VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor & Deluxe (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1)
-- Falling out of love with the Visor? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=964)

I'd guess that Palm users have about the same number of problems as Visor users. But Visor users are probably more technical and experienced Palm users and experiment with more things and, therefore, also experience more problems.

As to USB, it is new and USB, in general still has some problems on some PCs and OSs. It Palms had USB, I'd guess that they would have the same issues to work thru.

As to serial, my Visor and my coworker's Visor had the exact same issues that every Palm user in my office had when they tried to get their Palm Pro, III, V up and running. No that it's up, it's fine.

As to IR, this is basically a big experiment, since it is not really supported on Palms or Visors except with 3rd party applications. I got it working with IR and even then I HAD to monkey around with it until I broke everything and had to reset everything. If I don't play with it, it runs fine.

Many of the other Visor problems seem to be caused by messing around with Hacks and other apps. This sometimes causes conflicts that would probably occur on Palms, too.

Also, I'd bet that if you looked at the percentages, you'd find that Visor users tend to be more technical power users compared to that average Palm user (not to say that Palm users can't be as sophisticated, just that Palms are still much more mainstream than Visors).

Most Visor users are on the internet, where we are free to complain to the whole web, wereas Palm users bought theirs in the store and when they have a problem, they call USR or take it back to the store for a swap.

...and there are complaints because of the time lag for a swap from Handspring, where Palm can often be returned/replaced at the store of purchase.

I'll bet that percentage wise, roughly the same amount of Palm users and Visor users are disgruntled.

I got Ir to work on my IBM laptop running Win 95, but I had to upgrade a few drivers and do a minor regedit to get the COM ports correct. On my desktop with Win 98 I had no problems with USB. It installed perfectly the first time, but then I built the sucker from the ground up.

------------------

Hey Ken,
I'm one of the guys that had the problems with USB syncing... I tried soft reset, reinstalls, even posted here and nothing seemed to work. I finally gave customer support a call and low and behold I got a hold of someone and they walked me through a fix for my system - Win98 - that worked! It seemed the installation was screwy. I have to give Handspring a lot of credit for the quick help - I waited for about two minutes, granted it was 8:30am EST! My advice - go for it - there may be some problems, but once solved - they are well worth it!

I am totally new to PDAs/Handhelds - after much online research, I opted for the Visor Deluxe (Ice) - USB cradle. Ordered 1/10 online, received e-mail confirmation of order w/i one hour, received Visor 1/17.

I purchased a 4-port USB hub, plugged it in, set up the Palm Desktop software, plugged in the USB sync cradle, entered some test data, sync-ed. And....

It worked! trouble-free, and now I'm in the learning curve of things. But, my point is that often, we tend to post to these boards because we need help, not quite so often is it to report that things worked as they're supposed to.

I have found these boards to be an incredible source of information: pros and cons, tips, and tech assistance from those who have been down the path we find ourselves stuck on.

BTW - I chose the USB setup to avoid any potential serial port/IRQ conflicts. And, I purchased the USB hub because one port is already in use, and who knows what else I might want to add down the road?

So far, so good on the VISOR and Hotsync.

Lynne

I visited CNET today. The latest �opinion� from a Visor customer was pretty harsh. But I must admit, there were a lot of positive comments, too. I�m sure I�ll just take the plunge and order the silly thing. Then again, what if �

I feel like George Jetson � �Jane, stop this crazy thing!�

ok heres my take on it
I've had my visor since early january and I've had problems with the 8meg module (see other threads) and a few problems synching through USB
but I have found work arounds to all of them...
(for my usb if the visor doesnt synch within 4 seconds I cancel (from the visor) and under controlpanels/system/devices I refresh the device list (win98 osr2)
after a few refreshes I can normally synch
as to why this is happening? I assume its because on my machine (I built it) its a dual p-pro but the mboard was made just as USB was being released.. so my USB is actually an add-in to the mboard (no not a pci usb card.. my mboard had the connectors but no usb sockets) USB 1.0
and as to the usb zip drive.. I couldnt get a usb zipdrive to work reliably with my sony vaio pcg-c1 either.. which had USB 1.0 while most devices now are USB 1.1 (including the zipdrive and I'm assuming the visor as well)
so if you've had problems with your zipdrive you may end up having the same problems I am..
in the end, the trouble I go through synching (refresh refresh refresh) is still worth it to me... I love my visor and have found it gives my screwey life some order
but you may want to order the serial cradle.. I'm kicking myself for not ordering one.. it would have been a hellova lot easier for my daily synchs (and save the usb for big files hehe mp3s)

I have been using USB at home and serial at work and never had a single problem with Hot Synch. No resets at all. I am still looknig for a good way to coordinate my e-mail with Groupwise at work but other than that very smooth.

------------------

Ken

Stop agonizing! You're going to hurt yourself. I mess around with my Visor all the time (one of those power users). I have only had to soft reset once since Thanksgiving. If you don't mess with hacks and such, you will probably never have to reset. My Visor is the most stable computer I've ever had or worked with. My VCR gives me more trouble. If you don't want to have the chance of ever having trouble with whatever you use for keeping track of things, use a paper day-timer. The Visor is just a very powerful organizer. It is well worth the money that is charged for it, and it is currently the hands down winner in the bang for the buck, the ease of use, and the reliability departments. If that is what you want, go for it!

Toolkit:
You only want the file 'SerIRComLib.prc' until Handspring gets the chance to get a version of EnhancedIR out for the Visor.

Ken:
I'm using Win98 for the majority of my syncing at the moment. (I am in the process of getting it all configured under Linux.)

I don't agree with the idea of "Aw shucks, Handspring is a good company, so let's overlook the glaring problems with the Visor.."

Come on! The engineers at Handspring have had AMPLE time to test and re-test these machines before releasing them to the public. Didn't Palm release 5 handhelds with few problems? In reality, with all the problems these devices have had, they really should be labeled as: Visor Deluxe .9 beta

In my business, you screw up like this and pretty soon you will have no customers, no product, and no profit.

I've had zero (zero) problem with USB synching (Win'98),
even if I've pretty much tormented my visor
with all sort of system hacks, under- and
over- clocking, backupbuddy's etc.
So far, the Visor is a great device, I can
only complain on the stylus (get a better
one, or use a screen protector), other than
that it's a terrific machine at a bargain price.

And, I don't buy the "maybe Windows work
better with Windows CE" argument: if (if) there
are problems with USB synch, it's because
of bad implementations in Windows: so
for this reason you should be stuck with
that bad family of technologies....? Doesn't
that sound like a sad vicious circle?

Note I don't even buy the "everything other
than Microsoft is good"; apart from ethics
consideration for which I might like better
one company rather than others, my final
judgement on a product is only the technical
quality; Microsoft has done some bad products, but also some nice products.
As far as the Visor is concerned, well, it's
damn good.

-MM

I received my IVD the end of Nov. and synch using USB. I've installed programs, taken programs off, hotsynch everyday and have never had a problem. I have yet to do a soft or hard reset. I wish PC's were this easy!

G-man � that�s what I�ve been trying to say all along. It SEEMS to me that there are some *major* glitches with the Visor (again, take a tour of the Troubleshooting forum, but take along some Kleenex). Like I asked in my first thread, has Handspring either acknowledged or solved these problems? No one has answered that question.

I�m not trying to be a pessimist. (I�d like to think of myself a realist!). The praises in this thread ARE encouraging. I�m a little more inclined to take the risk and buy one.

I appreciate what LynnBob wrote under the �What to call Handspring Visor User Groups� thread. LynnBob suggested calling the group �"The Cock-eyed Optimists" or "The Suckers" ... depending on who one listens to.�

Very funny, LynnBob. I laughed out loud.


[This message has been edited by Ken (edited 01-23-2000).]

Ken in regards to G-man's comment:

The only fault with the Visor I've seen that people are saying, 'they are new, cut them some slack', is the shipping problems, which seem to be a thing of the past.

As far as software incompatibilities, G-man is smoking something if he thinks that the people at Palm went from the original Pilot to the Palm Vx without any software compatibility issues. The incompatibilities stem from programmers using work-arounds and holes in the PalmOS API to get things done faster (or to get them done at all in some cases), or from the fact that this is the FIRST Palm device to use the second memory bank, meaning that some apps which were written without taking that part of the spec (which has been there from day 1)into account, cannot access the 8MB Flash module properly. These issues will be fixed.

As far as the USB syncing issues, they are likely caused by system configuration issues, more often than Visor or cradle problems.

What about L3V3L1�s complaint under the How To / Troubleshooting forum? Or Tyler�s on-going �Design flaw?� discussion in this forum? I don�t think these problems stem from system configuration issues or from programmers using work-arounds and holes. Granted, my initial worries centered around hotsynching. But what L3V3L1 and Tyler are talking about has more to do with � well, design flaws! Is this thing cheaply built or what? Are *all* these guys smoking something?

There�s a part of me that *really* wants to hear from Handspring. Are they at least addressing these concerns? I know they�re working hard to improve shipping, but if they�re shipping junk, why even bother? I say, Take all the time you need shipping me my Visor (BTW - I have not ordered it yet), just please ship me a quality product - one in which the buttons don�t wear down and the case doesn�t show signs of stress after only one months use!!!!!!!

I know it's not up to all of you to convince me. It's just frustrating, that's all. I don't even own the darn thing and already I have a love / hate relationship with it!

Maybe I will just stick with my Daytimer and abacus.

Hey Ken,

Thanks for laughing at my post...although...it's sad that there's so much truth in it...

You're right about hearing from Handspring...they lurk and lurk...but never show themselves. Many of the issues we all are concerned about...could be resolved if the lines of communication were better. And, by the way, I've had my visor for three weeks...nothing's gone wrong...and I still have a love-hate relationship with it 'cause I'm afraid in six months...I'll feel like a sucker...

I love my Visor, fortunately my wife is understanding...

Initially I had a problem syncing (USB). Restarting my desktop computer (Mac PB G3w OS8.6) solved the problem. Since then I have not had a problem getting my Visor to hotsync.

BUT, beware of shareware. I have had several .prc and .pdb files that turned out to be corrupt and caused problems. After syncing I would get a FATAL EXCEPTION error and have to restart. So, like with sax, choose your partners carefully, and always remain faithful to your main squeeze... Visor I love you!

27 days of Visor use and counting... and VERY happy.

------------------
Walter


BlackLightning's cool laser printer iron-on Transfer Toners
& Flash Magazine [email protected] or 1-800-252-2599

Check out the Ordering / Shipping forum. Poor gohorns � waited five weeks and ended up with a deadbeat Visor. DOA. No thanks. I�ve made up my mind � I�m going with the Palm IIIx. I guess I�m just not the cocked-eyed optimist.

LynnBob � good luck. I hope your crusade � Hey Handspring, I�m calling you out! Chicken? - brings about some positive results.

Handspring � I really hope you guys make it. Maybe I�ll check back in a year or so.

reply to theo:

I'm not saying that Palm/3Com didn't have problems with software or hardware. What I am saying is that the Visor as it was released, was NOT a finished product. The Pilots were inchoate products with problems to match, but anything above the III series has been hardware-wise flawless. Of course, you would expect dud units to slip through, but the vast experience of Visor users suggest that Handspring put out a "defective" product, and just like car manufacturers, they should perform a recall on the majority of these units.

The Visor is a 3rd or 4th generation Palm unit. Handspring has had time to perfect the product, and not use good Americans as their test subjects (victims?). In their eagerness to put out their product out before Christmas, they doomed thousands of people to miserable experiences with their Visors.

I looked in the How To / Troubleshooting section and most of the recent posts were how to issues. Yes there were some problems, but most of those were caused by 3rd party software or dropping the Visor.

Where is this "vast experience of Visor users suggest that Handspring put out a defective product"? When we did a poll on Visor owners that used to have Palm organizers, over 80% said that they liked the Visor more than the Palm. That doesn't sound like a "vast" number of users with problems.

As I have said, don't misconstrue seeing users with problems as something that points to a larger issue.

When the Palm V came out, there was an issue where the up button could be pressed continuously when in the case, causing battery drainage and problems with alarms. Every PalmOS update has had some incompatibility problems with a few apps.

If you look at the SIL here at VisorCentral you will see a list of some apps with problems. There are not many apps listed, and most of the problems are isolated events. Remember that there are thousands of PalmOS apps that run fine on the Visor.

If I remember, I'll try to have our next poll be on any problems with the Visor.

------------------
James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com