VisorCentral.com - Implications of MemPlug & PiDirect

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- Implications of MemPlug & PiDirect (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=15553)

Posted by ssas on 06-04-2001 03:12 PM:

quote:

1. When PiDirect is announced, we haven't said it is free.
2. Pi-Apps is not perfect, and still have areas to improve, but I don't think they are ugly, useless and buggy.
3. We have continuous improving. And have released 3 flash update in the past 3 month since Memplug released. And our support team reply customers' email round the clock. How many SpringBoard Module manufactures have this kind of support?
4. The CSpotRun porting just spend me a few weeks spare time to complete, and I place it free for download. But PiDirect spend our whole software team a few months, working days and nights, could we charge for our effort?
5. PiDirect will be bundled with next updater with a few limitation free for download. But if you really love this software and want to support us, you may want a full version.
6. If you think it is an easy task to make a similar program, you are welcomed to download our Memplug SDK for free. Which has completed API for accessing SmartMedia.

- PiDeveloper

1. Oh. You didn't say that you will sell it.
2. PiMover is really ugly. Every newbie can make such GUI in an hour. It's really slow, It looks like a toy. Where is such an easy thing like drag and drop ? Why I'm unable to move program from one folder to another without copy to RAM ? Where is a gate to hotsync ?
PiBackup is really buggy. Take two databases from hotsync and your backup and COMPARE it ! They are different! I lost all my Ultrasoft Money info due this problem and reported about 1.5 month ago. You said that it will be fixed ASAP.... But I haven't seen any fixes yet.
JPGView is really useless. Isn't it stupid answer 'convert it to gmedia format' ? Do you know a way how I can convert it without PC ? But if I have PC I can see my images on IT!
3. You are right. Your customer support is really good. But I can't remember - did I order support or the device with full software bundle ? Possible second one. Support is your task, so you have to do it.
4. CSpot tooks 2 weeks ?!?! There are 2 options :
a) memplug has difficult and ugly API ( haven't seen it yet)
b) you're a newbie programmer ( if PiMover GUI was developed by you, then this option is more appropriate). I understand that it's not easy to make such application like PiDirect, but it will increase sales of memplug. Anyway it's up to you. I'm sure it will be hacked in the first week after release.
5. I supported you then I bought this crap in the first week. There was no information about sticking SM, really slow speed, buggy software. I spend a lot of time and money to get it in Russia, and got just another ugly module ( first one was Total Recall - a real POS).
6. why do you whine ? Why should I write something then YOU promised to do it ? Actually I'll try to make such application if your API is really usable.

Sorry for my English, but I'm sure you don't know Russian at all.

Posted by yardie on 06-04-2001 04:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssas

Sorry for my English, but I'm sure you don't know Russian at all.

Hey Ssas. Why don't you take a shot at creating a better soltuin suing PiTech's API? Everyone here apart from you are happy with their Memplug. If it was that bad wouldn't other people be complaining about the solution? I think you should choose your words more carefully.

Posted by Gameboy70 on 06-04-2001 04:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by PiDeveloper
1. When PiDirect is announced, we haven't said it is free.

You also haven't said to customers who paid for the MemPlug that it wasn't free. Which is more misleading? While you don't necessarily owe anything to MemPlug owners who bought the product before PiDirect was announced, the imminent release of PiDirect certainly influenced more than a few potential customers to buy the MemPlug who otherwise would not have considered a memory solution that couldn't run apps directly. You have every right to charge for your software, but your intentions should've been stated immediately in the initial press release. That's a very basic piece of information, and there was no reason to leave it out.

The only thing that's stopped me from getting the MemPlug is the wait for the shipping issues to be resolved. Had I ordered the MemPlug, I would've inferred that PiDirect, like all of PI's other bundled apps, would be included in the purchase. Again, it would've been very easy to disabuse customers of that assumption just by putting the cards on the table from the outset. I'm still getting the MemPlug, but de facto bait-and-switch tactics like this are unjustified.

How about setting things right and announcing a price?

Posted by headgamer on 06-04-2001 06:05 PM:

Geez, I can't believe the extent of the flaming going on here against PIT. Do I wish some things were changed about the software (esp. PIViwer and the 8x reduction issue)? Of course. Would I like more "eye candy" (which is all you're asking for when you say something is ugly - it doesn't add to the functionality)? Sure. Do I wish PIDirect were included/free? You bet.

But I have seen NO OTHER module company as dedicated to customer support as PIT. You have to remember this isn;t some huge company - their resources ARE limited. If you want something so bad and you keep making compaints that "newbie" programmers could do it all. Then do it.

All I can say is this. No product is perfect, and we all have our right to complain. But getting nasty about the whole thing is fruitless. You catch a HECK of a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar. Getting nasty only serves to reduce credibility and shoot yourself in the foot.

I know what I am saying is opening myself up for flames too, but that's okay. I can handle it.

In the meantime, I will fully support PIT in what they do. That being said, it WOULD be nice to have some kind of idea of the price of PIDirect.

PIDeveloper? Any info?

A staunch PIT supporter,

__________________
J. Sean McKay, Ph.D.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In every work of genius....
we recognize our own rejected thoughts."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by linguas on 06-04-2001 06:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssas

CSpot tooks 2 weeks ?!?! There are 2 options :
...b) you're a newbie programmer ( if PiMover GUI was developed by you, then this option is more appropriate

Actually, he sounds more like a professional Software Engineer to me. Supportable, upgradeable software takes a bit longer to develop, given that there is research, design and debugging involved prior to release. I'd much rather get software that took some time (and care) to develop than some piece of crap cobbled together by a "programmer" who's so good that it only took him one all-nighter. I applaud PI for producing a product that meets their customers needs!

__________________
Eschew obfuscation!

Posted by adfleisher on 06-04-2001 06:33 PM:

I would rather have functional software that does what it is supposed to do than have programmers trying to make crap look pretty for the masses. Pi has done this the right way. Just remember folks, even without PiDirect the MemPlug is the best memory expansion available for the Visor. With it, we have the best memory expansion available ANYWHERE on the palm platform.

If you want complete access to unlimited storage without paying for the software, switch to PocketPC. Oh wait, with pocket PC you are forced to pay Microsoft for bloatware that is clunky and hard to use rather than straight forward, easy to use software.

Pi's software isn't perfect, but it beats the heck out of anything else out there, and I will continue to sing this companys praises and recomend their products both to friends and buisness contacts.

PiDeveloper, keep doing what your doing.

Drew

__________________
"Whoever said bigger isn't better...Lied!"

Posted by bookrats on 06-04-2001 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by linguas

Actually, he sounds more like a professional Software Engineer to me. Supportable, upgradeable software takes a bit longer to develop, given that there is research, design and debugging involved prior to release. I'd much rather get software that took some time (and care) to develop than some piece of crap cobbled together by a "programmer" who's so good that it only took him one all-nighter. I applaud PI for producing a product that meets their customers needs!

Hear, hear. I'm more than willing to pay for a solid and supported software. And it takes time, skill and attention to detail to produce applications like that. Hackers need not apply.

__________________
Jeff Meyer

"And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."

Posted by akur on 06-04-2001 06:44 PM:

PiDeveloper, Maybe you can answer my question.
If I buy a full version of PiDirect. Should I buy two of them if I have Smartmedia and CF Memplug?
Thanks

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I Love My Prism!

Posted by ssas on 06-04-2001 06:52 PM:

quote:

Actually, he sounds more like a professional Software Engineer to me. Supportable, upgradeable software takes a bit longer to develop, given that there is research, design and debugging involved prior to release. I'd much rather get software that took some time (and care) to develop than some piece of crap cobbled together by a "programmer" who's so good that it only took him one all-nighter. I applaud PI for producing a product that meets their customers needs!

Don't explain me what is developing. And where do you find 'upgradeable' software ? There is a Flash module and each time you write just new version of file. Support is a thing I paid for. But I haven't got any support yet. I'm still waiting for PiBackup where fixed bugs but not typos. And first thing is : where is a real speed of SM ???? Why it so slow then creating or deleting ? My old Fuji 1200 is deleting 20 times faster. You can applaud to anybody, but if I paid for software it should work. At the moment I can use only one programm - CSpot, all other makes me gag.

Posted by MHCohn on 06-04-2001 08:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssas

all other makes me gag.

Ssas, you really ought to pull back a moment and examine whether this rage and fury you feel, which just radiates red hot and glowing from your post, is justifiably directed at PIT, or somewhere else.

All software can be improved, and PIT's certainly can. In fact, that's what they are actively doing. Recall for a second that this is - after all - only a BETA, not final release. As to your comment that if you paid for software it should work, well, you haven't paid for this software yet. Not only is it beta, it's FREE.

We don't know what the final price of this software will be and/or how many people will want it at any cost. Jeez, I know lots of Palm and Visor owners who haven't even filled up their 8 or even 2 megs yet. If you're on the bleeding edge of technolust and crave that extra 128 megs of memory, then you ought to be willing to pay a couple of bucks for it. Hey, for that matter Handspring could have put more memory in, but didn't. Why are you so pissed at PIT for giving us the option of paying a few bucks to get it?

All of us here could probably benefit from your knowledge and experience, as well as your observations of this and other items of hard and software, but, really...take it down a couple of notches.

__________________
-Michael-

Posted by Matthew Nichols on 06-04-2001 08:27 PM:

For right now I'll ignore the misleading press release & web site, or the fact that PiTech wouldn't even still be here without us early adopters, and wait till the 15th (Or maybe sooner) when we'll find out how much this software truly costs. After we all find out the cost then we'll be able to make our opinions known with knowledge.

__________________
Matt Nichols
[email protected]

Posted by enhanceyourlife on 06-04-2001 08:32 PM:

Amen Matt

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Posted by Euxx on 06-04-2001 08:46 PM:

MemPlug API

I would like to made just one note about quality of their API. Several engineering decisions pretty strange in there.

And I still can't understand why they didn't use any of present API in that time (there was one from TRG and another from CLIE; CLIE's now used in Palm's m500 devices).

Posted by dvIceT on 06-04-2001 11:01 PM:

Re: MemPlug API

quote:
Originally posted by Euxx
I would like to made just one note about quality of their API. Several engineering decisions pretty strange in there.

And I still can't understand why they didn't use any of present API in that time (there was one from TRG and another from CLIE; CLIE's now used in Palm's m500 devices).

Sorry Euxx,

these guys aren't working their butts off so you don't have to spend any money on software. While VFS-support would be great, I'm pretty sure all your talk of "standard" API's especially VFS is based on the efforts of another hard-working programmer, who has for now *chosen* to give away his PiDirect-like MSMount for free.

If you would be complaining just as loudly about the "non-standard" MemPlug API if PiDirect were free and you had to pay for MSMount, I apologize, but there's just a Napster-esque quality to your and many other posts in this thread.

Posted by waynorth on 06-05-2001 12:08 AM:

I have to jump in very quickly and say that I love the Memplug. It is the module that is always in my Prism. I have a Toshiba digital camera that uses Smart Media which works great. The benefits include carrying pics with me on business trips, making backups, reading books and tons of room for games - 64 meg card.

For people who complain about the card not doing everything they want it to do, here are a few other options.

the 16 meg module from Hagiwara - $139,
the back up module from Handspring - $39,
Teal Movie - $19.95, and a bag to carry everything in...

Happy spending.

__________________
________________________
WayNorth
[email protected]

Posted by dvIceT on 06-05-2001 12:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Gameboy70

You also haven't said to customers who paid for the MemPlug that it wasn't free. Which is more misleading? While you don't necessarily owe anything to MemPlug owners who bought the product before PiDirect was announced, the imminent release of PiDirect certainly influenced more than a few potential customers to buy the MemPlug who otherwise would not have considered a memory solution that couldn't run apps directly. You have every right to charge for your software, but your intentions should've been stated immediately in the initial press release. That's a very basic piece of information, and there was no reason to leave it out.

The only thing that's stopped me from getting the MemPlug is the wait for the shipping issues to be resolved. Had I ordered the MemPlug, I would've inferred that PiDirect, like all of PI's other bundled apps, would be included in the purchase. Again, it would've been very easy to disabuse customers of that assumption just by putting the cards on the table from the outset. I'm still getting the MemPlug, but de facto bait-and-switch tactics like this are unjustified.

How about setting things right and announcing a price?

I don't think we should blame PI Technology if we were self-deceived. We obviously are accustomed to the gratis nature of the Internet, but we have only ourselves to blame for assuming we can get everything for free. I bought the MemPlug, because it was and still is the premier removable memory card Springboard. For the vast majority of MemPlug purchasers, there is *no* bait-and-switch, de facto or otherwise, because the vast majority purchased it months before the official announcement of PiDirect within the last week or even the rumors of some beta-tested AutoCF-type MemPlug software in the last couple of weeks.

I think we would all be better off disabusing *ourselves* of the notion that every piece of software that comes down the pike should be completely free.

Posted by dvIceT on 06-05-2001 01:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssas

Don't explain me what is developing. And where do you find 'upgradeable' software ? There is a Flash module and each time you write just new version of file. Support is a thing I paid for. But I haven't got any support yet. I'm still waiting for PiBackup where fixed bugs but not typos. And first thing is : where is a real speed of SM ???? Why it so slow then creating or deleting ? My old Fuji 1200 is deleting 20 times faster. You can applaud to anybody, but if I paid for software it should work. At the moment I can use only one programm - CSpot, all other makes me gag.

Are you a programmer? Before you slur someone else's programming ability, show us how your programming solution is better. At the very least, demonstrate that you have the technical abilty and know-how to even begin to credibly slur someone else.

BTW, old Fuji 1200 or not, it has a *dedicated hardware* controller to handle the I/O necessary to read/write the card. A dedicated controller will outperform a software controller, like the MemPlug uses, especially one running on the visor's relatively anemic processor. CF flashadapters are faster largely because the controller is built into the CF card itself.

Posted by sschweg on 06-05-2001 01:24 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssas

1. Oh. You didn't say that you will sell it.
2. PiMover is really ugly. Every newbie can make such GUI in an hour. It's really slow, It looks like a toy. Where is such an easy thing like drag and drop ? Why I'm unable to move program from one folder to another without copy to RAM ? Where is a gate to hotsync ?
PiBackup is really buggy. Take two databases from hotsync and your backup and COMPARE it ! They are different! I lost all my Ultrasoft Money info due this problem and reported about 1.5 month ago. You said that it will be fixed ASAP.... But I haven't seen any fixes yet.
JPGView is really useless. Isn't it stupid answer 'convert it to gmedia format' ? Do you know a way how I can convert it without PC ? But if I have PC I can see my images on IT!
3. You are right. Your customer support is really good. But I can't remember - did I order support or the device with full software bundle ? Possible second one. Support is your task, so you have to do it.
4. CSpot tooks 2 weeks ?!?! There are 2 options :
a) memplug has difficult and ugly API ( haven't seen it yet)
b) you're a newbie programmer ( if PiMover GUI was developed by you, then this option is more appropriate). I understand that it's not easy to make such application like PiDirect, but it will increase sales of memplug. Anyway it's up to you. I'm sure it will be hacked in the first week after release.
5. I supported you then I bought this crap in the first week. There was no information about sticking SM, really slow speed, buggy software. I spend a lot of time and money to get it in Russia, and got just another ugly module ( first one was Total Recall - a real POS).
6. why do you whine ? Why should I write something then YOU promised to do it ? Actually I'll try to make such application if your API is really usable.

Sorry for my English, but I'm sure you don't know Russian at all.

OK ssas, As Popeye was fond of saying, "I've stood all I can stands and I can't stands no more!"...

1.From the PITech.com website...

quote:

The company is funded by a private Angel Investor who has been actively involved in funding high technology Start-up Company.

This investor has ventured money on the hope of a return on his investment, and he deserves to expect just that. If it adds value (which it does) they are going to sell it. This is why they exist, to return a profit for the investor. No profit=No investor. No investor=No MemPlug.

2.These guys are good...

While they may have used the "ready, fire, aim" method, they saw a need in the marketplace and moved at the speed of light to fill it. And fill it they have, even if they never write another line of code. They have updated it 2 or 3 times and it's only been on the market for 3 or 4 months.

They have said repeatedly that the jpeg viewer was for the convenience of digital camera owners so they could see what was on the card. They have not represented it as a replacement for SplashPhoto. What we bought when we bought the MemPlug was simply the ability to have up to 128mb of storage on board that could be accessed to move or copy programs, which brings us to...

3.... from ssas..."Your customer support is really good. But I can't remember - did I order support or the device with full software bundle ? Possible second one. Support is your task, so you have to do it."

We got what we paid for. There was no implied promise that they would add to it's value in the future. Did you really think that they were going to sell you this hardware and them totally upgrade it's functionality forever at their expense?

4. These guys have a pretty impressive resume...

Again from the PITech website...

quote:

Portable Innovation Technology Ltd. is founded by 3 ex-Motorolan and an investment banker in 2000. The founders have over 15 years of experience in handheld computing product development. In fact they were part of the core team members in the development of the Motorola's DragonBallSeries Microprocessor, which is the CPU of every Palm OS handheld devices built so far.

I, uh, missed your list of accomplishments amidst your irritating combination of arrogance and complaining.

One of the employees of PIT took his own personal time to modify CSpotRun and made it available to us at no charge.

quote:
Originally posted by PiDeveloper

1. I play a trick on the long file name generation. In stead of looking for the long filename, I just decode the header information of the pdb file.

2. Yes, it support PRC extension now. And I have filter out unsupported PDB or PRC format too.

3. It is rumors. TXT Just supported by accident in my last version. but with potential crash. So I disable it in this version. I think it can be easy to modify it to have a stable TXT support. Are you interested in developing it?

4. I just work on it on my free time... So it will be great if other developers working on it. It can really speed up the development. And I still have many other things working on right now

5. I will roll the source code into our SDK soon.

-PiDeveloper

again from ssas...Anyway it's up to you. I'm sure it will be hacked in the first week after release.

If this is the case, and you plan to steal it anyway, why the lament?

5. You threatened to send it back in February. Maybe you should have.

6. once more form above..."Actually I'll try to make such application if your API is really usable."

This, I really would like to see.

Actually, your English is very good, it's your additude that needs work IMHO. ;-)

Besides, someone that is so centered on backing up his Ultrasoft Money files can surely afford to pay for cutting edge technology...

I could not be more pleased with the MemPlug and PIT and I can't wait to see what rabbit comes out of the hat next, whether it is free or not.

Best Regards,

Steve Schwegler

__________________
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Posted by Gameboy70 on 06-05-2001 02:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dvIceT
I don't think we should blame PI Technology if we were self-deceived. We obviously are accustomed to the gratis nature of the Internet, but we have only ourselves to blame for assuming we can get everything for free. I bought the MemPlug, because it was and still is the premier removable memory card Springboard.

I was refering to those who bought the MemPlug on the basis of the PiDirect announcement, who should've been told from the first press release, at minimum, that pricing would be announced at a later date. I have absolutely no problem with PI charging for PiDirect, but leaving out such critical information is irresponsible at best, if not disingenuous. There's no self-deception.

quote:
For the vast majority of MemPlug purchasers, there is *no* bait-and-switch, de facto or otherwise, because the vast majority purchased it months before the official announcement of PiDirect within the last week or even the rumors of some beta-tested AutoCF-type MemPlug software in the last couple of weeks.

You're absolutely right, which is precisely why I wasn't talking about the impact on the vast majority. To reiterate, I was refering to those who purchased the MemPlug on the basis of the PiDirect announcement. Let's be clear about this: PI isn't evil; we're talking about a specific decision to leave pricing information out of a significant piece of software for a product that people are paying for. The honorable thing to do would be to inform people about pricing on the software, at least that there will be pricing. The fact that PI isn't evil, or even that PI is wonderful, doesn't make the company above criticism.

quote:
I think we would all be better off disabusing *ourselves* of the notion that every piece of software that comes down the pike should be completely free.

Irrelevant, as I've indicated above.

Posted by gbgood on 06-05-2001 03:31 AM:

I have to say that, I too, thought piDirect was an 'eventual' software function that was to be released as an upgrade.

I mean really, what good is just STORAGE? I believe everyone would have thought that piDirect was just a matter of time.

Now that I see there is to be an additional charge, I am disappointed but not discouraged. We are, afterall, early adopters, and used to getting the minimum, buggy, just out of beta software/hardware.

So far, I have been thrilled with the memplug and existing software. I look forward to the release of piDirect and hope it doesn't hurt $$$ too much.

MEANTIME....I'LL JUST BET YOU HAVEN'T TRIED THE NEWEST LAUNCHER III.
How do I know this? Because it's still BETA and I had to beg the developer for it after seeing the VC poster 'mike grant' bragging about having it.

So get this, you put programs from your ram into the MEMPLUG in a directory called palm/Launcher.

THAT's it, the icon appears in the main app screen and then when you select the program, it's copied from the card to ram. After you exit the app, it is deleted from ram.

AND it works like a charm. Dang Fast! No errors yet at all. Beware, still considered beta.

note: The difference is that piDirect will run apps 'direct' from the memplug as opposed to move,run,delete such as Launcher III.

Still, very very cool,

AND FREE !!!!

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