VisorCentral.com - Do you believe in trying out "full version" aps & games

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Posted by dick-richardson on 12-14-2001 06:34 AM:

Allow me to advance my own beliefs for criticism.
There is an absolute morality - God's. A person's conscience is...aware of it. The conscience is part and parcel of the soul. The soul is our consciousness (more or less - I'll address this later). The brain is "plugged into" the soul and regulates the body accordingly (along with the relatively simple act of maintenance). This attachment is sever-able (due to changes in the brain chemistry, destruction of part of the brain, etc.). Otherwise, I believe a lot more than mood would be integrated with the food we eat. A carrot would cause my left arm to raise, for example (this is a bit extreme - the body regulates what the brain receives a little better than indicated in my example). Along with the connection to the soul is the connection to the conscience. Excessive drug use could lead to an inability to sense the conscience (the person is the soul - (s)he still has it and tries to make the brain act according to its wishes). The brain, along with trying to respond to the consciousness, is trying to respond to basest desires (the id, IIRC) and sensorial input as well. This, in turn, affects the soul. The balance is, in my case, a 22 y/o male which I identify as myself. Habits are merely chemical repetitions that occur w/o conscious consultation. I also believe that a body can live w/o any attachment to the soul; the soul is not attached to a certain body through chemical or physiological attributes of the brain (I believe the attachment to be something more...intrinsic, yet alterable). A cloned human would not, unfortunately, yield proof either way. Were it a sociopath, some credence may be given to my hypothesis, but if it were not, I would argue that a soul had been "assigned."

Anyway, back off-topic, this tenuous link with the conscience means trying to ascertain its moral code is impossible. Hence my agreement that a different code is needed. I like object utilitarianism with guarantees of individual rights (as mentioned before).

This may contradict some of my previous arguments (though I don't believe so - then again, I wouldn't - never mind). My belief is constantly evolving. It is for this reason that I thought it in keeping with clarity to post.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Madkins007 on 12-14-2001 03:10 PM:

Isn't some of this (how can I put this...?) 'Off Topic?"

It is an interesting discussion, but we all know it will never end- all of us have seen this same discussion played over and over an myriad boards. Neither party gives in, but eventually both agree to disagree and move on.

Why not cut to that point now and get on to more satisfying discussions?

So, what do you think of Iambic charging for the ActionNames Datebook upgrade even for registered owners? Pretty big step considering that most upgrades by most vendors have been free, huh?

Posted by dick-richardson on 12-14-2001 03:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
Isn't some of this (how can I put this...?) 'Off Topic?"

It is an interesting discussion, but we all know it will never end- all of us have seen this same discussion played over and over an myriad boards. Neither party gives in, but eventually both agree to disagree and move on.

Why not cut to that point now and get on to more satisfying discussions?

So it veered off topic. You need not feel required to post. I am always amazed at the number of people that feel compelled to pass their judgement on a situation as if they were the end-all/say-all of what is worthy of discussion.

quote:
So, what do you think of Iambic charging for the ActionNames Datebook upgrade even for registered owners? Pretty big step considering that most upgrades by most vendors have been free, huh?

I think it sounds like a damn fine thread, but completely unrelated to anything discussed in this one.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by septimus on 12-14-2001 05:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
Isn't some of this (how can I put this...?) 'Off Topic?"

Ask a moderator to move the thread to the OT section. In fact, I'll do it:

Mods, can you move this to OT?

quote:
It is an interesting discussion, but we all know it will never end- all of us have seen this same discussion played over and over an myriad boards. Neither party gives in, but eventually both agree to disagree and move on.

...that may be, but it's not the same discussion and people have changed their beliefs... I've become more aware/tolerant of Mormonsim, DR has discovered that the conscience isn't a sound basis for a socal ethics, and so on.

quote:
Why not cut to that point now and get on to more satisfying discussions?

Some people are satisfied with cotton candy. Some people are satisfied with steak. We're not force-feeding you this thread.

quote:
So, what do you think of Iambic charging for the ActionNames Datebook upgrade even for registered owners? Pretty big step considering that most upgrades by most vendors have been free, huh?

Funny, that... though we're OT, it progressed that way somewhat naturally...

Believe it or not, folks, my love of gadgets is linked to my love of philosophy and debate, as everything in my life is linked. Whether we like it or not, the seemingly disparate parts of our lives are actually connected within our own lives and to each other. So while we're OT from the warez debate, we're actually just digging beneath it, looking for the roots of it.

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Posted by MarkEagle on 12-14-2001 06:06 PM:

Yup... time to go to Off Topic.

Just remember to keep it from getting personal... and don't jump on those that voice differing opinions as to where (or why) the thread is going. That's how threads get locked.

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Posted by septimus on 12-14-2001 06:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
Yup... time to go to Off Topic.

Thanks, MarkEagle...

quote:
Just remember to keep it from getting personal... and don't jump on those that voice differing opinions as to where (or why) the thread is going. That's how threads get locked.

Word. Apparently, it's also been noticed elsewhere that we sometimes take threads far afield. I'm guessing that I'm the "other nimrod."

*sigh*

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Posted by dick-richardson on 12-14-2001 08:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Word. Apparently, it's also been noticed elsewhere that we sometimes take threads far afield. I'm guessing that I'm the "other nimrod."

*sigh*

Probably. Wonderfully enough, I'm named explicitly.

Is this my 15 minutes?

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 12-15-2001 04:56 PM:

Well, I'm back home now, so I've much less time to 'waste', so I'll only address the Lennon stuff...

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
That has not been my interpretation of the song. Granted, I have not looked for his interpretation.

I haven't either. I'm just basing it on the song as a whole along with other songs he penned and other public positions which he freely spoke upon. It's fully possible he didn't believe in any of it privately, I suppose, but I'm not in the mood to speculate at the time.

quote:
Living for today is hardly rational, consequences being what they are.

I doubt that Lennon meant living for today in a hedonistic-ignore-the-consequences sort of way. It always seemed to me to be more of a live each day as if it's all you have or as if it's your last. He was a bit idealistic and naive WRT human nature. So, no it wasn't based on a rational belief necessarily.

Posted by Toby on 12-15-2001 04:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
Word. Apparently, it's also been noticed elsewhere that we sometimes take threads far afield. I'm guessing that I'm the "other nimrod."

Actually, it was nimrod_s_ plural. If the shoe fits, you're part of a faceless group. ;�~~~

Posted by dick-richardson on 12-15-2001 11:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
I haven't either. I'm just basing it on the song as a whole along with other songs he penned and other public positions which he freely spoke upon. It's fully possible he didn't believe in any of it privately, I suppose,

I just looked at the words briefly in high school in order to write a report, but my interpretation was it was an argument for atheism and communism. I have no idea what his real politcal or spiritual beliefs were.

quote:
but I'm not in the mood to speculate at the time.

Bad day at work? Here's a beer.

It'd be a nice change at my house at any rate.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by DanaWheels on 12-16-2001 04:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bradhaak

Very few, if any developers will care if you try before you buy if you really will buy. The issue is that most people will just use the free version. or they will download a time-limited evaluation version to perform a one-time task and then never pay for the functionality that they have used. If you have done this and not paid for the app, chances are that you violated the license agreement and you have certainly taken income from the developer.

BTW - I have a number of ebooks that I have downloaded that other people have scanned from copyrighted sources. In every single case, I have a print-copy of the book in question. This is a violation of copyright law in that copies have been made that have not been paid for. However, I have paid for legal copies, so that the copyright holder has been compensated. To me, this is illegal, but not immoral. from coversations with a number of the copyright holders, they tend to agree.

Congratulations

I HAVE used a trial version of a piece of software, to see if I want it, and HAVE used it to perform functions that I need for a project. Usually, it's a project that comes along every few years. *sigh* I have not bought the software, but I've also NOT used it past the evaluation period. For example, I used HotDog (a HTML program) during the 30 day free trial. Built 3 or 4 pages with it (that saw the light of the internet for maybe a month), but hated the learning curve and bought another program, after I tried THAT one out. I don't believe I'm violating the license agreement, as it's a FREE trial.

Now as for the ebooks... I totally agree with you. I have downloaded, say the Harry Potter books, and I have them in hard copy, so I have paid for them. I WILL buy a book that I have in ebook format if I got the ebook for free.

I had used WordSmith for 48 hours, with their use of the ebook reader, enhanced wordpad, etc, and didn't even use the EXTRA functions before I registered it. *grin* Even if I NEVER use the extra functions, I felt that supporting the developer was important since I was using the program to read ebooks, even thought they said I didn't have to pay for it. And it handles Microsoft Word files. The only thing I really need to convert, so I didn't even install Documents to Go, which was the demo I was going to install before I found WordSmith.

One thing I really like about the Palm, is that the software is VERY reasonably priced.

Dana

Posted by Keefer Lucas on 12-16-2001 03:31 PM:

Strictly Personal

Well, you won'd find any pirated software on my system.

Unless you count all those Adobe products.

Posted by Techie2000 on 12-16-2001 04:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DanaWheels

I HAVE used a trial version of a piece of software, to see if I want it, and HAVE used it to perform functions that I need for a project. Usually, it's a project that comes along every few years. *sigh* I have not bought the software, but I've also NOT used it past the evaluation period. For example, I used HotDog (a HTML program) during the 30 day free trial. Built 3 or 4 pages with it (that saw the light of the internet for maybe a month), but hated the learning curve and bought another program, after I tried THAT one out. I don't believe I'm violating the license agreement, as it's a FREE trial.

Now as for the ebooks... I totally agree with you. I have downloaded, say the Harry Potter books, and I have them in hard copy, so I have paid for them. I WILL buy a book that I have in ebook format if I got the ebook for free.

I had used WordSmith for 48 hours, with their use of the ebook reader, enhanced wordpad, etc, and didn't even use the EXTRA functions before I registered it. *grin* Even if I NEVER use the extra functions, I felt that supporting the developer was important since I was using the program to read ebooks, even thought they said I didn't have to pay for it. And it handles Microsoft Word files. The only thing I really need to convert, so I didn't even install Documents to Go, which was the demo I was going to install before I found WordSmith.

One thing I really like about the Palm, is that the software is VERY reasonably priced.

Dana

I agree, most software is reasonably priced. According to blue-nomad, last I checked, Wordsmith was free to use as a doc viewer, but you had to pay for using it as an editor after the trial period.

Second with the free trial thing, well I have to agree that it is a free trial and you can use it to do whatever you want until that trial expired. Course lots of shareware had freeware alternatives. A good free HTML editor is 1st Page from http://www.evrsoft.com/ with 4 modes ranging from easy (lots of dialogs and wizards) to hardcore (more drop down boxes that simply insert code, plus wizards to add Javascript).

I also agree that if you buy something in hard format you should get it in eBook for free. But eBooks are usually less expensive then most print books.

Posted by DanaWheels on 12-17-2001 12:35 AM:

Well, I got a good deal on Macromedia Homesite. I was teaching a BASIC programming course with a 2 day HTML course at the end at a technical college and got the educational price. Now that I own it, I can upgrade cheaply. Too bad, I no longer teaach. *sigh*

Yeah, ebooks in a different format if you own the hard copy is nice. I'm a hold a book in your hand myself, or I WAS, until I got my VNEO. I like being able to lay in bed and just have my VNEO instead of a heavy book.

Dana

quote:
Originally posted by Techie2000

I agree, most software is reasonably priced. According to blue-nomad, last I checked, Wordsmith was free to use as a doc viewer, but you had to pay for using it as an editor after the trial period.

Second with the free trial thing, well I have to agree that it is a free trial and you can use it to do whatever you want until that trial expired. Course lots of shareware had freeware alternatives. A good free HTML editor is 1st Page from http://www.evrsoft.com/ with 4 modes ranging from easy (lots of dialogs and wizards) to hardcore (more drop down boxes that simply insert code, plus wizards to add Javascript).

I also agree that if you buy something in hard format you should get it in eBook for free. But eBooks are usually less expensive then most print books.

Posted by dick-richardson on 12-17-2001 01:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Techie2000
I also agree that if you buy something in hard format you should get it in eBook for free. But eBooks are usually less expensive then most print books.

So, if you buy a hard cover, do you get the paperback for free?

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Techie2000 on 12-17-2001 02:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

So, if you buy a hard cover, do you get the paperback for free?

Nope.

Posted by Toby on 12-17-2001 02:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I just looked at the words briefly in high school in order to write a report, but my interpretation was it was an argument for atheism and communism.

*shrug* I'm not sure about atheism necessarily as much as organized religion. IOW, 'imagine there's no Heaven', not 'imagine there's no heaven'. Of course, it was also an important to note that there was 'no Hell below us'. To me it always seemed that Lennon's point was that we should be nice to our fellow man because they were our fellow man and not because of some after-life reward/punishment system.

quote:
I have no idea what his real politcal or spiritual beliefs were.

Me either. I only know what he wrote in his songs.

quote:
Bad day at work?

Nah...actually, back from a business trip and more concerned about spending time with the wife and little one.

Posted by dick-richardson on 12-17-2001 05:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Techie2000
Nope.

Then why would an electronic version be any different? You're not paying for the words, only the medium it is distributed in - unlike music where you can put the same song in as many different formats as you like.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by septimus on 12-17-2001 06:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Then why would an electronic version be any different? You're not paying for the words, only the medium it is distributed in - unlike music where you can put the same song in as many different formats as you like.

Well, you actually are paying for the words--you're purchasing a copy of a given "content." In the abstract, copyright laws don't give a good god damn whether you're talking about music, movies, books, paintings, or what have you.

So, you're paying for the "words," and thus have a right to consume them in any manner you wish. On the other hand, your right does not translate into a responsiblity for the publisher/creator. Neither does it translate into your right to steal another source of the book. What it does grant you the right to do is take your copy of the content and use it as you see fit within the bounds of copyright law, ex. OCR it into an ebook, quote it in a scholarly paper, eat it in tiny pieces, etc.

at least, that's my ignorant, layman's understanding of the law.

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Posted by GSR13 on 12-17-2001 06:55 AM:

Not trying to go any further off topic, but how do you Quote someone like Toby does? He replies to each paragraph immediately underneath that paragraph.

Is it as simple as just adding [/B] [/QUOTE] to the beginning and end of each paragraph?

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