VisorCentral.com - 2002: a Year of Transition

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
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-- 2002: a Year of Transition (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=30756)

Posted by treocentral on 12-24-2002 12:09 AM:

2002: a Year of Transition

James Hromadka reflects on the year that was

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/202-1.htm

Posted by tommygreen on 12-24-2002 05:26 AM:

Too much information

Is it just me, or is James' comments about his divorce just a little TMI?

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Thanks!

Posted by Insp_Gadget on 12-24-2002 05:26 PM:

Re: Too much information

quote:
Originally posted by tommygreen
Is it just me, or is James' comments about his divorce just a little TMI?

No, I think it's just you.

James' comments about his divorce may not be the news you came to the site for, but that doesn't mean that he should have kept it to himself. It was offered as an explanation for his not writing for a while.

The fact that he thought enough of his readers to let us know what is happening is a credit to his character. Attacking him for doing so says something about your character, which I'm not going to comment on.

__________________
--Inspector Gadget

"Go Go Gadget Treo!!"
Treo 600 CDMA

Palm V-->Palm IIIc-->Visor Prism-->Visor Phone-->Treo 270-->Treo 600

Posted by tommygreen on 12-24-2002 05:57 PM:

Re: Re: Too much information

quote:
Originally posted by Insp_Gadget

No, I think it's just you.

OK, let me use this forum to discuss my first marriage, the divorce that followed, my current wonderful marriage, job, and other personal responsibilities, and how it is affecting my ability to post here...

I'm sorry, I just think stuff like that should be discussed with close personal friends, not whoever happens to land on a website such as TC.

__________________
Please give to the American Diabetes Association or the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.

Thanks!

Posted by Insp_Gadget on 12-24-2002 06:45 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Too much information

quote:
Originally posted by tommygreen

OK, let me use this forum to discuss my first marriage, the divorce that followed, my current wonderful marriage, job, and other personal responsibilities, and how it is affecting my ability to post here...

I'm sorry, I just think stuff like that should be discussed with close personal friends, not whoever happens to land on a website such as TC.

Whatever you choose to discuss would be your right. I still think it was rather insensitive of you to criticize him for simply stating why he's been too busy to write articles, regardless of the reason he might have stated.

If he had stated that he had a death in the family, would you have jumped on him about that too?

TC is a public forum, you are right about that. But what's wrong with him giving a simple explanation as to why he hasn't been able to write for the past few months? I, for one, appreciate the explanation. I'm sure others do as well.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's cynical of you to find fault in something so benign.

That's all I have to say.

__________________
--Inspector Gadget

"Go Go Gadget Treo!!"
Treo 600 CDMA

Palm V-->Palm IIIc-->Visor Prism-->Visor Phone-->Treo 270-->Treo 600

Posted by tommygreen on 12-24-2002 07:26 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Too much information

quote:
Originally posted by Insp_Gadget

That's all I have to say.

You certainly have a lot to say; I must have ruffled your feathers quite a bit.

Never meant to do that, in spite of your sly attacks on my character.

You're right about one thing, we're all entitled to our opinions. I happen to think his situation was a little too personal to be posted here. Maybe I'm the only one. I think you and I can cool it at this point, as you are entitled to your opinion as much as I am mine. This is of course, why I posted my comment. Other's opinions are great, and I'm sure we'll get more opinions, but you and I don't need to argue.

Have a Merry Christmas, Insp_Gadget.

__________________
Please give to the American Diabetes Association or the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.

Thanks!

Posted by pbryon on 12-24-2002 07:37 PM:

I certainly don't want to get involved in this little discussion, but you could probably make an argument that pictures of one's kids or messages soliciting donations are also of a personal nature and not relevant to TreoCentral, just like comments about his divorce.

But I don't really have a problem with either.....

Posted by tommygreen on 12-24-2002 07:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pbryon
I certainly don't want to get involved in this little discussion, but you could probably make an argument that pictures of one's kids or messages soliciting donations are also of a personal nature and not relevant to TreoCentral, just like comments about his divorce.

But I don't really have a problem with either.....

Agreed. But I have to say I'm following the lead of many others on these forums. (I know, not an excuse!

) As for the pictures, maybe TC should remove the avatar feature???

As for the donations, at least they are to reputable, tax-deductible charities. I've seen someone here with a link to a personal page asking for personal donations so they could buy more gadgets and gizmos!

__________________
Please give to the American Diabetes Association or the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.

Thanks!

Posted by Rob on 12-24-2002 10:42 PM:

James: just wanted to say 'hang in there' and I hope things will start looking up for you in the new year. Although I haven't been around much recently, I think I speak for most of the VC/TC community when I say that I really appreciate all the work you have put into this site over the last three years. Merry Christmas!

Posted by yardie on 12-25-2002 09:42 PM:

I am very sorry to hear about your divorce. The more I hear and see the less I think I will ever get married.

__________________
My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?

Posted by yelofelo on 12-26-2002 04:12 AM:

pots & black kettles

It is incredible to me that one would be critical of somebody posting off-topic information in treo central while subjecting everyone here to to equally off-topic (no matter how well-intended) information

"If you do have diabetes, please participate in my poll here on TreoCentral: Calling all diabetics!!!"

I appreciate your mission, and concern for the welfare of others. Your obvious compassion for complete strangers could be utilized here in support of somebody who is obviously hurting.

Pots shouldn't call kettles black. Especially self-avowed humanitarians.

Posted by NateS on 12-28-2002 03:20 AM:

Re: pots & black kettles

quote:
Originally posted by yelofelo
It is incredible to me that one would be critical of somebody posting off-topic information in treo central while subjecting everyone here to to equally off-topic (no matter how well-intended) information

"If you do have diabetes, please participate in my poll here on TreoCentral: Calling all diabetics!!!"

I appreciate your mission, and concern for the welfare of others. Your obvious compassion for complete strangers could be utilized here in support of somebody who is obviously hurting.

Pots shouldn't call kettles black. Especially self-avowed humanitarians.

wow yelofelo,

Your post swept me back to the touching and fitting lyrics from "Easy to be Hard" in "Hair":

. . .
And especially people
Who care about strangers
Who care about evil
And social injustice
Do you only
Care about the bleeding crowd?
How about a needing friend?
I need a friend
. . .

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/hair/easytobehard.htm

In this age of the internet, James has a right to count us among his friends, if he chooses to do so. And I can relate to that.

Regards,

NateS

__________________
Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!

Posted by aarons12 on 12-28-2002 10:03 PM:

ok, someone brought this thread to my attention, so here's my two cents.

if one thought that there was TMI in this thread, he could have just read a different thread.

however, a comment about TMI is hardly a 'personal attack', just a misplaced observation.

will mountain and molehill please return to your respective corners of the ring. this is how wars start...

(and by the way, for anybody who doesn't like cute puppy pictures and pithy sayings in posts, a hearty raspberry! now if we could only get countries to settle their disputes that way.)

__________________
Change is a challenge to the adventurous, an opportunity to the alert, a threat to the insecure.

Posted by NateS on 12-29-2002 12:33 AM:

My view . . .

quote:
Originally posted by aarons12
ok, someone brought this thread to my attention, so here's my two cents.

if one thought that there was TMI in this thread, he could have just read a different thread.

however, a comment about TMI is hardly a 'personal attack', just a misplaced observation.

will mountain and molehill please return to your respective corners of the ring. this is how wars start...

(and by the way, for anybody who doesn't like cute puppy pictures and pithy sayings in posts, a hearty raspberry! now if we could only get countries to settle their disputes that way.)

With all due respect to my good friend aaron, I respectfully disagree, at least in part. I think spirited debate is how wars are prevented, not started.

I�m going to assume that this is a legitimate �off-topic� area. If not, we are all in trouble!

When James first included in his article a remark about going through a divorce, I too felt a bit uncomfortable about it, until I began to think about it in the context of my own area of work. For forty years, I have been dealing with men and women going through divorce and dealing with the aftermath of it. My observation is that while both men and women suffer great emotional pain during and after a divorce, they are treated entirely the opposite by their peers.

Women gain status during divorce; men lose it. This is because of the totally contradictory way the subject is treated by their respective same-gender peers.

While women go through great pain during and in the aftermath of divorce, their peers, both friends and total strangers, even in a totally business setting, receive news of the event as just another life�s passage or event - like an engagement, a wedding, a birth, a death. The divorcing woman is pampered by her female friends with sympathy, advice and even special recognition: �Ladies, I�d like you to meet Maude. She�s going through a divorce from her husband right now.� All this special attention helps the woman maintain a psychic compass and middle ear balance as she weathers the storm.

A man�s peers, on the other hand, seemingly go out of their way to avoid discussing the topic, and to make the man feel uncomfortable in even bringing the topic up, because they themselves feel uncomfortable dealing with their friend�s plight and pain. Aside from a few crude remarks about compensating for loss of sex, men both friends and strangers, generally refuse to acknowledge or deal with the plight and pain of the divorcing man they come in contact with. This deprives the man of the acceptance and support he should be receiving, just as his female counterpart does.

If the author of this article had been a woman, and had commented that going through a divorce had delayed recent column deadlines, no one would have thought negatively about it. In fact, she would have been likely to have received understanding and encouraging responses from female readers. But, because the author was a man mentioning his divorce, male readers are uncomfortable and even go so far to suggest it was �too much information.�

The person attaching this label probably meant no harm, in the sense that he was remaining consistent with typical male attitudes towards their fellow men, but overlooked the fact that the author wasn�t seeking sympathy, but just acknowledgment of the validity of his present life status, and acceptance of the effect it was having on his business performance.

It did seem particularly ironic, coming from someone who openly and aggressively promotes succor for his own legitimate area of interest in relieving suffering, since I would hope he would accept that psychic pain and suffering is as entitled to legitimacy as the physical kind, and no one has the right to make comparative measurements of pain and suffering. But I accept that he meant no harm, and was just expressing the almost universal yet unfortunate male attitude on this subject.

Regards,

NateS

__________________
Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!

Posted by aarons12 on 12-29-2002 12:59 AM:

Re: My view . . .

quote:
Originally posted by NateS

With all due respect to my good friend aaron, I respectfully disagree, at least in part. I think spirited debate is how wars are prevented, not started.

actually nate, you are agreeing with me, not disagreeing. i am somewhat experienced in the consensus management and team building area, and totally agree that spirited debate is the way to reach the best conclusions.

however those debates, if they are to bring about peace rather than war, must start with some basic principles, one of which is that we address issues, not personalities. that was the problem with the 'escalation' i saw in calling something a 'personal attack'. it took it out of the realm of debate and into the realm of name-calling. once you get to that, it is very difficult to back off and have everybody end up friends.

notice how after that the discussion went to avatars and tag lines! it became a 'cut-fight', hardly a 'spirited debate'.

if you can keep the personalities and the insults out of debates, you can still end up friends, and maybe, just maybe, convince someone to at least consider your point of view.

__________________
Change is a challenge to the adventurous, an opportunity to the alert, a threat to the insecure.

Posted by miradu on 12-29-2002 01:51 AM:

I'm going to move this topic to off-topic now. I want to comment that James has always since 1999 with visorcentral included snippets of his life whatever in his writing - we got to know him that way. He hasn't been around recently to much, so a lot of new users have joined who don't know him - but this was common and accpeted practice for him to do. Marcus has never done these kinds of things, and me - i tried and whatever i wrote just sounded stupid and just wasn't my style.

NateS - your comments are very intresting, are you like a marraige counselor?

__________________
-miradu

Posted by aarons12 on 12-29-2002 02:45 AM:

gee miradu, are you saying we got off the subject? i can't believe that!

__________________
Change is a challenge to the adventurous, an opportunity to the alert, a threat to the insecure.

Posted by NateS on 12-29-2002 05:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by miradu

<snip>
NateS - your comments are very intresting, are you like a marraige counselor?

Actually, I'm an attorney who has specialized in parental rights litigation between parents who are breaking up or previously broke up, either through divorce or if unmarried through post-parentage proceedings. You can't do this work for as long as I have without developing a lot of compassion for the hurting adults you come to know, and their hurting children, and seeing certain societal patterns, including the one I made reference to in my earlier post.

Regards,

NateS

__________________
Treo 600 - what a "Marvel"ous device!

Posted by KRamsauer on 12-30-2002 03:34 AM:

Opining

Well, I've not said a thing on this subject yet (I know: It's amazing!) but the streak ends here.

If the story had been a news story, said comments might have been out of line ("Handspring released a new version of TreoMail today and my cat died"). However, it was a personal piece with someone's interpretations and had as much to do with the person as any events. Therefore, I'd be inclined to let it slide.

Tossing more dirt onto the mole-hill.

--Kurt

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Posted by AbortRetryFail? on 12-30-2002 07:26 AM:

NateS' post

NateS:

Amazing post!

It reminds me of this wonderful book called Raising Cain - Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys. I heard one of the authors speak a few years ago on the subject of "emotional literacy" that tends to go by the wayside for the male gender when we were kids.

Boys (and arguably men) are generally steered away from their emotional lives by adults and peers - there is little individual or social encouragment to develop qualities such as comapassion, sensitivity, and warmth.

So, to James, I offer whatever comapassion, sensitivity, and warmth I can to you.

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