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-- Moving from Prism to a m505 (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=14044)
Posted by Rob on 04-20-2001 06:24 PM:
Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by jonecool
Another thing, the m505 won't have a phone module for quite sometime that is SD compatible. If it does, where's the mic going to come from? On the prism, it's built in. On the m505, I haven't heard that there is one. In that case, the only way Palm would be able to pull it off is to make an external module much larger than the Handspring VisorPhone. Plus, with as small as the port is, I don't know if I would want a large batter pack hanging off such a small connector. It would most likely easily damage the unit.
I'm pretty sure that there will never be a phone module for the SD slot. Why? Because current state-of-the-art technology can only squeeze a phone's innards into the size of a VisorPhone, Nokia 8290, or Motorola V-series -- all of which are way too big and bulky to fit at the end of an SD 'tongue depressor'. By the time that you can fit a phone into an SD form factor, Palm and/or licensees will just build that functionality into the device itself. If someone does come out with a phone for the m50x series (which I think is very possible), it will be a sled-style device, so you can just put the mic at the bottom of the sled and/or use a headset attachment. I believe there is already such a device for PalmVs (maybe only with the headset, I'm not positive).
Posted by bradhaak on 05-09-2001 12:11 AM:
Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by Rob
I'm pretty sure that there will never be a phone module for the SD slot.
Gee, no chance for a phone slot sounds like a big selling point for my uses. The VisorPhone is such a ridiculous concept. I mean, why would anybody buy a phone that only worked if it was plugged into a PDA. What if I want to take some pictures with my EyeModule 2 or listen to some MP3s or do a backup. Gee, I need to use some software with a big database that only fits on a memory module. I sure hope nobody calls my phone while I am doing other things. And you can have all of these features for just slightly more than the PDA cost in the first place. 
Posted by dalamar70 on 05-09-2001 05:16 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
I guess the VisorPhone is aimed at business guys who have incredible numbers of contacts in their Visors and probably wouldn't be using eyemodules or CF adapters anyway. It is also more convenient to carry around, but other than that I don't see much synergy between a phone and a PDA.
Not only does it cost more than the Visor (hey, weren't you arguing that the cost of the platform has nothing to do with software prices? 
), it costs more than like 2/3 of the regular cell phones out there. I don't know what kind of service plans they have though.
Posted by Toby on 05-09-2001 05:23 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
Gee, no chance for a phone slot sounds like a big selling point for my uses. The VisorPhone is such a ridiculous concept. I mean, why would anybody buy a phone that only worked if it was plugged into a PDA. What if I want to take some pictures with my EyeModule 2 or listen to some MP3s or do a backup. Gee, I need to use some software with a big database that only fits on a memory module. I sure hope nobody calls my phone while I am doing other things. And you can have all of these features for just slightly more than the PDA cost in the first place.
Some might have the same 'ridiculous concept' opinion of your Eyemodule 2 or MP3 player that you have of the VisorPhone. I see much more synergy from a VisorPhone than either of those since my Visor is where my contacts are. Ultimately, I suppose a bluetooth module and phone would be more to my liking, but if I want to take a picture or listen to MP3s, I have no desire to do it on my visor. My existing digital camera has much better resolution and options. As far as MP3s go, I've really no use for them.
Posted by bradhaak on 05-09-2001 05:48 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Some might have the same 'ridiculous concept' opinion of your Eyemodule 2 or MP3 player that you have of the VisorPhone. I see much more synergy from a VisorPhone than either of those since my Visor is where my contacts are. Ultimately, I suppose a bluetooth module and phone would be more to my liking, but if I want to take a picture or listen to MP3s, I have no desire to do it on my visor. My existing digital camera has much better resolution and options. As far as MP3s go, I've really no use for them.
Actually, the only module that I own for my four Visors is single backup module. The point that I was making is that for most people, a cel phone is a two way device that is used to receive calls as well as send them. If you have any other modules that you use on a regular basis, the receive capability of the phone disappears.
I do think that the idea of a decent digital camera or to a lesser degree an MP3 player makes much more sense for exactly this reason. You aren't losing a large part of these devices functionality when using other modules (unless you like to listen to music while you take pictures ).
Posted by bradhaak on 05-09-2001 05:56 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by dalamar70
Not only does it cost more than the Visor (hey, weren't you arguing that the cost of the platform has nothing to do with software prices? ), it costs more than like 2/3 of the regular cell phones out there. I don't know what kind of service plans they have though.
Yes, I was saying that software prices should have nothing to do with platform. This is the same case. I was saying that software should be priced based on functionality. So should cel phones 
.
I paid $99 with activation for my Nokia 8290. It is an incredibly small, full featured GSM (same as VisorPhone) phone. It can be used even if I don't have an organizer with me. It can be used as an IR wireless modem at the same speed as the VisorPhone. I can beam contacts back and forth from My PDA. I can even use it and receive calls when my PDA is in use for something else.
Based on a functionality level the VisorPhone should cost less than the Nokia not three times as much.
Posted by Toby on 05-09-2001 06:00 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
[...] The point that I was making is that for most people, a cel phone is a two way device that is used to receive calls as well as send them. If you have any other modules that you use on a regular basis, the receive capability of the phone disappears.
This seems to me to be a much more rational argument than 'X is a ridiculous concept!' Had you stated it as such, it would have been much better received. The whole catch though is whether one has "other modules that [they] use on a regular basis". If one doesn't, then how is the VisorPhone a 'ridiculous concept'?
quote:
I do think that the idea of a decent digital camera or to a lesser degree an MP3 player makes much more sense for exactly this reason.
Only when considered upon the basis of your hypothesized usage. For me, a VisorPhone would be light years more sensible (if service were available in my area).
quote:
You aren't losing a large part of these devices functionality when using other modules (unless you like to listen to music while you take pictures ).
Sure, and if you don't use any modules other than the VisorPhone and a backup module, then you will rarely lose the functionality of the VisorPhone.
Posted by Toby on 05-09-2001 06:15 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
I paid $99 with activation for my Nokia 8290.
This wouldn't have been the case six months ago in most locales (and still isn't the case in some).
quote:
Based on a functionality level the VisorPhone should cost less than the Nokia not three times as much.
Actually, it should cost roughly the same, IMO. Until a few months ago, it would have. In a few more months, it may again. General rule of thumb with cell phones is 6 months to 1 year with feature packed phones at really high prices to get the early adopters. Eventually, they drop down to more reasonable levels (~$100-$150). The VisorPhone appeared shortly before Christmas 2000, so by Christmas of this year, I'd expect to see price drops along those lines if they follow that market.
Posted by bradhaak on 05-09-2001 07:36 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by Toby
[QUOTE]
This seems to me to be a much more rational argument than 'X is a ridiculous concept!' Had you stated it as such, it would have been much better received. The whole catch though is whether one has "other modules that [they] use on a regular basis". If one doesn't, then how is the VisorPhone a 'ridiculous concept'?
Oh come on, I have read and enjoyed a lot of your posts and you know as well as I do that besides trying to give honest opinions and helping people where possible, sometimes you just have to pull on a dangling chain.
quote:
Only when considered upon the basis of your hypothesized usage. For me, a VisorPhone would be light years more sensible (if service were available in my area).
I still think that a phone that can only be used when plugged into my organizer is a total waste of time. I guess that's why you can buy both type of products.
Now as soon as HandSpring comes out with a stand alone, small, full featured phone that fully integrates with a Visor when it is plugged in, I will be opening my wallet. To me, the stand alone capability is at least as important as the integration capability.
Just curious where are you?
quote:
Sure, and if you don't use any modules other than the VisorPhone and a backup module, then you will rarely lose the functionality of the VisorPhone.
Can't argue with this one - unless you don't always carry a Visor. Yesterday I was using my Edge, but today I am using my M505. In either case I still have a cel phone that I can use to receive calls and connect to the Internet (Love the Mobile Internet Kit).
I hope GSM service comes to your area soon.
Posted by bradhaak on 05-09-2001 07:41 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by Toby
This wouldn't have been the case six months ago in most locales (and still isn't the case in some).
[B]
Actually, it should cost roughly the same, IMO. Until a few months ago, it would have. In a few more months, it may again. General rule of thumb with cell phones is 6 months to 1 year with feature packed phones at really high prices to get the early adopters. Eventually, they drop down to more reasonable levels (~$100-$150). The VisorPhone appeared shortly before Christmas 2000, so by Christmas of this year, I'd expect to see price drops along those lines if they follow that market.
I appreciate you opinion, but I still think that the VisorPhone has less functionality and so should cost less.
Ok, I realize that Nokia sells more 8290s in a week than HandSpring sells VisorPhones in year. This is the main reason for the cost difference. Niche products are always more expensive. I suspect that HandSpring will never hit the kind of production volume necessary to lower the current VisorPhone to a competitive price.
Posted by Toby on 05-09-2001 08:08 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
Oh come on, I have read and enjoyed a lot of your posts and you know as well as I do that besides trying to give honest opinions and helping people where possible, sometimes you just have to pull on a dangling chain.
Well, surely, but if it's not dangling in the first place...
quote:
I still think that a phone that can only be used when plugged into my organizer is a total waste of time. I guess that's why you can buy both type of products.
Sure. I definitely wouldn't say it's for everybody, but I'd definitely have a use for it (or any other reliable method of wireless access for that matter).
quote:
Now as soon as HandSpring comes out with a stand alone, small, full featured phone that fully integrates with a Visor when it is plugged in, I will be opening my wallet.
IIRC, Kensington was working on a sleeve similar to the SoundsGood's Energy Clip except with a small LCD and keypad for basic functionality when not in the Visor. This was mentioned at Fall Comdex last year, though, so I wouldn't expect to see them until probably around the same time this year (if at all).
quote:
To me, the stand alone capability is at least as important as the integration capability.
The data functionality along with the phone integration would make stand alone capability a nonissue for me.
quote:
Just curious where are you?
It's on the side of all of my posts. But if you mean more specifically, Gulf Coast, ~60 miles south-southwest of New Orleans.
quote:
Can't argue with this one - unless you don't always carry a Visor.
Except that I always carry a Visor. Actually, I carry my Visor more than my phone.
quote:
Yesterday I was using my Edge, but today I am using my M505. In either case I still have a cel phone that I can use to receive calls and connect to the Internet (Love the Mobile Internet Kit).
Actually, a cell phone that I could connect serially (or IR for that matter) would be just as useful as the VisorPhone probably. Biggest hurdle is that demand for wireless data doesn't make it economically feasible here yet (the switches support the capability, but turning up the software is beaucoup bucks).
quote:
I hope GSM service comes to your area soon.
Me too. I keep trying to convince the cellular guys to convert their switches. Those things aren't cheap, though.
Posted by Toby on 05-09-2001 08:21 PM:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory is your main reason for moving?
quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak
I appreciate you opinion, but I still think that the VisorPhone has less functionality and so should cost less.
*shrug* I see it as a matter for the market to decide. I'm a big believer in the Invisible Hand Theory.
quote:
Ok, I realize that Nokia sells more 8290s in a week than HandSpring sells VisorPhones in year. This is the main reason for the cost difference. Niche products are always more expensive. I suspect that HandSpring will never hit the kind of production volume necessary to lower the current VisorPhone to a competitive price.
I'm not too sure about that. The 8290s aren't really a high demand product either. The general consumers are going to get targetted with the 3XXXs or 51XXs. Those are the ones that are practically given away.
