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Posted by tantousha on 06-06-2002 04:09 AM:

Bush for President?

Your being Sarcastic right? How could anyone support Bush?

Posted by terrysalmi on 06-06-2002 05:09 AM:

You're right. I'd take it down right away. I mean, how could anyone support the guy who got our troops out of China (remember that?), or led our country after 9/11, or ended the reign of the Taliban in Afghanistan, or lowered your taxes? I mean, he's so bad, he is revitilizing the economy, raising money for Aghan children, put strength into America/Peace Corps. A bad president who is for education, and wants to put a quality teacher in every classroom. He is so terrible, he even signed the most important Nuclear Weapons treaty with Russia that America has probably ever signed.

How could anyone POSSIBLY vote for Bush?

(notice the major sarcasm)

I will PROUDLY vote for President Bush in 2004, and I will PROUDLY vote for the Republican Team this November.

It will be so nice to see Daschle lose his job in January, and go back to being MINORITY leader.

__________________

Friends don't let Friends vote Democrat
Victory 2002 - Republicans Win Control of the Senate
Now onto Victory 2004 - FOUR MORE YEARS

Posted by Veloslave on 06-06-2002 06:49 AM:

You go Terry!

quote:
Originally posted by terrysalmi
You're right. I'd take it down right away. I mean, how could anyone support the guy who got our troops out of China (remember that?), or led our country after 9/11, or ended the reign of the Taliban in Afghanistan, or lowered your taxes? I mean, he's so bad, he is revitilizing the economy, raising money for Aghan children, put strength into America/Peace Corps. A bad president who is for education, and wants to put a quality teacher in every classroom. He is so terrible, he even signed the most important Nuclear Weapons treaty with Russia that America has probably ever signed.

How could anyone POSSIBLY vote for Bush?

(notice the major sarcasm)

I will PROUDLY vote for President Bush in 2004, and I will PROUDLY vote for the Republican Team this November.

It will be so nice to see Daschle lose his job in January, and go back to being MINORITY leader.

DITTO!!!

You couldn't have said it better.

Rod

__________________
"Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

Romans 4:7

Posted by uncledrunkle on 06-06-2002 07:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by terrysalmi

You're right. I'd take it down right away. I mean, how could anyone support the guy who got our troops out of China (remember that?), or led our country after 9/11, or ended the reign of the Taliban in Afghanistan, or lowered your taxes? I mean, he's so bad, he is revitilizing the economy, raising money for Aghan children, put strength into America/Peace Corps. A bad president who is for education, and wants to put a quality teacher in every classroom. He is so terrible, he even signed the most important Nuclear Weapons treaty with Russia that America has probably ever signed.

How could anyone POSSIBLY vote for Bush?

(notice the major sarcasm)

Sorry but I couldn't resist...

Bush is an bumbling illiterate fool that's Forrest Gump'ed his way through those events you mentioned. Just imagine how much better an effective capable leader could have done.

As for lowering taxes and revitalizing the economy, LOL. He's lowered taxes for corporations (not us) who have in turn been laying off people by the boatload. The only people who have benefited from tax cuts are the crooked CEOs. Oh btw, the tax cut that you thought you got ($300) was just a loan - surprise.

As for what he did after 9/11, any monkey in the Oval Office would have reacted the same way... he hasn't done anything exemplary that would deserve praise.

And his pro-education stance is just a way to compensate for his lack thereof... it's all about spin and shaping public perception, i.e., fooling the sheep-like public. Remember, this was the guy who tried to slip subliminal messages into his campaign ads.

Sorry for going off topic, everyone. I just feel strongly about how Bush literaly stole the presidency and have subsequently failed to lead the global community out of the hell (economicaly and socially) that we are spiraling towards.

Posted by tantousha on 06-06-2002 07:15 AM:

Time to break out the facts.
Since getting into power he has:
Cut $39 million from federal spending on libraries

Cut $35 million in funding for advanced pediatric training for doctors

Cut funding for research into renewable energy sources by 50 percent

Delayed rules that would readuce "acceptable" levels of arsenic in drinking water

Cut funding for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks by 28 percent.

Revoked rules strengthening the power of the government to deny contracts to companies that violate federal laws, environmental laws, and workplace safety standards

Allowed Secretary of the Interior, Gale Norton, to request suggestions for opening up national monuments for foresting, coal mining, and oil and gas drilling

Broken his campaign promise to invest over $100 million a year in rain forest preservation

Reduced by 86 percent the Community Access Program, which coordinated care for people without health insurance among hospitals, clinics and other health care providers.

Nullified a proposal to increase public access to information about the potential ramifications of chemical plant accidents

Cut funding for the Girls and Boys Clubs of America programs in public housing by $60 million

Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol agreement on golbal warming, ultimately signed by 178 countries.

Rejected an international accord to enforce the 1972 treaty banning germ warfare.

Cut $200 million from workforce training programs for dislocated workers

Cut $200 million from the Childcare and Development grant, a program that provides child care to low-income families as they are forced from welfare to work

Eliminated prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees (though Viagra is still covered)

Cut $700 million in funds for public housing repairs

Cut half a billion dollars from the Environmental Protection Agency's budget

Overturned workplace ergonomic rules designed to protect workers' health and safety.

Abandoned his campaign pledge to regulate cardon dioxide emissions.

Appointed Lynn Scarlett, a global warming skeptic and an opponent of stricter standards on air pollution, as Undersecretary of the Interior

Announced plans to allow oil drilling in Montana's Lewis and Clark National Forest

Threatened to shut down the White House AIDS office

Decided no longer to seek guidance from the American Bar Association on federal judicial appointments

Denied college financial aid to students convicted of misdemeanor drug charges (though convicted murderers are still eligible)

Allocated only 3 percent of the amount requested by Justice Department lawyers in the government's continued litigation aginst tobacco companies

Pushed through the tax cut, 43 percent of which goes to the welthiest 1 percent of Americans

Pushed for development of "mini-nukes", a direct violation of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty

Tried to reverse regulation protecting sixty million acres of national forest from logging and road building

Made Monsanto executive Linda Fisher deputy administrator of the EPA

Nominated civil rights opponent Terrence Boyle to a federal judgeship

Canceled the 2004 deadline for auto makers to develop prototype high-mileage cars

Proposed the selling of oil and gas tracts in the Alaska Wildlife Preserve.

Need I go on? I hope not, my fingers are tired and I could still do quite a bit more...Also if you want me to explain away the Afghanistan thing and September 11 and Enron and and and then go ahead, make my day!

Alex.

P.S. Terry, no hard feelings?

Oh and I should probably mention that when asked by reporters in an interview, he said his favorite childhood book was "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" which wasn't actually published until the year Bush suppossedly graduated from College!!! hmmmm...

Posted by ToolkiT on 06-06-2002 08:01 AM:

Moved the off topic part of this thread to 'off topic'

Please continue the discusion here, but please no flames....

Personally I don't trust Bush... I'm afraid he has a hidden agenda.
Also he does not come across as intelligent and/or honest...
Backing out of those treaties (Kyoto etc.) , just confirmed my feeling...
His eager to go to war frightens me too...

__________________
<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Posted by tantousha on 06-06-2002 08:13 AM:

I am really causing a mess today toolkit sorry...hehehe, it's fun though.
Alex.

Posted by Veloslave on 06-06-2002 09:06 AM:

Like it or not

Dont forget that he has the highest approval ratings of any president in a LONG time.

You naysayers must be part of the 20 something percent that does not approve.

I guess it must be hard to be the minority.

Rod

__________________
"Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

Romans 4:7

Posted by ToolkiT on 06-06-2002 10:54 AM:

Re: Like it or not

quote:
Originally posted by Veloslave
Dont forget that he has the highest approval ratings of any president in a LONG time.

You naysayers must be part of the 20 something percent that does not approve.

I guess it must be hard to be the minority.

Rod

Nothing boosts popularity more than a crisis....

__________________
<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Posted by ToolkiT on 06-06-2002 10:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by tantousha
I am really causing a mess today toolkit sorry...hehehe, it's fun though.
Alex.

You really make me work for my money.. hey, that reminds me, I don't get paid for this... mmmm

__________________
<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Posted by NeilMcD on 06-06-2002 03:05 PM:

Democrat here...

As much as I believe that Bush has done some pretty stupid things, I have to point out a few things:

Clinton has done stupid things. (Lewinsky, Whitewater)

Bush I did stupid things. (Not finishing the Gulf War)

Reagan did stupid things. (Iran-Contra)

Carter did stupid things. (Panama Canal giveaway)

Ford did stupid things (falling down stairs)

Nixon did stupid things (forgetting about the tape recorder)

Johnson did stupid things (kept Vietnam going even when he knew it couldn't be won)

Kennedy did stupid things (bay of pigs. going to dallas)

All presidents do stupid things. Even Roosevelt during WWII did a whole mess of stupid things (internment camps, tried to pack the Supreme Court) because there were two major crises going on at the same time.

Fairly balanced. 4 republican ex-prez's and 4 dem ex prez's. If Al Gore was president now, I would be saying he's doing stupid things.

If you want a president who doesn't do stupid things, people have to look outside the political arena and go to where the good and ethical people are. A profession like law or something like that.

Posted by Madkins007 on 06-06-2002 03:19 PM:

OK, so Bush is a bit of a bozo. So... who has been a 'good' president in our lifetimes?

What PRESIDENT helped the economy? None. Clinton took full credit for an economy that began to upswing under the other Bush's administration- but the president does not have a lot of direct effect on the economy.

Budget? The president does not have a lot of power over the budget, which is always quite funny when they promise they will balance it or do anything specific with it.

Programs? Whether it is drugs, terrorism, education, health care, or whatever other program they want to emplace, it is mostly a charade. They cannot create funds for these independently, cannot administer them personally, and it is almost impossible to create a program and impliment it nationally in four years.

Foreign relations and policies? Are mostly set by others in the government that the president has limited control over.

If a president does something human, the press is all over them (laugh at the wrong time, get ill, stumble, misspeak, etc.). If the president actually DOES anything, he (and hopefully, eventually 'she') will instantly alienate 50% of the population.

You guys listed good and bad things about 'W'. Has there EVER been a president that the same could not be said for? Even our country's most esteemed presidents had scandals, 'bad calls', empty promises, and so on during their adminstrations. Even our worst presidents did SOMETHING right.

Of course- this is EXACTLY why there is the REST of the government- to share the blame! (er... I mean... "to try to accomplish the difficult task of running our great country!")

__________________
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are at!

Posted by sowens on 06-06-2002 05:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by uncledrunkle

Sorry but I couldn't resist...

Bush is an bumbling illiterate fool that's Forrest Gump'ed his way through those events you mentioned. Just imagine how much better an effective capable leader could have done.

One hallmark of a good leader is the quality of the people he gathers around him. Bush may be a bumbling fool, but Cheney, Powell, and Rice certainly aren't.

IMHO, as always.

__________________
It's gotta be weather balloons. It's always weather balloons. Big, fiery, exploding weather balloons.
-- ComaVN (from Slashdot)

Posted by Toby on 06-06-2002 06:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by uncledrunkle
[...] Just imagine how much better an effective capable leader could have done. [...]

Like who? People in Gore's own party were doubting that he could have handled things as well as Bush's team. Face it. Neither the Republicans _or_ Democrats has an effective capable leader in its midst.

Posted by terrysalmi on 06-06-2002 07:37 PM:

quote:
Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol agreement on golbal warming, ultimately signed by 178 countries.

Thank god he did, it was a very UNAMERICAN treaty. BTW, remember when Gore went to that a couple years ago? You know how he traveled? You know how much of that treaty he would of broken in that trip alone?

quote:
Proposed the selling of oil and gas tracts in the Alaska Wildlife Preserve.

What a great idea? Why keep taking oil from Saudi Arabia (Where a majority of the hijackers came from) or Iraq, when we can supply it ourselves?

President Bush has done a lot more as President than Clinton ever did. Bush doesn't need to worry about a legacy, he has more important things to do. Clinton was sitting behind his desk (w/ monica under it) the entire time, and in the last year of his presidency, screwed up the Middle East Peace Process looking for a legacy.

quote:
Bush is an bumbling illiterate fool that's Forrest Gump'ed his way through those events you mentioned. Just imagine how much better an effective capable leader could have done.

He got in the White House, didn't he? Never a small task that Forrest Gump could have done. The events I mentioned? Even the most liberal people I know have admitted they would be scared of what would of happened if Gore was in the White House during 9-11. (Reminds me of the Berkley City Council, which signed a memorundum in favor of Arabs and against the War on Terrorism directly after 9-11 happened). A much better and effective capable leader? He must be doing something right, as he has the highest approval ratings of any president, ever, higher then FDR after Pearl Harbor, or his father during the gulf war (and a lot higher than Johnson during Viet-Nam). His current Job approval based on general feelings, not specific achievements (Gallup Poll, May 30), a long time after 9-11, rests around 76%, a lot higher than Clinton, who was around 50% most of the time, if not lower.

Edit: Guess what Daschle's Job Approval Rating is, at the same time? The great MAJORITY (??) leader of the Senate (which has not done a single thing for the past year), has a job approval rating of 23.8%

Madkins - I should get you to volunteer w/ the Victory 2002 office here in town for Johanns, Hagel, and Terry.

Also, on a side note: Tantousha and ToolKit, you both bring your anti-Bush message here. No disrespect, but to be quite honest and direct, I don't care if you don't like Bush. You do not live in the United States, and learn exactly what he is and has done. You do not get both sides of the story (only what you hear on the Clinton News Network). And most of all: You don't vote in U.S. elections. I have no compelling reason to listen to either of you. I don't comment on your Prime Ministers (or Queen), so why should I listen to you blast my President? And so far, you are the only people that have. (Uncle Drunkie might live in the USA, but his message sounds like it came from someone Drunk). All the users that claim they live in the USA so far have supported Bush here, so we must know what we are talking about (we live here, don't we?)

__________________

Friends don't let Friends vote Democrat
Victory 2002 - Republicans Win Control of the Senate
Now onto Victory 2004 - FOUR MORE YEARS

Posted by Toby on 06-06-2002 08:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by terrysalmi
[...] All the users that claim they live in the USA so far have supported Bush here, so we must know what we are talking about (we live here, don't we?)

Ahem...I live in the USA, and I most certainly do not 'support' Bush (I don't support the 'other' side either, though). Both the Republicans and the Democrats are full of it. They each pander to the segment of the population which will get them elected. That's ultimately all _either_ of them care about. If they actually stood _for_ something, you wouldn't see each party systematically swing to the center around election times.

Posted by Veloslave on 06-06-2002 08:42 PM:

Re: Re: Like it or not

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

Nothing boosts popularity more than a crisis....

And which Presidency didn't have a crisis?

Rod

__________________
"Happy are they whose sins are forgiven, whose wrongs are pardoned"

Romans 4:7

Posted by terrysalmi on 06-06-2002 09:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
They each pander to the segment of the population which will get them elected. That's ultimately all _either_ of them care about. If they actually stood _for_ something, you wouldn't see each party systematically swing to the center around election times.

Hmm. Are you forgetting when you took Government in High School? Where they described America's political system is based on elections?

Any political party in the United States that does not focus on elections does not get elected. Simple as that. That is why there is no Ross Perot or Ralph Nader in the White House (or any Green's in Congress, etc). Also, the parties do stand for stuff, in general. That is what helps them get elected. If you cannot get elected, then you can't even try to do anything you have pledged to do during the election.

When you express your constitutional right and VOTE, you get to pick who SPECIFICALLY represents YOU in the Government. The Party might not stand for something, but on the other hand, the person might. You have a choice in the matter. Before you say - My vote doesn't matter, remember this:

quote:
In the 1960 presidential election, an additional one vote per precinct for Richard Nixon in just two of four key states, Illinois, Missouri, New Jersey or Texas, would have altered the course of modern America by denying John F. Kennedy the presidency and placing Nixon in the White House eight years earlier.

__________________

Friends don't let Friends vote Democrat
Victory 2002 - Republicans Win Control of the Senate
Now onto Victory 2004 - FOUR MORE YEARS

Posted by Toby on 06-06-2002 09:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by terrysalmi
Hmm. Are you forgetting when you took Government in High School?

Not at all.

quote:
Where they described America's political system is based on elections?

No, America's current political system is based on marketing and advertising. Elections don't matter anymore.

quote:
Any political party in the United States that does not focus on elections does not get elected. Simple as that.

That sound you heard was the point whizzing by you. The system as it is is nothing like the system that is supposed to be which is taught in 'Government class'.

quote:
That is why there is no Ross Perot or Ralph Nader in the White House (or any Green's in Congress, etc).

No, money and TV time is why there aren't any third party candidates in the White House. The Big Two don't have the balls to debate someone outside of their party on national TV (unless it's a total loon like Perot).

quote:
Also, the parties do stand for stuff, in general.

Name one stance that either the Democrats or Repulicans have which is non-compromisable and does not originate from another 'third-party' candidate.

quote:
That is what helps them get elected.

No, money, lies, and TV time are what help them get elected.

quote:
If you cannot get elected, then you can't even try to do anything you have pledged to do during the election.

And you can't promise to do more stuff to get re-elected.

quote:
When you express your constitutional right and VOTE, you get to pick who SPECIFICALLY represents YOU in the Government.

No, you get to vote on somebody. That's no guarantee that they're going to represent you, even if they win.

quote:
The Party might not stand for something, but on the other hand, the person might.

Until the party whips them into line lest they not get funded next time around.

quote:
You have a choice in the matter.

A choice between a blue bag of sh*t and a red bag of sh*t is still a bag of sh*t when you get down to it.

quote:
Before you say - My vote doesn't matter, remember this:

I never said anything about votes not mattering. Try to actually deal with people as individuals rather than just trotting out propaganda and stereotypes, if you don't mind.

Posted by terrysalmi on 06-06-2002 09:59 PM:

quote:
No, America's current political system is based on marketing and advertising. Elections don't matter anymore.

Well, what is the marketing and advertising there to do? Win elections.

quote:
That sound you heard was the point whizzing by you. The system as it is is nothing like the system that is supposed to be which is taught in 'Government class'.

You'd be suprised, as you probably haven't taken Government in a while. I am big into politics (and my brother is a state co-chairman for the Young Republicans), and the system is pretty close-on. It's people like you that distort the facts.

quote:
No, money and TV time is why there aren't any third party candidates in the White House. The Big Two don't have the balls to debate someone outside of their party on national TV (unless it's a total loon like Perot).

Hmm - I'd quote what I said before. "Well, what is the marketing and advertising there to do? Win elections." The Big Two haven't faced any worthwile competitition that they SHOULD debate.

quote:
Name one stance that either the Democrats or Repulicans have which is non-compromisable and does not originate from another 'third-party' candidate.

Democrats: Bigger Government, Blue-Collared Support, Higher Taxes, all the time.
Republicans: Smaller Government, Less Taxes, all the time.

quote:
No, you get to vote on somebody. That's no guarantee that they're going to represent you, even if they win.

Yes, but if you don't vote, you have no right to complain about the person who gets elected. If you do vote, you can be glad you helped take part in the system, and you can write letters and call the candidate that did so they don't forget your issues.

quote:
I never said anything about votes not mattering. Try to actually deal with people as individuals rather than just trotting out propaganda and stereotypes, if you don't mind.

Hmm...when I vote for Bush and not Gore, that is dealing with people as individuals. When I voted against Nebraska Initiative 416 in 2000, banning same-sex marriages, I was going against the Republican tide. When I look at every race as a different one, and looking to see who will best represent ME, that is looking at the person.

You want to look at Bush, as a person?
- He recieved a Bachelors Degree from Yale and a Masters in Business from Harvard
- He actually served our countries military as an F-102 pilot in the Texas Air National Guard (while Clinton left the country to avoid the draft)
- He was the first Texas Governor to be elected to two consecutive four-year terms, the second time, with 68% of the vote
- When he was elected President, he put in his cabinet the strongest minds in the country, to help this country get on the right track.

__________________

Friends don't let Friends vote Democrat
Victory 2002 - Republicans Win Control of the Senate
Now onto Victory 2004 - FOUR MORE YEARS

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