VisorCentral.com - Virus Hell

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Posted by Keefer Lucas on 11-28-2001 10:16 PM:

Virus Hell

I am the reigning computer expert in my family, saddled with fixing whatever ails the various systems in both business and home use. I am, therefore, also to blame whenever something goes wrong.

Twice in recent months I have had a computer that more-or-less worked, yet found it to have multiple viruses, as discovered by McAfee. Once I have removed the virus I have ended up with a machine that is functionally worse than when I started (programs that would run with the virus won't run once it has been innoculated or something similar).

I know that a virus program can't repair damage that has already been done, but how can removing a virus screw things up further?

Posted by dampeoples on 11-28-2001 10:20 PM:

Re: Virus Hell

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas

I know that a virus program can't repair damage that has already been done, but how can removing a virus screw things up further?

Dunno, maybe that's part of the virus?

Posted by MarkEagle on 11-28-2001 10:36 PM:

Make sure you have the latest McAfee updates and re-scan your system (scan ALL files). It's possible that there's still traces of a virus lurking around. I can't remember the name, but a recent virus infected the RUNDLL22 file which is the core loader that Windows uses for just about everything. We were hit at my office and several of the machines needed to have this file manually replaced (with the System File Checker app) even after McAfee said the systems were clean.

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Posted by ToolkiT on 11-29-2001 02:16 AM:

Re: Virus Hell

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
I know that a virus program can't repair damage that has already been done, but how can removing a virus screw things up further?

It can happen if they 'quarentine' certain files you prog. needs like dll's....

Try reinstalling your software..

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Posted by dick-richardson on 11-29-2001 05:36 AM:

Happens all the time. There's much more to virus removal than just deleting the virus. You may have to edit the registry, run sfc, run msconfig and deselect programs that are starting up, replace other files that have been deleted, etc.

A good habit to get into: run scandisk from the dos prompt (press f8 on bootup) to re-affirm file sizes in windows after disinfection.

Just read the info for whatever virus you may have had at Mcafee's site. That'll tell you exactly what needs to be done.

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Posted by JHromadka on 11-29-2001 05:40 AM:

I'm just tired of all the Windows virii that have been around lately. I get so man sircam and now this new one emailed to me.

TGIUAM (Thank God I Use A Mac)

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Posted by Keefer Lucas on 11-29-2001 01:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JHromadka
I'm just tired of all the Windows virii that have been around lately. I get so many sircam and now this new one emailed to me.

TGIUAM (Thank God I Use A Mac)

I've had more virii in the past three months than in my preceeding fifteen years of computing. And having an updated virus scanning programming only seems to scratch the surface.

Posted by usonian2001 on 11-29-2001 04:12 PM:

Also, it should go without saying, but it bears repeating:

Tell your users (whether family on the home network, or workers at the office) NOT TO OPEN ATTACHMENTS FROM STRANGERS, or even unexpected attachments from acquaintences - especially not .exe files, .vbs files, etc...

If people could just learn this simple rule of thumb, it would go a long way towards controlling viruses that propogate via e-mail attachments.

And of course, one can always switch to something other than Outlook for reading e-mail. Netscape and Eudora have free e-mail clients available. Not that these are 100% invulnerable to exploitation, but most viruses exploit security holes in MS products since that's what most people have installed by default.

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Posted by creole on 11-29-2001 07:59 PM:

The newer virii even have random subject lines so it makes it more difficult. Turn off the auto-preview pane, tell outlook not to "run" any attachments.

Also you should IMMEDIATELY delete and file that has two extensions. A new virus comes in like so:

somename.mp3.scr
anothername.doc.pif

Delete those right away.

Posted by foo fighter on 11-29-2001 09:11 PM:

Most viruses target Outlook and Outlook Express, the very latest and greatest in Microsoft Swisscheeseware. The best thing you can do to protect yourself is to DUMP them and go with Netscape Mail or Eudora...as usonian2001 correctly pointed out. If Nestcape 6.2 weren't so crummy, I would use it as my primary browser. I actually prefer the elegant interface of NS Mail to OE.

Why anyone would ever want to use Outlook 2002 as their PIM/email client is beyond me. It is, by far, the worst application ever unleashed upon humanity. At times it's hard to distinguish it from an actual virus. I'm surprised Norton Anti-virus doesn't simply alert me that my PC has been infected with Microsoft outlook!

As a side note, I have received the BadTrans.b variant 3 times this week. Norton caught it each time, but as Keefer said, Viruses were never this big of an issue in the past. Just keeps getting worse.

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Posted by dick-richardson on 11-29-2001 10:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
Why anyone would ever want to use Outlook 2002 as their PIM/email client is beyond me. It is, by far, the worst application ever unleashed upon humanity. At times it's hard to distinguish it from an actual virus. I'm surprised Norton Anti-virus doesn't simply alert me that my PC has been infected with Microsoft outlook!

The answer to your humorous query is compatibility. And them damn Jones's.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by robert sibell on 11-30-2001 05:29 AM:

I never knew how common viruses were, besides network computers. And if i were ever to get a virus, our Virus software came with the computer 3 years ago, and we have never updated it.

I heard that programs like "Norton anti virus" can only see viruses that are made by begginers. True hackers and all make there virus unnoticible to the detection program.

Anyone see "Swordfish" about a virus with 1000 something encryption, that would be impossible to brake.

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Posted by dick-richardson on 11-30-2001 05:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by robert sibell
True hackers and all make there virus unnoticible to the detection program.

It is possible. I've often pondered creating a virus that did nothing but reproduce and send stats back to me so I can monitor progress. I doubt there would be a rush to patch systems like there was for nimda.

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Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by foo fighter on 11-30-2001 05:55 AM:

Viruses are bad enough, but the most aggravating malicious attack is hacking! In spite of having a firewall on my system, occasionally some jackass manages to hack into my system and f*ck around. Yesterday I was online, typing away, when suddenly the list of messages in Outlook Express began spontaneously scrolling up and down by itself. When I attempted to click the close button, I got no response...it just kept scrolling. And then my browser window began to join in the fun. The best response is to immediately disconnect the Dial-up.

It's a harmless attack, but a chilling dose of reality as to how vulnerable you really are...despite having a defensive perimeter around your PC.

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Posted by Keefer Lucas on 11-30-2001 01:09 PM:

Just Plain Gruesome

Rather than installing and updating my virus control software I've resorted to removing it altogether. Norton 2001 has bogged my father's machine down so much that it barely even runs; its instistance on auto-updating (I've switched off all known user switches that announce updates) is maddening for my dad (he will be in the middle of a program and the Norton auto-updater will pop-on, which infuriates him). I first installed the program because he had some inexplicable computing issues (programs that wouldn't run that had worked fine in the past) and frequent lockups. I found three different virii. Unfortunately his estimation is that the damage done by the virii didn't cause nearly the inconvenience of the anti-virus program.

I was so miffed with Norton that I switched to McAfee. The first time I installed it on my WIndows ME program it wiped out my ability to use the System Restore feature. Which was wonderful. McAfee's organizational response was "sorry about that. we are working on a resolution". Unfortunately I don't have HOURS to spend on hold waiting to talk to a tech who will suggest something creative like "try reinstalling your Windows software".

I later tried installing McAfee online on my XP machine at home and had the only lock-up ever expereienced in the new operating system. So I fly naked to the wind, and keep my critical files saved on a Zip disk, resigned to the inevitablility of completely wiping my hard drive three or four times a year. And live in fear of the virus that will leap out of my machine and into the drawer I keep my Zip disks in.

We spend alot of time bashing Microsoft, and rightfully so. I also think that Norton and McAfee are near useless as business entities as well.

Posted by foo fighter on 11-30-2001 02:22 PM:

Re: Just Plain Gruesome

quote:
Originally posted by Keefer Lucas
I was so miffed with Norton that I switched to McAfee....[snip] I also think that Norton and McAfee are near useless as business entities as well.

Norton Anti-Virus is generally considered the best inoculation software for Windows...but I've found a few holes in the trusty old ware. A month or two ago, I was shocked to learn that my PC was infected with a Trojan. NAV had run countless scans on my hard drive and given me a clean bill of health. Just for fun, I went to symantec's web site and loaded the online virus scan. BOOM! Symantec's web tool found 3 files in my C: directory that identified as trojans. Getting rid of them was easy enough, but even after I quarantined them and scanned them with NAV....it still failed to identify them. My advice to everyone...DON'T TRUST ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE!! You can still be infected.

Peter Norton looks older every year on every box of Norton software. I think he's not the only thing getting long in the tooth, his software could use some viagra as well!

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Posted by robert sibell on 11-30-2001 05:02 PM:

Re: Re: Just Plain Gruesome

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter

Peter Norton looks older every year on every box of Norton software. I think he's not the only thing getting long in the tooth, his software could use some viagra as well!

HaHa

Posted by na2rboy on 11-30-2001 05:29 PM:

Outlook 2k2

Foo Fighter:

quote:
Why anyone would ever want to use Outlook 2002 as their PIM/email client is beyond me. It is, by far, the worst application ever unleashed upon humanity.

Not sure what you are talking about here. I use Outlook 2002 and it works great. What functionality does it not have that you want? It also defaults to blocking all possibly malicious attachments (can only be changed with an add-on program or registry editing).

As far as TGIUAM, it figures that the PC would be more hacked/attacked as it is used by 95% of the computing world. If 95% used Macs, Macs would be the primary target of hacks/attacks/virii. Macs are not more stable, more safe, or in any way invulnerable to these types of attacks, they are just not attacked (or at least not very often).

Why would a person create a virus for the Mac when it could not spread to more than 5-10% max of the computer users in the world?

Posted by foo fighter on 11-30-2001 05:54 PM:

Re: Outlook 2k2

quote:
Originally posted by na2rboy
What functionality does it not have that you want?

The interface is a trainwreck, and it makes a lousy E-mail client. Look at the inbox for example, it's the only thing displayed. Your Sent and Outgoing items are buried away in a different tab. These controls should be more logically placed to better support the purpose they serve. Here is an example of how I think the inbox SHOULD look:

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Posted by na2rboy on 11-30-2001 06:30 PM:

outlook 2k2

Then why not just disable the outlook bar, and enable the folders list? Or have both? Then each folder (sent, outbox, etc.) is just a click away. It was made to work both ways.
What about the interface is a trainwreck?

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