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Posted by KRamsauer on 10-15-2002 10:15 PM:

Sniper

Does anyone else suspect a link between the anthrax letters of last year and the sniper attacks of today? They both have taken place at the same time in the calendar year, and in the same manner they terrorize people while killing very few. I have no reason to specifically link the two, but they both seem to be very similar, at least on the surface.

Posted by terrysalmi on 10-15-2002 10:27 PM:

[sarcasm]

Of course they're linked, it's one big government conspiracy!!!

MWAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha.....

[/sarcasm]

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Posted by visorprismman on 10-15-2002 11:00 PM:

Hope he stays where he is...

Hey,

I hope that he stays where he is...I would not like to see him in this part of town...

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Posted by Yorick on 10-16-2002 04:00 AM:

Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Does anyone else suspect a link between the anthrax letters of last year and the sniper attacks of today? They both have taken place at the same time in the calendar year, and in the same manner they terrorize people while killing very few. I have no reason to specifically link the two, but they both seem to be very similar, at least on the surface.

those anthrax letters weren't opened in any timely fashion. The one at the Weekly World News (or whataver tabloid it was), according to an interview with someone who worked in that building, apparently was received in July.
(Source: an article about the apparent demise of Cracked Magazine, which at that time worked out of the same building, in Comics Journal)

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Posted by ToolkiT on 10-16-2002 05:49 AM:

Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Does anyone else suspect a link between the anthrax letters of last year and the sniper attacks of today? They both have taken place at the same time in the calendar year, and in the same manner they terrorize people while killing very few. I have no reason to specifically link the two, but they both seem to be very similar, at least on the surface.

I seriously doubt it, the antrax attack seemed to be an organized thing involving multiple people, while the sniper probably is a loner...

The antrax attacks were linked to al quida (or however you spell it) while this snipe is probably just a attention starving loony...
I am amazed how long it takes to find this guy though... he/she must be a pretty smart loony, which makes things even scarier...

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Posted by KRamsauer on 10-16-2002 01:58 PM:

Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

I seriously doubt it, the antrax attack seemed to be an organized thing involving multiple people, while the sniper probably is a loner...

The antrax attacks were linked to al quida (or however you spell it) while this snipe is probably just a attention starving loony...
I am amazed how long it takes to find this guy though... he/she must be a pretty smart loony, which makes things even scarier...

They never actually did link it with Al Qaeda, actually. And the ratio of gas-station shootings to me is suspicious. I'm not sure the anthrax wasn't or this is, but you can look at it either way.

Posted by Toby on 10-16-2002 03:18 PM:

Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
I seriously doubt it, the antrax attack seemed to be an organized thing involving multiple people,

How so?

quote:
while the sniper probably is a loner...

There is no reliable evidence suggesting anything either way. It is quite possible that it is a loner or a duo (some profilers have suggested a duo considering the short times between the first batch).

quote:
The antrax attacks were linked to al quida (or however you spell it)

No, they were never linked to Al Qaeda. AAMOF, domestic loonies are the prime suspects (although Iraq was originally considered a potential source which is how the whole revival of Iraq as an evil empire started).

quote:
while this snipe is probably just a attention starving loony...
I am amazed how long it takes to find this guy though... he/she must be a pretty smart loony, which makes things even scarier...

Why are you amazed? America is a relatively big and relatively free space (and the majority of it is still pretty rural). The smartest thing the loony could do is stop. The only previous such loony to do so was Zodiac (and some theorize that the only reason Zodiac stopped is that he was likely caught for something else or met with his demise some other way), and is the only such known case which wasn't solved. There's a pattern waiting to be found, and it will be found, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Posted by ToolkiT on 10-16-2002 11:40 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
How so?[B]There is no reliable evidence suggesting anything either way. It is quite possible that it is a loner or a duo (some profilers have suggested a duo considering the short times between the first batch).[B]

What makes me think that is the fact any fool can buy a gun get some practice and become a lone sniper, while the antrax attacks took a lot more thought and preperation hinting towards an more organized attack.
But it could be either way indeed, hence all the 'probably's 'seems' etc.. nothing is for sure (except death and taxes... no not death in Texas

)

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
No, they were never linked to Al Qaeda. AAMOF, domestic loonies are the prime suspects (although Iraq was originally considered a potential source which is how the whole revival of Iraq as an evil empire started).[B]

The impression we got overhere was that they were pointing to Al Qaeda for those attacks... I should have known better since everything gets blamed on them lately it seems... maybe bush is trying to manipulate us this way to approve his Iraq cause :/

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Why are you amazed? America is a relatively big and relatively free space (and the majority of it is still pretty rural). The smartest thing the loony could do is stop. The only previous such loony to do so was Zodiac (and some theorize that the only reason Zodiac stopped is that he was likely caught for something else or met with his demise some other way), and is the only such known case which wasn't solved. There's a pattern waiting to be found, and it will be found, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Maybe hollywood brainwashed me too much

The US seems to want to give the impression their CIA/FBI/police etc are so smart they can find anybody..
I just figured they would put in a HUGE effort in finding a madman like that...

We had a couple of loonies like that over here and is just as big and even more remote here, but in most cases they do find the killer..

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Posted by KRamsauer on 10-16-2002 11:50 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

The impression we got overhere was that they were pointing to Al Qaeda for those attacks... I should have known better since everything gets blamed on them lately it seems... maybe bush is trying to manipulate us this way to approve his Iraq cause :/

Actually, I think the gov't went out of the way to point out the most likely candidate was an ex US gov't person, a la McVeigh. Something happened to the information en route to your country.

Posted by ToolkiT on 10-16-2002 11:54 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Actually, I think the gov't went out of the way to point out the most likely candidate was an ex US gov't person, a la McVeigh. Something happened to the information en route to your country.

I guess it was more the (intenational) media than the US gov to blame for that one...
The australian media has a tendency to blame a lot on Al Qaeda anyway...

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Posted by Toby on 10-17-2002 03:05 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
What makes me think that is the fact any fool can buy a gun get some practice and become a lone sniper,

The type of gun used isn't exactly common and ever since the elder Bush signed the first batch of Brady laws, isn't available to any fool. You pay too much attention to the anti-gun lobby and the anti-gun media methinks.

quote:
while the antrax attacks took a lot more thought and preperation hinting towards an more organized attack.

huh? What thought and preparation do you think was involved that couldn't have been conducted by a single person who had access?

quote:
But it could be either way indeed, hence all the 'probably's 'seems' etc.. nothing is for sure (except death and taxes... no not death in Texas )

What I'm saying is that your 'probably' and 'seems' don't seem to relate at all to the coverage and expertise here where they're trying to catch both guilty parties (and where they have the actual evidence).

quote:
The impression we got overhere was that they were pointing to Al Qaeda for those attacks... I should have known better since everything gets blamed on them lately it seems... maybe bush is trying to manipulate us this way to approve his Iraq cause :/

Now you're really being silly. Bush was one of the first ones to get on TV and say that Al Qaeda wasn't suspected in the Anthrax mailings. I think the international media and your own desire to see Bush negatively are manipulating you that way.

quote:
Maybe hollywood brainwashed me too much The US seems to want to give the impression their CIA/FBI/police etc are so smart they can find anybody..

I don't think Hollywood can take full blame there. When one is willing to buy into a fairy tale, somebody's going to tell you one. The FBI and the police will find almost anybody _eventually_. Investigations don't happen instantly, though. The CIA hasn't been even a shadow of itself since the 70s (which in many ways is a good thing, IMO, although there are some negative consequences, i.e. slow intelligence where it matters like 9/11).

quote:
I just figured they would put in a HUGE effort in finding a madman like that...

They are, and unless he stops, they will probably find him relatively soon (weeks or months more likely than days, though).

quote:
We had a couple of loonies like that over here and is just as big and even more remote here, but in most cases they do find the killer..

I had the impression that the habitable and populated areas were more concentrated in Oz, though (even though the land mass is large).

Posted by Xenoepist on 10-17-2002 04:47 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
B]I don't think Hollywood can take full blame there. When one is willing to buy into a fairy tale, somebody's going to tell you one. The FBI and the police will find almost anybody _eventually_. Investigations don't happen instantly, though. The CIA hasn't been even a shadow of itself since the 70s (which in many ways is a good thing, IMO, although there are some negative consequences, i.e. slow intelligence where it matters like 9/11[/B]

Sorry slightly deviating from the sniper subject and broaching the "Difficulty in Finding Fugitives" issue referred herein. Its common knowledge that Mr. Bin Laden is hiding in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. All that our agencies have to do is ASK the right people. And please don�t ask anybody in Pakistan (ISI) if you want the right answers. Ask (RAW)!

The question is Do we really want to find him before we are done with our agenda?

Posted by KRamsauer on 10-17-2002 05:14 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by Xenoepist
Its common knowledge that Mr. Bin Laden is hiding in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.

How do we know this? Apparently it isn't common enough knowledge.

Posted by Toby on 10-17-2002 05:24 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
How do we know this? Apparently it isn't common enough knowledge.

Statistically, it's the most likely place. (sorry couldn't resist)

Posted by sowens on 10-17-2002 05:32 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

I probably should have spun a new thread for this, but....

quote:
Originally posted by Xenoepist
Sorry slightly deviating from the sniper subject and broaching the "Difficulty in Finding Fugitives" issue referred herein. Its common knowledge that Mr. Bin Laden is hiding in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. All that our agencies have to do is ASK the right people. And please don�t ask anybody in Pakistan (ISI) if you want the right answers. Ask (RAW)!

That presumes that the "right people" are going to tell us the "right things". I would think that most of the people that really know where Bin Laden is either support him (in which case they're not going to tell us the truth), or are afraid of the consequences for telling us the truth (and thus wouldn't tell us anything).

quote:

The question is Do we really want to find him before we are done with our agenda?

I don't think it matters. If we get Bin Laden, somebody else will simply take his place and we'll pursue that leader. Although I'm afraid support for the "war on terror" (I hate that term), would deminish if we got Bin Laden simply because he's been branded by the press as the terrorist, I would hope people wouldn't be that naive (but then again, I'm not that naive.

)

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Posted by Xenoepist on 10-17-2002 07:01 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by sowens
That presumes that the "right people" are going to tell us the "right things". I would think that most of the people that really know where Bin Laden is either support him (in which case they're not going to tell us the truth), or are afraid of the consequences for telling us the truth (and thus wouldn't tell us anything).

I would say we are not the only one intrested in seeing laden done for. I am sure there are others who have a vested intrest in finding laden. But the crux of the issue is do we want to upset pakistan now or may be latter.

Posted by KRamsauer on 10-17-2002 07:34 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Statistically, it's the most likely place. (sorry couldn't resist)

That's okay. I guess it is the most likely place when I think about it. Although (mixing religion, opinion and such) I'd say hell is a much more likely place. I think there is a really big chance that he indeed has passed on. From what I saw of the bombing in Tora Bora (sp?) it was fairly ruthless.

Posted by ToolkiT on 10-18-2002 02:35 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
The type of gun used isn't exactly common and ever since the elder Bush signed the first batch of Brady laws, isn't available to any fool.

I'm not a gun expert nor a gun lawexpert so I'll have to trust you on your word on that one..

quote:
Originally posted by Toby huh? What thought and preparation do you think was involved that couldn't have been conducted by a single person who had access?

Just a gutt instinct.. is possible by 1 person just seems more logical if there are more people involved.. no evidence on it though...

quote:
Originally posted by Toby What I'm saying is that your 'probably' and 'seems' don't seem to relate at all to the coverage and expertise here where they're trying to catch both guilty parties (and where they have the actual evidence).

I'm just giving my impression on the whole thing.. nobody knows all details, everybody forms an impression on what info they got..

quote:
Originally posted by Toby Now you're really being silly. Bush was one of the first ones to get on TV and say that Al Qaeda wasn't suspected in the Anthrax mailings. I think the international media and your own desire to see Bush negatively are manipulating you that way.

I have not seen that speech, you could be right that the media filtered it, however the aussie gov is pretty much kissing bush's behind, so I assume the media would be more biased that way too, but you never know..

quote:
Originally posted by Toby I don't think Hollywood can take full blame there. When one is willing to buy into a fairy tale, somebody's going to tell you one. The FBI and the police will find almost anybody _eventually_. Investigations don't happen instantly, though.

I do realize things like this take time, but how much time do the people in washington have??
In the movies they solve it within 2 hours, whats stopping them now?

quote:
Originally posted by Toby They are, and unless he stops, they will probably find him relatively soon (weeks or months more likely than days, though).

Lets hope so...

quote:
Originally posted by Toby [B]I had the impression that the habitable and populated areas were more concentrated in Oz, though (even though the land mass is large).

I doubt that havent seen much of the US but the sections I have seen were pretty much the same maybe even more crowded in the US...

Australia has 19Million people.. on the same landmass as the US (roughly)
80% of the people live on 20% of the land...
How many people does the US have? lets do the math...

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Posted by Toby on 10-18-2002 03:42 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
Just a gutt instinct.. is possible by 1 person just seems more logical if there are more people involved.. no evidence on it though...

The catch is that the more people who are involved, the less likely it is to stay secret. I don't think either case involves more than two people and quite possibly involves only one for that reason. The anthrax letters also seemed to Unabomber-like to be a team. That's my gut impression.

quote:
I have not seen that speech, you could be right that the media filtered it, however the aussie gov is pretty much kissing bush's behind, so I assume the media would be more biased that way too, but you never know..

The media in this country is rarely aligned with the government.

quote:
I do realize things like this take time, but how much time do the people in washington have??
In the movies they solve it within 2 hours, whats stopping them now?

Maybe they didn't read the script very thoroughly?

quote:
I doubt that havent seen much of the US but the sections I have seen were pretty much the same maybe even more crowded in the US...

Australia has 19Million people.. on the same landmass as the US (roughly)
80% of the people live on 20% of the land...
How many people does the US have? lets do the math...

When I said concentrated, I didn't mean more people packed in, I meant closer together than New York and LA (for example).

Posted by John Nowak on 10-18-2002 04:56 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sniper

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Now you're really being silly. Bush was one of the first ones to get on TV and say that Al Qaeda wasn't suspected in the Anthrax mailings. I think the international media and your own desire to see Bush negatively are manipulating you that way.

C'mon, Toby -- if there weren't a United States to complain about, Toolkit would have nop opinions at all.

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