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-- What's your dream CF/SM module? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=15573)

What's your requirements for a perfect CF or SM module? What kind of functions would you like to see on your module? Let's list them and tell the manufacturers what WE want.

Here is my list:
1.REAL springborad module--with flash on card to store applications.
2.FileMover, Backup functions are required applications on module.
3.Document reader, picture viewer, movie viewer, and dictionary are optional. If it has these, great. If not, I can live with it.
4.VFS support is required so I don't need to bother these software developers hard to get the module supported by the softwares I need.
5.If it has AutoCF or PiDirect function, great. If not, I can live with it.

I wanted the (last-I-heard-it-was-cancelled) InnoGear SixPak, with a modem, cel phone port, voice recorder, two silent alerts (vibe & flashing light) and memory/storage.

I'd also like a voice recorder/MP3 player that uses *inexpensive* (say, ten bucks or less per unit) removeable media of at least 64MB apiece.

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I agree

quote:

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Originally posted by hxh167
What's your requirements for a perfect CF or SM module? What kind of functions would you like to see on your module? Let's list them and tell the manufacturers what WE want.

Here is my list:
1.REAL springborad module--with flash on card to store applications.
2.FileMover, Backup functions are required applications on module.
3.Document reader, picture viewer, movie viewer, and dictionary are optional. If it has these, great. If not, I can live with it.
4.VFS support is required so I don't need to bother these software developers hard to get the module supported by the softwares I need.
5.If it has AutoCF or PiDirect function, great. If not, I can live with it.

---

Readable and writable ram module that doesn't require any odd backkup or file moving software... just adds more base ram.

That is my dream module.

James

my dream module would be the:
GIRLGONEWILD module for those days your on the go

Re: I agree

quote:

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Originally posted by yardie


I agree with all the above. That would be my perfect Springboard CF solution too. VFS is a must.

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Dave/ Kopsis answered questions.

Here are some answers from Dave/Kopsis for questions about the differences between VFS(Virtual File System) and PiDirect:

> Now that all the details of PiDirect is on their web site. i would
> like to know the differences between the two without all the jargon.


It's really tough to explain all this in non-technical terms, but I'll
give it a shot.


> 1. How are they similar?


Both solutions give apps a way to read data from the memory
card. PiDirect "tricks" the OS into thinking that one of the
directories on the CF card is built-in read only memory. VFS doesn't
do any tricks, it just gives apps a standard way to access data on the
memory card.


> 2. How do they work?


PiDirect is transparent to the applications. Databases stored on the
card are accessed by the applications just as if they were stored in
RAM (except no writing is allowed). VFS requires that applications be
designed to work with an removable storage memory card. Since it is a
Palm standard, any app written to use VFS functions will work with
SD/MMC cards on a Palm m50x, MemorySticks on a Clie, and CF cards on a
TRGPro. When we have a VFS solution for FlashAdapter, those same apps
will work with it.


Of course the app launcher is really just a regular Palm OS
application, so PiDirect will let the launcher "see" and run apps that
are stored on the memory card. VFS requires that the launcher
"understand" the concept of memory cards, so a third party launcher
(such as Launcher III or SilverScreen) will be required to launch apps
from CF via VFS.


> 3. WHat are the differences in functionality?
>
> 4. What are the pros/cons or advantages/disadvantages of each?


PiDirect lets existing apps use the memory card without their
knowledge. VFS requires that apps be "designed" to use a memory
card. The former has the advantage of making a wider range of apps
"memory card compatible", but the downside is that the methods that
existing apps use to access databases are *very* inefficient for
accessing data that is stored in files. Applications specifically
designed to work with a memory card understand the pros and cons of
getting their data that way and can be designed to access the data in
much more efficient ways. Lastly, PiDirect doesn't allow apps to write
to the memory card. That's not a problem for reference databases and
read only documents, but there are many cases where a read/write
solution is better. For example, I *predict* you will see a version of
AvantGo within the next year that will be able to store web content on
a memory card using VFS.


> 5. Which is better for large files and why?


Both have the potential to work equally well. However, PiDirect will
only work well with large files that are broken into many small
database records. Many files are like this, but some (such as
Mapopolis maps) are pretty much just one big record so PiDirect
becomes nothing more than an automover in that case.


> 6. If I have 1 MB of space left on my Visor and have a 5 MB document
> I want to view, would I be able to do it with any of these solutions?


As I indicated above, in the case of PiDirect, it depends on the
database format. If we're talking Aportis Doc format, then yes, you
would be able to view the 5MB doc on a Visor with 1MB of RAM free. But
the FlashAdapter can do the same now with CSpotRun, and future VFS
enabled doc readers will give you the same capability.


Now one last thing to keep in mind is that an application like MSMount
uses VFS functions to provide capabilities very similar to
PiDirect. So with VFS you have the potential to get the best of both
worlds.


--
- Dave Kessler
President - Kopsis, Inc.
http://kopsisengineering.com

quote:

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Originally posted by hxh167
1.REAL springborad module--with flash on card to store applications.

---

quote:

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2.FileMover, Backup functions are required applications on module.

---

quote:

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3.Document reader, picture viewer, movie viewer, and dictionary are optional. If it has these, great. If not, I can live with it.

---

quote:

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4.VFS support is required so I don't need to bother these software developers hard to get the module supported by the softwares I need.

---

quote:

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5.If it has AutoCF or PiDirect function, great. If not, I can live with it.

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BTW,
I forgot to mention one MUST:
This module must support VDX. I am a Visor Deluxe user and I need this module to support my VDX.

quote:

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Originally posted by hxh167
BTW,
I forgot to mention one MUST:
This module must support VDX. I am a Visor Deluxe user and I need this module to support my VDX.

---

Re: Dave/ Kopsis answered questions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by hxh167
Here are some answers from Dave/Kopsis for questions about the differences between VFS(Virtual File System) and PiDirect:

> Now that all the details of PiDirect is on their web site. i would
> like to know the differences between the two without all the jargon.


It's really tough to explain all this in non-technical terms, but I'll
give it a shot.
...
Now one last thing to keep in mind is that an application like MSMount
uses VFS functions to provide capabilities very similar to
PiDirect. So with VFS you have the potential to get the best of both
worlds.


--
- Dave Kessler
President - Kopsis, Inc.
http://kopsisengineering.com

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Well companies do this all the time.

Memplug is a competitor, and if they sat back and let the other CF modules take the limelight, then no one would buy it when it does come out.


This happens in all industries... just look at the video game console market and automotive industry.

Seems to me that PiMover is first to come to the party, but only because they didn't spend the time to get dressed! They do have Noah Pro support now, but how many other developers will be willing to recode their app for this nonstandard API? I know I've been going after PI a bit much lately, but I'm boggled by their decision to implement something nonstandard, when the could have just as easily spent their time pursuing the standard VFS.

Could somebody please explain why PI did it this way. To get a module out first? Easier? Cheaper? Desire to form a new standard that they control?

It's entirely possible that I just don't understand the programming involved sufficiently. Could somebody explain?

...Otherwise, I'll take a CF module that gets dressed before the party.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Seems to me that PiMover is first to come to the party, but only because they didn't spend the time to get dressed! They do have Noah Pro support now, but how many other developers will be willing to recode their app for this nonstandard API?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Seems to me that PiMover is first to come to the party, but only because they didn't spend the time to get dressed! They do have Noah Pro support now, but how many other developers will be willing to recode their app for this nonstandard API? I know I've been going after PI a bit much lately, but I'm boggled by their decision to implement something nonstandard, when the could have just as easily spent their time pursuing the standard VFS.

Could somebody please explain why PI did it this way. To get a module out first? Easier? Cheaper? Desire to form a new standard that they control?

It's entirely possible that I just don't understand the programming involved sufficiently. Could somebody explain?

...Otherwise, I'll take a CF module that gets dressed before the party.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by hxh167

They are NOT the first to the party. On the contrary, Dave from Kopsis, Inc. is the first who start all these CF "thing". If you are one of the home-brew adapter maker, you know what I meant. Does MemPlug have a version of Noah Pro to support them? It's odd that I don't know where I can get it. Please tell me. As I know the only 3rd party software supporting them is CSpotRun except the softwares originally included on the module. Don't tell me about these PiDirect related softwares because I cannot find them and I cannot use them (I am a VDX user). I don't like their philosophy either. They should get one software as good as possible instead of rushing everything out. Even before the PiDirect project, they should ask Palm or Handspring what they might have for the future(I mean like VFS) and ask us users what we REALLY want to have intead of bearing their heads in the dark and doing things secretly. I think Dave is much smarter on this compared to these people in HongKong. Don't get me wrong, I like and appreciate these people's efforts to give us more choices. But I just think they are making mistakes rather than willing to correct it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dvIceT
I think PiDirect, at the very least, will be a very capable bridge technology to tide us over until VFS support becomes a real factor on the developer's side. I'm a little surprised/disappointed the Flashadapter folks haven't provided a similar bridge for their users in the meantime.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dietrichbohn

Right. Agreed. I'm thinking, however, that it will be a very short bridge!

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quote:

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Originally posted by dvIceT




I hear where you guys are coming from, but VFS support is tougher to develop than PiDirect according to Flashadapter inventor Dave Kessler. In addition, VFS would be of little use right now w/o MSMount, which isn't guaranteed to work with all VFS implementations. Applications will eventually need to be VFS-enabled, but that is slow in coming. Even TealMovie has a Memplug-enabled beta now, while VFS-enabled TealMovie is still being worked on.

Another fact to keep in mind is that VFS is officially a part of PalmOS 4.0, which probably wasn't fully documented at the time MemPlug hardware and software development began. I think PiDirect, at the very least, will be a very capable bridge technology to tide us over until VFS support becomes a real factor on the developer's side. I'm a little surprised/disappointed the Flashadapter folks haven't provided a similar bridge for their users in the meantime.

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If VFS is a PalmOS 4.0 technology, that means that no Visors will be able to run it?

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