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-- Lawsuits and cameras everywhere one day? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=8954)

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Originally posted by MarkEagle
Does this mean that Hamlet was a lie, too?

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__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

bkbk, I concede that I am not familar with some of your quotes and literary references and that you're probably more read than I am on certain subjects. What I can say is that I have a LIFE, I suggest that you get one too.

Stop this nonsense. You would like others to believe that you are superior to the rest of us "humans", but I think you're just sad, lonely, and full of self-loathing. How else can someone have so much hatred towards a company just because they failed to deliver a product.

A normal person will be naturally disappointed by Innogear's failure, that's true and acceptable. However, normal people have other aspects in their lives: family, a significant other, and friends to enrich their lives so that this Innogear thing becomes just a minor annoyance. So bkbk, I'm sorry that you were so hurt by Innogear's fail deliverance of their product. If you think that doing this will fill the emptiness inside, well more power to ya. I think that there are more productive and positive projects that you can devote your energies to.

now on a lighter note: conspiracy theory #1
Consider this you guys: what if bkbk actually WORKS for Innogear? What better way to regain some support or at least sympathy than to have an raving idiot threatening to bring about the company's downfall. Before this thread was started, I saw nothing but Innogear bashing, now people are still saying that Innogear were at fault for not delivering, but the tone is a lot more sympathic and supportive in face of bkbk's threats. Now Innogear's the victim. Secret agent, bkbk? Hmmmmm...

[Edited by Fat_Man on 01-03-2001 at 12:52 AM]

__________________
Fat's

James,
It seems a number of the kids have been very much confused by the current title of this now-off-topic thread:

"Lawsuits and cameras everywhere one day?"

It's probably best if you can change it to...

"Cameras instead of lawsuits everywhere one day?"

...which is the likely outcome, and what I have advocated.

(I haven't checked the stats in Britain and Monaco on this, but I'd find the converse quite unlikely.)

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
James,
It seems a number of the kids ... [snip]

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quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
It's important, before I stop posting to this thread, to note that COMEDY IS AT THE BORDERLINE OF EVIL -- since the hallmark of comedy is lying:

"Take My Wife -- Please." (Henny Youngman)

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quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
And I should note, after nearly 4,000 views, and dozens of postings that many people still don't seem to get (and no one's actually stated) REAL DAMAGES INNOGEAR'S CAUSED TO EACH AND EVERY VISOR OWNER IS "DUPING THEM" INTO "NOT BUYING" THE 8MB FLASH MODULE MADE BY HANDSPRING ... ON THE "PROMISE" (LIE) THAT THERE IN FACT WAS A 2ND "MEMORY" MODULE (W/OTHER FEATURES) "IN THE WINGS." But likely hundreds if not thousands held back from expanding our memory on this "promise / lie."

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Originally posted by bkbk And once more, it's clear that the humans on this board (myself included) simply aren't up to the task of factoring millions / billions / trillions / quadrillions / quintillions of infinitesimal considerations into the laws that need to be in place -- WITHOUT BIAS, PREJUDICE, OR "LOOKING AT THE FUNNY SIDE", so we must move to A.I. expert computer systems to KEEP THE HUMANS HONEST AND ACCURATE.

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Originally posted by bkbk As I noted many postings ago, it is the CONSISTENCY OF INNOGEAR'S LIES THAT INSPIRES HATRED, QUITE PROPERLY AND NATURALLY. Not 1 mistake, or 2 -- but about a dozen, now. Pretty remarkable.

Sure, it's "cute" and "amusing" that there are presently no "laws" or "contracts" that "mandate" that Innogear and/or other companies function ethically ... but, if they don't function ethically, they only have themselves to blame when people who function on that supreme level (not on the base level of laws, which are virtually always BENEATH ethics, sadly) COME AFTER THEM FULL BORE.

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__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend

real life

Real life is composed of two things (I am sorry if "things" is too abstract for you. deal.); Absolutes and Greys. Absolutes are composed of things like physics, chemistry and medicine. For instance the physics of a water balloon falling off of a building; if the amount of water in the ballon + the speed of the balloon as it travels towards the earth excedes the integrity of the balloon it pops; that is an absolute. a+b=c if a is 1 and c is 4 then it would be fairly reasonable to assume b is 3. If your heart stops beating, blood will cease to flow to your brain and your brain will die. Absolutes can be supplimented with further absolutes. For instance pepper-spray is 99.99% effective because there is that .01% that dont have any kind of an adverse reaction.

When someone is dealing with absolutes the best plan is to use logic and common sense. IE if you happen to know that chlorine gas is poisonious and you also know that mixing amonia and bleach generates large amounts of chlorine gas AND you dont want to kill yourself; then using a bit of logic and common sense you might consider not mixing those chemicals together.

Which is about where we come up to Greys. Greys (short for grey areas)are composed of opinions, perceptions, feelings, beliefs, and the legal system to name a few. They have no relevence, importance, or value on the cosmic scale. IE If you dont like Lucky Charms the universe does not give a ****. The problem with greys is that they are made up things that people want. They are NOT made up of facts.
However the same guidlines of logic and common sense easily apply. With greys like the legal system they have a bit further in order to take into account intent and puree it though bueacracy. If someone wants a law it can not apply to an absolute. IE Laws enforcing speed limits for objects plumeting uncontrolable from great hights. Or laws against people dying when their hearts stop. Try getting someone to enforce laws against chemical reactions or physics. And in court your arguement would be that when you fired the gun at the victims head that local laws in effect prohibited explosive combustion reactions and strongly discoraged projectiles from moving fast enough to puncture skin. Sure I see that happening soon.

You can break the law but you cannot break the laws of physics. And if there arent any laws that apply you have not done anything wrong. I am not saying that the six pack not comming out makes me happy. But if a bird craps on my car in the park there are not laws against that but there are plenty against me shooting that bird. That doesnt mean that I am happy about my car getting crapped on. Likewise if there were accually some kind of unscrupulious business practices going on that the law applied to I am sure that I would be busy rounding up angry villagers with torches and farm impliments. But the absolute stands that the universe is not destroyed and the world is not over. Life goes on. Deal.


Sorry for the length. I had been waiting until the thread was moved to off topic discusion to continue contributing.

Bane
_______________________
Evil geniuses kick ass.

real life

Upon further consideration perhaps the problem that I am encountering is that I am trying and failing to relate Bkbk's opinions to events that apply to an absolute of some kind or something that applies to real life.

I tend to favor less laws in general. For goodness sake there are laws in many counties that prohibit farm animals from having sex on specific days of the week. The amount of useless laws is directly purportionate to the amount of laws not enforced.

[Edited by Bane on 01-18-2001 at 05:45 AM]

Re: real life

quote:

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Originally posted by Bane
Real life is composed of two things (I am sorry if "things" is too abstract for you. deal.); Absolutes and Greys.

[snip]

If you dont like Lucky Charms the universe does not give a ****.

[snip]

But if a bird craps on my car in the park there are not laws against that but there are plenty against me shooting that bird. That doesnt mean that I am happy about my car getting crapped on.

[snip]

Bane
_______________________
Evil geniuses kick ass.

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i've ignored this post for quite some time now (i think my last posted date should tell you how long) simply because i've delt with 'Raving' people in my everyday life. I usually just walk by them and smile if our eyes happen to meet, possibly toss a nickel in the cup, if they have one, just to Leave me alone. One thing i've gathered, is that if you just leave them be, and don't let it affect your life, you're much better off.

Hence, me disappearing from this thread. I didn't even READ it! Today I did. And I'm glad a few of you decided to go against my advice above. I was relieved to see that there were others who had my same morales and philosophies, and I was thoroughly entertained (some of you have a great sense of humour!) with some responses.

I'm not sure why I decided to post this, except to say,

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Thank-you

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quote:

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Deal.

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__________________
Ever feel like the train left while you were busy reading the paper?

Stealth-Mod.

James,
Read your recent:

"Pad your release dates. Users are a finicky bunch and will complain loudly and often if you continuously delay your products. My readers will hate me for suggesting this, but when announcing a product's release, add a few months if it won't be released for a while. Using quarters instead of exact months is also a good tactic. Then when you get closer to your release date, give another update. If you say you are releasing it during a particular month, don't wait until the last day of the month to post an update on your website. Your potential customers want updated information. If (and when) a delay is needed, say why. Let people know what is finished."
[I didn't <snip> any, because it was just all too good, too accurate, too apropos, I thought.]

Very good stuff.

And, ditto, most of the postings (esp. Bane's) since I last posted. Glad to see we're backing off a bit on the hostility.
As usual, not a lot of time to elaborate (I live a busy, rich life, not the "pathetic, lonely" one some idiot "speculated" [sorry if it was one of the last few posters -- but can you expect me to keep track of drivel like that?]), but I'll do what I can with the time I've got.

Bane, very good data re absolutes & "gray areas," etc. -- did you lift it from Rand, by any chance? I noted you didn't source anything. If it's all essentially "original," much the better. And I don't mean to be snide when I say continue along your path, and continue to hone. Also, didn't need so many examples, as they got a bit redundant. But that borders on being a[n established] sytle thing, so don't let it freak you.

Ugh, I feel the need for a lot of elaboration coming on; and I just got a page, so I've got to go quick.
1) AGAIN (OH, NO; MR. CAPS LOCK IS BACK!!!), HEY -- NO FOOLIN' FELLAS -- HOW DO YOU CUT IT OFF?

[See, being funny ... it's hard not to LIE. Really no time to go back for a number of Jim's examples -- but note that the PREMISE of the JOKE is the LIE / DECEPTION / EXPECTATION (on the part of the "aud.") that you are NOT deceiving them ... by "leaving out" the 3rd guy who did NOT "walk into the bar," for ex.
But HUMOR'S MORE COMPLEX than "just 1 method," I'LL ADMIT ... I believe my original point was simply to show that "NOT EVERY JOKE REVEALS A GREAT TRUTH" (or "wows us w/humanity," and I'll think of an ex. next time).]

1)a) What few people ever seem to realize (and I'll count Bane in, a bit unfairly, as I have no proof ALL of his "gray/b&w" thinking follows the examples he gave) about "gray/b&w" is that ... HOW GRAY something is ... is FAIRLY B&W.
Yeah, I'm hedging ... a tad, but only to cut you a bit of slack. It's PRETTY DAMN STRONG, USUALLY.
Like: "Most people who eat at 21 are wealthy" and
"Most at McD's CAN'T AFFORD (in a realistic budget)

Now, I've read that Bill Gates, III himself, actually eats at McD & BK, etc. ... sometimes. So this is not a 100% true "gray." But let's say it's 90% true.
IT'S B&W THAT IT'S ***NOT*** 50%.

Now, unlike Bane (who, again, for a handy ex. I'll use in my ex. -- but it's still a bit unfairly, as I have no proof ALL of his ... etc.), I realize YOU'RE WAITING FOR ME TO CONNECT THE PREVIOUS W/A RELEVANT, REAL-WORLD (and, nice if it pulled the Visor into the ex.) EX. YOU COULD CARE ABOUT.

But at least I've ack. that I owe you that, knowing I don't have a handy ex. right now (that's why I have to write a book, to say: "see P.47," where I cover that), and no time to type it if I did.
But I do apologize for it, for anyone who feels they need that.

2) Bane lumped a few wrong (I wanted to write "incorrect," to be more polite, but I knew it would take longer -- and now it has!) categories into his "b&w/gray" cites.
MEDICINE is INEXACT.
If it were BETTER, it's unlikely the hordes of peop. who follow alternative med. would.
MED. is quite "the guinea pig" (that's us, folks) sci.
And, frankly doctors, that ticks me off.

I try to ...
LET ME POST NOW, BECAUSE I'M ON A SHAKY PC, AND WORRIED I'LL LOSE MY TEXT.

... as I was saying -- before someone rudely interrupted me.
(Again, quickly -- the gag is that IT WAS ME "who rudely interrupted me"; and doubly preposterous that a person wouldn't have the self-awareness to see and know that even before in fact uttering the statement.)

You see how you tend to lose the joke when you do a lengthy elaboration of it, though ...?

Hmmmmm ... "Brevity is the soul of ...???"
(I'll address the erroneous assumption(s) made on the attacks re that stmt. another time.)

2) Oh ... man ....
... now I've really lost track of my next point ...
... and, funnily enough -- I'm way off-topic, even w/in my own off-topic post ... right in the off-topic forum! (Isn't this one of the events Doc Brown said would cause the universe to collapse in on itself?)

Oh -- quickly:
Another err. "gray/b&w" point made was unlike, sci., math, etc. -- human affairs are not "b&w" (or something, right?). THIS WAS THE (SERIOUSLY WRONG) VIEW BEFORE DR. PECK CAME ALONG. (As I noted, almost everybody rips him off now; no one gives him credit.)
INSTEAD OF GIVE EXAMPLES, I'll invite you to tune into the radio show I cover below ... and MARVEL and JUST HOW OFTEN the SAME CAUSES AND SOLUTIONS come up AGAIN AND AGAIN.
Once more, maybe not 100%; maybe "only" 98.5% ... but certainly NOT 4.67%.
NOT NOW, NOT EVER.
NEVER WAS, NEVER WILL BE.

3) Ok, gotta go. Just wanted to do a second on A.I. Guys, get hip; you gotta figure if someone as "somewhat" educ. as I touches on a topic, but doesn't elab. -- there's a good likelihood it's a landmine.
A.I. systems YEARS AGO, for ex., overtook pro mechanics at diagnosing cars, like 90% to 85%. It's probably even more disparate now.
I'll grant you the law's a bit more complex (BUT CRIMES, SOCIAL INJUSTICE, ETC. WILL DROP TO ALMOST NIL WHEN PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE ON TAPE -- IT'S JUST TOO STUPID TO COMMIT A CRIME [OR EVEN FAUX PAS] THEN), but I could swear I read similar stats on that since then, too.
Like in digial logic:
Every little facet of any court case comes down to a Yes/No decision -- even if there are 7,654 of them ... and we trust a human "judge" to "balance them out in his head" ... w/out tainting them w/his own prejudices (yeah, right).

The things I have in mind for chips to do in the future, human judges can't even dream of approaching; the # of considerations at ever step is just too staggering. Maybe I can detail some next time. They're nothing obtuse, and you'll get the gist right away -- it's just that it can't be done yet, though easily conceived.
Lastly: INCREMENTING.
The sickos presently "on the bench" (as the legalese jokers call it) simply CANNOT COUNT.
COUNT WHAT?
# OF TIMES MINORITES ARE UNFAIRLY STOPPED;
# OF TIMES YOUNG WOMEN ARE FORCED TO STRIP TO THEIR PANTIES ON NEW YEAR'S EVE BY COPS AND FORCED TO WALK HOME IN THE FREEZING COLD;
# OF TIMES IN THIS JURISDICTION;
# OF COPS INVOLVED;
# OF CORRUPT JUDGES ON THE BENCH AT THAT TIME;
# OF TIMES SENTENCE GIVEN FOR THIS WAS 60 YRS.; # OF TIMES IT WAS 6 YRS.;

... blah, blah, blah -- gotta go, gents; I am outta here. Let me leave you w/this, which I wrote earlier; enjoy:

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|

I REALLY WANT TO GET THIS POINT ACROSS TO YOU GUYS, THOUGH.
I'VE RECENTLY DISCOVERED ADAM COROLLA AND "DR. DREW" ON THE "LOVE-LINE" SHOW THAT RUNS IN MY CITY FROM 3AM TO 5AM DAILY. (I ... guess you can ... "set your VCR to tape it? ..." if you're not up at that time. We torch the clock nightly here, though, so it's pretty likely we'll be up for this.)
I WHOLEHEARTEDLY RECOMMEND THIS SHOW.
BOTH FOR "DR. DREW'S SERIOUS MED. ADVICE" -- AND COROLLA'S RASPY PATTER (stole that from G. Lucas' original script's description of Wolfman Jack in "American Confetti" -- see, I'm funny, huh? [When I was a kid, they were handing out looks; I thought they said books -- said "gimmie a funny ..." blah, blah, blah.] Cause I LIED, again. "Graffiti," of course. OKAY, I PROMISE to STOP making that same pt. again & again -- if you promise "it took."]).
SURE IT'S ON CABLE, AND A.C.'S GOT "THE MAN SHOW" (which I've never seen, come to think of it), BUT I FELT A STRONG NEED TO PUT THIS OUT THERE FOR YOU YOUNG GUYS WHO ***JUST AREN'T*** GONNA READ "T.R.T.L." OR "P.O.T.L." ANYTIME SOON (as the late great Steve Allen used to say of the classics: "Go back and try 'em again every decade or so," they'll wait for you [that's my paraphrase, BTW]) -- THIS IS SOMETHING ENTERTAINING YOU CAN PULL IN NIGHTLY THAT YOU CAN REALLY LEARN A GREAT DEAL OF PRETTY_IMPORTANT_STUFF (i THINK MOST OF YOU WILL AGREE) AND'S A RIOT ON TOP OF THAT!

EVEN ADAM'S BECOMING QUITE THE SERIOUS DIAGNOSER, WHEN HE CAN PREVENT HIMSELF FROM FARTING INTO THE MIKE EVERY FEW COMMERCIAL BREAKS. (Hey -- farting; now THERE'S meaning! Though it's not quite a "sign of humanity;" unless you count the SERIOUS wind my old dog used to break from time to time.)

BUT:
==========
WARNING!
WARNING!
WARNING!
==========
IT'S ***NOT*** FOR THE "SQUEAMISH" OR "EASILY OFFENDED" -- AND WILL QUICKLY PUT HAIR ON YOUR CHEST IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT ANY NOW. (Oop; there's one of dem jokes again; let me not comment.)

Damn, that's about the longest posting of complete nonsense I have ever have the displeasure of reading. I think this surpass even the rantings of InventorB.

__________________
Fat's

Oh, come now. It isn't that bad.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

quote:

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Originally posted by Fat_Man
I think this surpass even the rantings of InventorB.

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__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Good point.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
--clipped--
3) Ok, gotta go. Just wanted to do a second on A.I. Guys, get hip; you gotta figure if someone as "somewhat" educ. as I touches on a topic, but doesn't elab. -- there's a good likelihood it's a landmine.
A.I. systems YEARS AGO, for ex., overtook pro mechanics at diagnosing cars, like 90% to 85%. It's probably even more disparate now.
I'll grant you the law's a bit more complex (BUT CRIMES, SOCIAL INJUSTICE, ETC. WILL DROP TO ALMOST NIL WHEN PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE ON TAPE -- IT'S JUST TOO STUPID TO COMMIT A CRIME [OR EVEN FAUX PAS] THEN), but I could swear I read similar stats on that since then, too.
--clipped--

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__________________
exit, pursued by a bear.

BTW, Glad you liked my article. Thanks.

quote:

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Originally posted by bkbk
The things I have in mind for chips to do in the future, human judges can't even dream of approaching; the # of considerations at ever step is just too staggering. Maybe I can detail some next time. They're nothing obtuse, and you'll get the gist right away -- it's just that it can't be done yet, though easily conceived.

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__________________
James Hromadka
Old Friend

quote:

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Originally posted by JHromadka
I might get a judge that goes easy on me for a speeding ticket, but I can forsee an AI judge that gives me the maximum fine to maximize the profits for the district.

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__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

quote:

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Originally posted by JHromadka
BTW, Glad you liked my article. Thanks.
<snip> AI is nowhere near <snip>. Just like <snip> checks and balances, so should <snip> AI project. <snip> Star Trek:TNG episode <snip> AI war system that fought anyone <snip> led to the civilization's destruction.
I like <snip> judges instead of machines. I might get a judge that goes easy on me <snip> AI judge <snip> maximum fine <snip>.
There is no way that you can have AI judges until <snip>, and even then I wouldn't want them. <snip> You can't tell with an email if someone is lying, but you sure can when they're talking to you in person. Can AI tell if I'm lying? Lie detectors are fallable -- so will AI Judges.

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Originally posted by matty
2) re: above clip -- if it's going to be such a deterrent, how do you explain the sheer volume of television shows like cops, real stories of the highway patrol, real-life crime videos and the like? these have been on for enough time for americans to realize crime is being taped (especially in convenience stores and the like), and yet it keeps on going. enough for a new "reality video" show to crop up evry season or so.
[/B]

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