay are - to a degree - subsidizing those who don't.

3) How free are you to copy the things you mentioned? I'm not so sure you're right.
I don't understand the "free" software idea. If your job or company involves selling software, why would you make the effort to produce a good application when the schlockmeister down the street can the just come along and take your code, change it slightly and sell it as his/hers?

4) Pharmaceutical companies are also paying for research, drug trials, marketing, lawsuits, investors, etc. Clone drug companies don't have a lot of those hidden costs.
I have to agree with you about the college books and toll roads though!

Someone suggested this thread is off topic and should be moved. I hope the moderators leave it here, as this is where most of the posting occurs and a lot of the pirated apps seem to have been discussed. Maybe some good will come of this and the piracy issue will finally no longer be ignored.

You make valid points, but I beg to differ on a few of your comments (is America a great country or what!

)

1. Software companies not inviting competition is why we have so many problems. Take M$ for example. They wanted the browser market and they just beat down Netscape to get it. What the lack of competition leads to is one company dominating the market and getting to charge whatever it wants as far as price goes. AmiPro was heads and shoulders above Word, but it was crushed by Microsoft telling manufacturers that they had to put MS Office on their boxes ... this is not in the spirit of what is fair competition, IMHO. Now M$ wants to buy Google ... another great idea going to the biggest company to increase their domination.

2. Piracy will always be with us. Reasonable prices on software will encourage sales and discourage piracy. If more people could afford what they want, then alot of this would go away. Another example is ACT for Palm OS. It is a clone of Agendus ... looks the same (except for color) and works the same. Agendus is half the cost. Which one do you think will be pirated the most?

3. I can go to the library, check out a book, magazine, whatever ... stroll over to the copier and make copies ... that's how easy it could be. My DVD player records off the dish ... easy to do. The point of free software is that if you want to sell it, you can ... me, I'd buy it from you if it was good. I don't have the time and don't want to spend the effort to taking the code and building my own. As to people copying the code, changing it a little and selling it as their own ... hey, it'll happen. But the other side of the coin is service ... some companies have good service and others don't. Support is what keeps people coming back to the company and paying for upgrades.

4. Thanks for agreeing with me on toll roads and college professors!

It just ain't true with the pharm cos, though. You can't tell me that the cost of research/trials/lawsuits/marketing justifies the higher cost of the product over the timeframe of a 17 year patent. Besides, why should drug companies market to the public when a prescription has to be filled out by a doctor? Isn't this putting the cart before the horse? Their profits are huge, so in no way will I beleive that all the money goes back into R&D.

All that being said, piracy will continue and steps to combat will be developed and the companies in the end will have tons more people buying rather than pirating their software. Great thread though ...

__________________
Today's Oxymoron: 12oz Pound Cake

Posted by bmacfarland on 11-03-2003 04:53 PM:

Re: Re: I took the poll ...

quote:
Originally posted by purpleZ
2) Regarding multiple device licences: if piracy wasn't rampant, software companies would probably be more willing to do something like this at resonable cost. As things are now, those who pay are - to a degree - subsidizing those who don't.

I thought the subsidiziding is done by higher costs of software and not by more stringent licensing. That's what they always say at least. If that's not the case, they need to simply raise the price of software and change it's licensing to not be by device.

I'm going to address a specific point, which is not relevant to me. First for full disclosure I use Eudora for e-mail. It's decent and free and all I really need. Second, Handspring bills the Treo largely as an e-mail device (it's on the of three communications in the "Treo" name). They include an e-mail application in the emulator software that developers are developing around. So anyone thinking of writing new e-mail software gets discouraged that they won't make any money with a free built-in alternative -- see old Netscape/Opera vs. I.E. Then in the 11th hour we find we do not get a mail application and are asked to pay for one. I'm sorry, but that's either implicit bad advertisement in the worse case scenario or just bad business in the best case scenario. I'm not saying that they should provide great applications, but they should minimally provide applications that e-mail, browse web, make phone calls, standard Palm organizer, play mp3s, and take pictures. You might also say SMS or IM should be basic software included. These seem to be features of the Treo communicator. Handspring has come through with pretty much all of the above (though mp3s requiring registration which is fine), except for e-mail for one network. I don't see why my contract signed with Sprint 9 months ago has any bearing on the software included with the device.

Posted by ardint on 11-03-2003 05:35 PM:

Regarding pharmaceutical companies, I have a close family member who works in the Regulatory Affairs department for a major company.

She has told me that on occasion she has a difficult time coming to terms with how much her company charges for drugs compared to how much it costs to produce it. Of course, their are R&D expenses, but that cannot justify the kind of markup she described to me.

Bottom line: when it comes to drug companies there is in fact a VERY large profit margin there. The suits however, try to make it seem smaller, by factoring in the cost of advertising. However, I don't know of anyone who has asked their doctor about a drug because they saw an ad. To me, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

Posted by treotim on 11-03-2003 05:45 PM:

Kudos to Handspring. This is the most active thread on Treocentral and it has nothing to do with the 600. If we're this bored and have nothing else to gripe about regarding the Treo 600, then Handspring has made a marked improvement over the Treo 300. I think it took about 4 or 5 months after the Treo 300 was launched for people to quit whining about its shortcomings and/or complexity and start posting whimsical threads. Hats off to you Handspring...um...PalmOne!

Posted by treotim on 11-03-2003 05:45 PM:

....

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