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Posted by miradu on 04-22-2001 10:47 PM:
HAPPY EARTHDAY!
What have you done to help mother earth today?
Come on.. It's worth an hour of your time.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Earth+Day
__________________
-miradu
Posted by yaz320 on 04-22-2001 10:51 PM:
I don't care about the earth. They should get a huge fan and blow all the dirty air somewhere else perhaps Canada.
Perhaps the earth will be fine until I die, then it won't be a problem.
i hate enviromentalists...i recycle my trash which is good enough.
__________________
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Posted by homer on 04-22-2001 11:23 PM:
George Bush's face should never show up on a thread about Earth Day.
__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne
Posted by BEN on 04-22-2001 11:49 PM:
Wow, somebody got up on teh wrong side of the bed today. I think that yaz needs to have some time in "Time Out" 
BEN
Posted by yaz320 on 04-23-2001 03:00 AM:
quote:
George Bush's face should never show up on a thread about Earth Day.
I like how he cut their stupid budget and is giving that money back to the hard working American taxpayers. They were getting TOO excentric and closing off the parks to the public...like that does any good to ANY of the American People.
quote:
Wow, somebody got up on teh wrong side of the bed today. I think that yaz needs to have some time in "Time Out"
You have no clue... Not a good day, but on any day I would stand by that position. If people are so worried about the earth they shouldn't PAY people to pick it up for them, they should go out with a trashbag and do it THEMSELVES, NOT talk about it and let SOMEONE ELSE do all the dirty work.__________________
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Posted by dick-richardson on 04-23-2001 03:26 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by yaz320
...You have no clue... Not a good day, but on any day I would stand by that position. If people are so worried about the earth they shouldn't PAY people to pick it up for them, they should go out with a trashbag and do it THEMSELVES, NOT talk about it and let SOMEONE ELSE do all the dirty work.
That's rather the spirit this thread was started in, don't you think?__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.
Posted by yaz320 on 04-23-2001 03:27 AM:
quote:
That's rather the spirit this thread was started in, don't you think?
Thats my point. If you want to clean up the earth, go do it yourself. Don't nag others to do your work.__________________
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Posted by dick-richardson on 04-23-2001 03:29 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by yaz320
Thats my point. If you want to clean up the earth, go do it yourself. Don't nag others to do your work.
Holy! You're quick on the post!__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.
Posted by miradu on 04-23-2001 04:09 AM:
wow.. I wasn't tryign to nag, just trying to get more people aware. My goal is to use a car or bus as little as possible, and bike 8 miles a day. (even on school days). It's helpful to the enviroement, if I transport myself on my bike, and it's helpful to me, because it allows me to be in better shape
I also picked up the trash in my yard and ally, so that the cute little bunnies and birds that live here, don't get hurt.
__________________
-miradu
Posted by yardie on 04-23-2001 04:30 AM:
Its time to think about the earth
Its VERY unfortunate that YAz feel the way he do. The planet is going into the topilet and no one cares... Why, because by the time thigns get really bad we will be dead anyways... But what about our children and children's children? Why the hell does North AMericans consume almost half of what the rest of the world consumes? After all, we only make up a small percentage of the world population.
People need to get their heads out of the sand and start realize what is going on around us... The Ozone layer is depleting, Ice Caps are melting and South Pacific countries are hoping that their lands will continue to be surrounded by water and not under water.
Posted by Ed Gain on 04-23-2001 07:56 AM:
Every day is Earth Day
I went to the Earth Day celebrations here in San Diego (and I have the sunburn to prove it). It was attended by 60,000+ people. Many of them here to find out what they can do about the rolling blackouts in California. And many of them showed up because they believe that they can make a difference.
To quote Margaret Mead: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed individuals can change the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has".
So Yaz, do you plan to be alive 15 years from now? If so, you should be concerned about the environment. It doesn't take a statistician to see what is happening in the world. The real question is... are we already too late to fix the problems?
Miradu2000, keep up the good work. Your efforts (and those of millions of others) are required if we plan on providing a home for our descendants.
Posted by homer on 04-23-2001 01:28 PM:
quote:
Why the hell does North AMericans consume almost half of what the rest of the world consumes?
I think 'half' is being conservative. I think I've heard that if the entire planet consumed at the rate of the US citizen, we'd need 4 planets to sustain everyone.__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne
Posted by Ed Gain on 04-23-2001 04:11 PM:
Curious George
quote:
Originally posted by homer
George Bush's face should never show up on a thread about Earth Day.
Would these photos be more appropriate?
Or read about the Toxic Texan in the news.
BTW: I agree with you homer. George W 's stand on environmental issues is appalling and his face should not appear in this thread.
Posted by linguas on 04-23-2001 04:49 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by yaz320
I don't care about the earth. They should get a huge fan and blow all the dirty air somewhere else perhaps Canada.
Perhaps the earth will be fine until I die, then it won't be a problem.
i hate enviromentalists...i recycle my trash which is good enough.
Given your sig, I shouldn't be surprised at your comments, but I have to ask what kind of self-centerd fool are you? (answer: first class! 
) Letting someone else worry about it, or just "trusting" people to do the right thing is what has gotten us into the mess we're in today - especially when the people to be trusted think like you! Wake up and look outside yourself!
"We do not inherit this land from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children."
Haida Indian saying__________________
Eschew obfuscation!
Posted by homer on 04-23-2001 05:50 PM:
Interesting thought:
� Gallons by which daily U.S. oil consumption would drop if SUVs� average fuel efficiency increased by 3 mpg : 49,000,000
� Gallons per day that the proposed drilling of Alaska�s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is projected to yield : 42,000,000
__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne
Posted by sdoersam on 04-23-2001 06:04 PM:
Re: Its time to think about the earth
quote:
Originally posted by yardie
People need to get their heads out of the sand and start realize what is going on around us... The Ozone layer is depleting, Ice Caps are melting and South Pacific countries are hoping that their lands will continue to be surrounded by water and not under water.
OK, against my better judgement, I'm going to get into this. My biggest problem with the above statement is this: How do we know that this is not normal? How do we know that this is not part of the Earth's normal evolution/life cycle? I have read a lot of the popular media's coverage of "Global Warming" (Let us not forget that less than 20 years ago, it was "Global Cooling" that was the big issue) and quite a bit of coverage that the popular media has ignored. There are some problems I have with the shrinking Ozone layer and "Global Warming" Mostly, that the science isn't all there yet.
On the Ozone layer, they really don't know why it is depleting. (They know what can deplete Ozone itself, but they don't know the actual cause of the shrinking Ozone layer.) I have seen theories on manmade causes to natural cycles, but no one really knows when you put it all together (again, everyone has their theories and they change frequently) The fact that chloroflorocarbons (sic?) have decreased in the atmosphere, yet it has not been reflected in the rate of loss in the Ozone.
As for Global Warming, I have seen gaping holes in the science on this one. The biggest hole I have seen is in the computers they use to predict what is happening. They aren't anywhere near powerful enough to predict anything accurately. As a matter of fact, if you enter in the conditions from 20 years ago, and ask the computers to predict todays climate, the predictions are wildly off. We don't have anything powerful enough to deal with all the variables to do accurate predictions. (Assuming we know all the variables)
Many news organizations like to point to EPA studies as proof of the problems. Unfortunately, a lot of the EPA studies (not all, but many to most)are skewed or heavily manipulated. I have seen numerous cases where the EPA makes a big deal out of statistically insignificant numbers, leaves out data that doesn't support their hypothesis, or stacks the study to get the results they want. A classic example of this is studies showing the "substance x" causes cancer in rats. Never mind that the rats are bred to be susceptible to cancer, and that they are fed excessive amounts of "substance x," far more than anyone would ever consume. Not a very good "real world" example if you ask me.
I've looked at some of the environmental stuff that GW has turned down or reversed lately. After looking at some of those studies, I don't think they were bad decisions. If you actually look at his actual decisions, he delayed the implementation of the rule(s), to see if the data supported them, and to do further investigation into it. He hasn't killed them out right, and has left the opportunity to implement them at a later date. People tend to forget that there is more than one dimension to environmental issues. People tend to forget the economic ones. I recently read of a study that showed the arsenic regulations would have cost more lives than it saved. Their argument boiled down to this: The increased cost of filtering the water would be passed down to the consumer (either through water bills or taxes) which could lead to the following: Leave "underprivileged" people with less income to spend on things like health care, or encouraging people to dig more wells, and drink completely unfiltered water (or filtered to lesser standards) Now, I don't put full stock in this study either, but it does make you think, and they may have a good point. Unfortunately, most people don't think about that aspect of implementing a regulation.
I personally don't believe that humans have as big of a long term impact on the Earth as we like to think. (Reminds me of the time in history when we thought that the Earth was the center of the Universe) Now, having said that, I try and do my part to be kind to the environment. I recycle, don't litter, and try to buy environmentally friendly products. I agree that Americans could be a little more conservative in their consumption of resources, and do it smarter, myself included, and I try to do my part. I just also believe in having good data, from more than one source, before making a decision.
Sorry for the long winded post.__________________
Sven
If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished.
Posted by homer on 04-23-2001 06:22 PM:
quote:
My biggest problem with the above statement is this: How do we know that this is not normal? How do we know that this is not part of the Earth's normal evolution/life cycle?
Sven:
You are right, we don't know. Unfortunately, we can't know until after the fact. What is frustrating is that a lot of people use that argument to NOT take care of the environment.
"We don't KNOW that vehicle emissions are causing global warming, so why should we reduce them?"
Well, that's just silly. Pollution is pollution. Whether or not if affects global warming really should have no bearing on whether or not we try and reduce emissions.
Sadly, Bush thinks that there is no reason to enact environmental standards unless 1) There is monetery benefit or 2) there are numbers to PROVE that pollution is bad.__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne
Posted by sdoersam on 04-23-2001 07:11 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by homer
Sven:
You are right, we don't know. Unfortunately, we can't know until after the fact. What is frustrating is that a lot of people use that argument to NOT take care of the environment.
"We don't KNOW that vehicle emissions are causing global warming, so why should we reduce them?"
Well, that's just silly. Pollution is pollution. Whether or not if affects global warming really should have no bearing on whether or not we try and reduce emissions.
Sadly, Bush thinks that there is no reason to enact environmental standards unless 1) There is monetary benefit or 2) there are numbers to PROVE that pollution is bad.
I'm not sure that is necessarily bad. I think it is worse to go off making regulations based on bad or incomplete science. (Which has already been done) You may wind up making it worse. Car emissions standards are an example of this. You may recall the "winter fuel" requirements that were enacted roughly a decade ago. The EPA decided that certain additives should be placed in gasoline in "high air pollution" areas to help reduce air pollution from cars in the winter. Unfortunately, the regulation was based off of incomplete, manipulated or plain bad scientific studies, with heavy doses of lobbying by various groups (who had much to gain from requiring the additives). The result was higher emissions (due to reduced gas mileage while using the fuel) and poisoning of the water supply. (The chemical that was used in the winter gas (can't remember its name right now), it turns out, was coming down in the rain, and tainting the water supply)
Ironically, bigger strides were made in emissions reductions by auto manufacturers producing engines that run more efficiently. (An interesting fact is that cars don't need Catalytic converters anymore (due to advances in engine efficiency), but are still used because of federal regulations, adding unnecessary cost to cars)
Incidentally, I've seen recent studies that show operating modern cars contribute next to nothing in terms of "greenhouse gases," and aren't much of a source of pollution any more. It's coming from other sources. There was a benefit from early auto emissions regulations (ala the 60's and 70's) but much less benefit (if any) from those being implemented/added today.
Again, I don't think that we shouldn't take care of the environment, but base it off of good science, not incomplete or flawed science. Unfortunately, many of the rules that the EPA put out on this, are based on anything but.__________________
Sven
If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished.
Posted by Gameboy70 on 04-23-2001 08:15 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by yaz320
I like how he cut their stupid budget and is giving that money back to the hard working American taxpayers.
I'm sure you must love how he backpeddled on his campaign promise to cut CO2 emissions, also in violation with the signed Kyoto accord. Apparently, a lying president is only a "character" issue when it's not actually related to policy.
quote:
If people are so worried about the earth they shouldn't PAY people to pick it up for them, they should go out with a trashbag and do it THEMSELVES, NOT talk about it and let SOMEONE ELSE do all the dirty work.
The responsibility lies with those individuals and corporations who are not worried about the earth, but feel free to pollute it at will without cleaning up after themselves. If I ate a fast food lunch in your home and left the containers on your table, you might not appreciate me telling you that if you don't like my litter, you should get a trashbag and clean it up yourself.
Posted by homer on 04-23-2001 08:30 PM:
Sven:
VERY good points.
You're right policies based on bad science can very often lead to worse scenarios.
__________________
We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
-David Byrne
