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- Visor & Deluxe (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1)
-- Flash Upgradeable? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=68)

First things first: thank you for creating this site - so ably and so quickly.

Thanks, too, for the helpful link to the ZDNet and Pen Computing stories: the only places I've been able to locate detailed Visor product specifications. Obviously the reviewers were looking at some kind of data sheet (I don't guess they were able to figure things out by staring into the see-through housing). That being the case, it's regrettable that same data sheet hasn't been made available at the Handspring site. Since the site is the only place to buy the product, it should offer information like the version of the OS (3.1), the microprocessor (Dragonball, 16 MHz), and so on.

For instance, here's one thing I haven't been able to find anywhere: is the Visor flash upgradeable? That's the sort of thing that would be useful to know in making a purchase decision.

Again, thanks for making this invaluable resource available!

Well, the way I understand it is that the Visor is not flash-upgradable in the way that we currently think of flash upgrading. The way the Visor works (and I'm sure you already know this but I'm saying it anyway) is that you use "Springboards" that will be made available later to "temporarily upgrade" your Visor. You insert the Springboard into the slot and the software that comes on it is instantly installed and then you can use it until you remove the Springboard. At which point, the software is expelled from your Visor and it's back to the same way it was when you first inserted the Springboard. In other words, with another 8 meg expansion Springboard, it will function as a removable hard drive. You can store data to it and then remove it to keep the data stored until the next time you put it in the Visor. OK, that was quite a bit of info, so let me know if any of it is wrong.

Adding software by inserting a Springboard, while useful, is not really the point -- at least, it's not what I wanted to know, and I don't think it's what the original poster wanted to know. The real question is whether the built-in software (primarily the OS) is in flash ROM, so it can be upgraded.

For example, most of the articles about the Visor say it runs Palm OS 3.1, but I understand Palm Computing is releasing version 3.3 momentarily. I would want to know whether Visors can make use of such updates.

My original question was, in fact, about the upgradeability of the OS itself. When I was trying to decide between a Palm IIIe and a Palm IIIx (a decision I'm now delighted I deferred!), the inability to flash-upgrade the Palm IIIe OS via download was one of the things that tempted me to go for the IIIx. If that's not an option for the Visor either, then that's at least one potential negative worth noting. As a practical matter, it might make little difference; and it's not a bad tradeoff when you consider the greater memory, versatility and expandability of the Visor. But it's something to think about. I should also mention that the perfectly nice and helpful Handspring person I spoke to about this matter did not seem fully to understand the question. In any event, I didn't get an answer.

[This message has been edited by adVisor (edited 09-15-1999).]

Okay, I guess we can put this one to rest. I was finally able to talk to a Handspring representative who was willing to refer this question to a supervisor (or is that superVisor?). The Visor is NOT flash upgradeable. I don't think that'll stop me from buying one (if I was willing to consider a IIIe without that capability, I guess I can "scrape along" with four times the RAM). But it's nice to have the question answered, anyway.

[This message has been edited by adVisor (edited 09-16-1999).]

Don't worry, even though you can't update the OS in flash memory, you can apply patches. (The OS was designed to do this and it has worked great for several patches that have become available for the Palms.) It won't take you from a 3.x to 4.x version, but it does handle the inevitable bugs that crop up.

-Eric

Hmm...a slight drawback to the Visor has been found. But, this may be used as a good reason to by the next Handspring PDA...possibly to come out in late 2000???? So instead of a drawback, its a feature, an excuse to upgrade sometime in the future. I'll go along with that.

I know I'm stretching here but jeez...this thing is going to be so cool...

[This message has been edited by handsprung (edited 09-17-1999).]

This is almost a deal breaker for me... TI is making all of their new graphing calculators flash upgradeable... why not the Visor?

OK, a little troubling, but do people with palms usually upgrade their handhelds for new operating systems? Plus when is the next OS coming out? if it's a few years then most of us will have new PDA's anyway. If it's in 3 months though I don't want to be stuck with an obsolete machine, and i can't do anything about it. please give your thoughts,----------------------- Jeff

Heck if PalmOS 4.x were to come out it's likely that it will support a color screen (or at least 16 shades of gray), in which case i'd rather buy a brand new machine altogether.

Flash memory is great for inherently unstable operating systems that might require software patches in the future, but PalmOS 3.1 is a kickass rock-solid proven operating system that won't be needing any patches any time soon.

10bt

I don't think the lack of flash upgradeability alone would keep me from buying a Visor; it's just another useful fact in the analysis. But let's not reason backwards and try to convince ourselves the feature isn't desirable just because it isn't there. Obviously Palm thinks it's a worthwhile feature - the well-documented stability of OS 3.1 notwithstanding - since they've built it into the IIIx and the V.

To be honest, lack of Flash ROM is big drawback to me. I am seriously considering canceling my order since I do not want to be stacked with something buggy. 3.1 is stable but there are other features incorporated which are not proven. Somebody already mentioned that display behaves strangely when you tap above the top row of buttons. If I can get IIIx with same amount of memory plus scientific calculator for the same amount of money, I would choose IIIx.

So far, nobody's mentioned that the reason why there's no flash upgradeability is because of the Visor's low price. Handspring is trying to keep costs down, and flash memory is really expensive compared to ROM.

Witness the Palm IIIe. It's a low-priced version of the Palm III family, and -- guess what -- it doesn't have built-in flash either.

If you want flash upgradability, then it sounds like you want a Palm IIIx or a Palm V. Personally, I think the Visor is the better deal, especially since bugs in the Palm OS can be patched with or without flash.

I agree that OS 3.1 is a very stable OS. But as someont pointed out, it should be patch-upgradeable anyway. No big deal. If you're thinking you're going to miss out on PalmOS 4.0 or something, think about this:
Look back not too long ago at what Palm did: they released a IIIx and a V with OS 3.1 -- an OS that III's, PilotPro's, and below _couldn't_ upgrade to because they changed the processor!

Who knows? Maybe next year, Motorola will come out with a faster version of the DragonBallEZ with a few new features. Then Palm will release new machines with the new processor and OS 4.0. Then IIIx's, V's, Visors and every other PalmOS machine based on the DragonBallEZ will be unable to upgrade anyway. Where will you all be then?

I bought a III (with OS 3.0) when it came out. When the V/IIIx came out with OS 3.1, I sold my III and bought a V (soon after sold it and bought a IIIx). Most likely, I'll continue that upgrade path if the features in new machines are worth it.

Nonetheless, I'll keep my fingers crossed for a patch for OS 3.1 to OS 3.3. :-)

Actually, you just hit the point. All this guessing game is pretty annoying. I am sure that somebody from Handspring is reading this forums and they should provide us with minimum of technical details. If it is true that OS can be patched, than it is OK, Visor DeLuxe is great machine. BTW, can somebody explain how that "patching" works with plain ROM?