VisorCentral.com - Poll: Your Favorite Screen Protector

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Accessories (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=3)
-- Poll: Your Favorite Screen Protector (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=7820)

Posted by Inventorb on 09-22-2000 12:49 AM:

VINYL
1. Depending on the exact compounds that are in a specific vinyl the following can occur within weeks. A black spot, or hot spot will start to form. This will eventually
burn your LCD up. This occurrence changes the molecular structure that is so common in all LCD and the like.

2. The information that you are requesting is a significant change. The legal wording is being prepared as we speak. When I receive and sign the documents I will fully inform your readers. I guarantee the industry will be amazed at the changes. For all you entrepreneurs get ready to make some money.

Thank You
Inventor

__________________

http://www.vsps.com/

Posted by ToolkiT on 09-22-2000 12:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Gameboy70
Here's an honest, non-flamebait question: Are screen protectors, with or without Warman's provocations, really that interesting to merit so many threads and posts?

[personal mode]
IMHO: No.... it is a good thing they are out there but the ammount of attention they get is does not match it's importance... Personally I think a good stylus is a lot more important...

But there are people out there that feel different and they also have the right to speak out their mind (within reason off course..)
[/personal mode]

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Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Posted by markr13 on 09-22-2000 02:01 AM:

Vinyl Polymer is NOT Harmful

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vinyl:
Please use caution while using "Vinyl" Some of the vinyl are made with a lot of junk. This will damage your Electronic Instrument. For instance a High Sulfur content will damage your instrument over time. The damage will occur by magnetic forces and cause a black out in a certain area. The response will be from negative and positive electrons clashing. Read Sir J.J. Thompson theories in the late 1800s they
come into play.

Thank You
Inventor
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't let this nonsense go unchallenged. Bill is not a scientist nor should he play one on the discussion boards.

1. Vinyl (actually polyvinylchloride) is not made nor compounded with sulfur. This would cause discoloration.

2. There are no magnetic forces in polymer films. Magnetism relies on ferromagnetic (i.e. iron/cobalt) materials. These are not present unless deliberately added. Copier toners, for example, may contain iron particles since magnets are used in some cases to control how the toner is placed on the paper.

3. Negative and positive electrons??? Wouldn't these just annihilate each other? Positive electrons (positrons) are produced in particle accelerators in places such as Brookhaven Laboratories or are the result of radioactive decay. I certainly hope our screens are not radioactive! I also strongly doubt that Sir J.J. Thompson in the late 1880's even knew of any of this.

BTW: My credentials are that I have a Ph.D. in organic chemistry and have been a product development scientist for over 20 years in industry.

Posted by Arker on 09-22-2000 02:15 AM:

/ignore InventorB

Posted by Toby on 09-22-2000 02:57 PM:

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it...

Posted by Inventorb on 09-22-2000 06:29 PM:

Re: Vinyl Polymer is NOT Harmful

quote:
Originally posted by markr13
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vinyl:
Please use caution while using "Vinyl" Some of the vinyl are made with a lot of junk. This will damage your Electronic Instrument. For instance a High Sulfur content will damage your instrument over time. The damage will occur by magnetic forces and cause a black out in a certain area. The response will be from negative and positive electrons clashing. Read Sir J.J. Thompson theories in the late 1800s they
come into play.

Thank You
Inventor
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't let this nonsense go unchallenged. Bill is not a scientist nor should he play one on the discussion boards.

1. Vinyl (actually polyvinylchloride) is not made nor compounded with sulfur. This would cause discoloration.

2. There are no magnetic forces in polymer films. Magnetism relies on ferromagnetic (i.e. iron/cobalt) materials. These are not present unless deliberately added. Copier toners, for example, may contain iron particles since magnets are used in some cases to control how the toner is placed on the paper.

3. Negative and positive electrons??? Wouldn't these just annihilate each other? Positive electrons (positrons) are produced in particle accelerators in places such as Brookhaven Laboratories or are the result of radioactive decay. I certainly hope our screens are not radioactive! I also strongly doubt that Sir J.J. Thompson in the late 1880's even knew of any of this.

BTW: My credentials are that I have a Ph.D. in organic chemistry and have been a product development scientist for over 20 years in industry.

Mr. "Ph.D"

Your product deserves more time. You should devote more time to your own product. But if you must reply. Then at least do your research first. This error makes your credibility look bad. When you own the documents that I have earn then you can be the expert in that field. Until then I am the expert in mine.

Reality Hurts so I know you will come back with some ridiculous response.

Thank You
Inventor

__________________

http://www.vsps.com/

Posted by Danchez on 09-22-2000 07:41 PM:

Re: Vinyl Polymer is NOT Harmful

quote:
Originally posted by Inventorb
When you own the documents that I have earn then you can be the expert in that field. Until then I am the expert in mine.

Could you point out to us the statements that markr13 made that are untrue. Have any websites that have published facts to support the statements you made and prove markr13 untrue?

I find this very interesting because I have not had anything happen like what you described to my Visor and I have been using vinyl since I purchased mine. I also have not read anything anywhere saying anything remotely close to what you have said would happen.

__________________
Dan Sanchez
<A HREF="http://www.dca-services.com">DCA Services</A>

Posted by John Nowak on 09-22-2000 09:08 PM:

Re: Re: Vinyl Polymer is NOT Harmful

quote:
Originally posted by Inventorb

This error makes your credibility look bad.

Oh, gee, who to trust, who to trust...hmm. I think I trust the guy who writes English at the High School level and pointed out your claim that vinyl contained antimatter.

Posted by MPM on 09-22-2000 09:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Arker
/ignore InventorB

I ignore InventorB, but I do not like the fact that he has repeatedly 'taken over' every discussion thread on this board that talks about screen protectors. As soon as the current thread gets closed because of InventorB's flame-bait (like his above response to markr13) he jumps to the next thread about screen protectors and gets that one closed too. I would really like to see a screen protector thread stay on-topic and not be disrupted by the flame-bait actions of a single individual (with or without multiple personalities).

I suggest to the Visor Central moderators that InventorB (and his other personalities) should be banned from posting on the Visor Central discussion boards. He has proven himself to be very disruptive to these discussion boards. If that seems too harsh, then maybe limiting him to only posting to the Off Topic board would work. That way his posts will not disrupt the main focus of the rest of the boards - that is to peacefully discuss everything and anything about the Visor - including screen protectors.

My $0.02.

Posted by John Nowak on 09-22-2000 09:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MPM

I suggest to the Visor Central moderators that InventorB (and his other personalities) should be banned from posting on the Visor Central discussion boards.

I tend to agree -- he's unable to behave, and he's proven it repeatedly.

Posted by Hoser_back_home on 09-22-2000 09:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MPM
[BI suggest to the Visor Central moderators that InventorB (and his other personalities) should be banned from posting on the Visor Central discussion boards. He has proven himself to be very disruptive to these discussion boards. If that seems too harsh, then maybe limiting him to only posting to the Off Topic board would work. That way his posts will not disrupt the main focus of the rest of the boards - that is to peacefully discuss everything and anything about the Visor - including screen protectors.
[/B]

While i'm not sure at the possibilities behind your suggestion of banning or selective posting (i'd have to leave that to Marcus and James) may I suggest another alternative?

Continue your discussions about screen protectors and simply don't read and especially don't respond to anything that somebody posts that you don't agree with?

(Brings back memories of my mom telling me to just pretend like they're not there and they'll just realize that it's boring to talk to themselves, and leave.)

I know of many on this board that are able to accomplish this feat of 'selective reading' and not responding. I think this is the best method of resolving this issue as it still allows others to discuss the topic at hand.
(make a pact with yourself to NEVER respond to a certain individual's posts....NO MATTER WHAT is posted). I think you'll be surprised at how much power you all, collectively, can have over others on this board. It just hasn't seemed to be used yet.

With that said, let's contine the topic of screen protectors....

__________________
Ever feel like the train left while you were busy reading the paper?

Stealth-Mod.

Posted by Inventorb on 09-23-2000 02:44 AM:

Re: Re: Vinyl Polymer is NOT Harmful

quote:
Originally posted by Danchez
quote:
Originally posted by Inventorb
When you own the documents that I have earn then you can be the expert in that field. Until then I am the expert in mine.

Could you point out to us the statements that markr13 made that are untrue. Have any websites that have published facts to support the statements you made and prove markr13 untrue?

I find this very interesting because I have not had anything happen like what you described to my Visor and I have been using vinyl since I purchased mine. I also have not read anything anywhere saying anything remotely close to what you have said would happen.

I have the proof, I have the documents, I have the Instrument that was tested and
failed, and I am the expert not Mark13.

Thank You
Inventor

__________________

http://www.vsps.com/

Posted by Danchez on 09-23-2000 02:55 AM:

*thud*

__________________
Dan Sanchez
<A HREF="http://www.dca-services.com">DCA Services</A>

Posted by drturay on 09-23-2000 03:49 AM:

I could care less about anything else, but he's DR. "PhD" to you. Not Mr. "PhD". Show some respect man!
On the topic of screen protectors, I have yet to use one and I write all day on my screen. Just think, if you take off your screen protector now and work really hard at scratching it, by the time the screen is unreadable, the new visors will be out. What a great excuse to get the new visor..."but honey, my screen's all scratched up". Tongue firmly planted in cheek.
-DR. Turay

Posted by MelHerd on 09-23-2000 04:58 AM:

Re: Re: Vinyl Polymer is NOT Harmful

Inventorb-
He's right - Read any polymer books.
Quoting research done in the 1800's to support your opinion is not the best way to build credibility.

Another Ph.D. in Organic Chem.

I can't let this nonsense go unchallenged. Bill is not a scientist nor should he play one on the discussion boards.

1. Vinyl (actually polyvinylchloride) is not made nor compounded with sulfur. This would cause discoloration.

2. There are no magnetic forces in polymer films. Magnetism relies on ferromagnetic (i.e. iron/cobalt) materials. These are not present unless deliberately added. Copier toners, for example, may contain iron particles since magnets are used in some cases to control how the toner is placed on the paper.

3. Negative and positive electrons??? Wouldn't these just annihilate each other? Positive electrons (positrons) are produced in particle accelerators in places such as Brookhaven Laboratories or are the result of radioactive decay. I certainly hope our screens are not radioactive! I also strongly doubt that Sir J.J. Thompson in the late 1880's even knew of any of this.

BTW: My credentials are that I have a Ph.D. in organic chemistry and have been a product development scientist for over 20 years in industry.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Mr. "Ph.D"

Your product deserves more time. You should devote more time to your own product. But if you must reply. Then at least do your research first. This error makes your credibility look bad. When you own the documents that I have earn then you can be the expert in that field. Until then I am the expert in mine.

Reality Hurts so I know you will come back with some ridiculous response.

Thank You
Inventor [/B][/QUOTE]

[Edited by MelHerd on 09-23-2000 at 12:01 AM]

__________________
GreyWolf

Posted by linguas on 09-23-2000 11:50 AM:

Markr13,

Thanks for stepping in and posting some concrete facts! It's good to hear from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. (whew! and here I was all worried about the "battle of the electrons" taking place on my Visor screen )

__________________
Eschew obfuscation!

Posted by MelHerd on 09-23-2000 05:21 PM:

My concerns about DIY protectors would be any plastic additives in the plastic used for screen protection. These additives could migrated to the LCD plastic screen and change (read damage) the plastic. The most common ones that I would worry about would be plasticizers - used to make the plastic soft and plyable. I do not believe that vinyl has plasticizers (or any additives for that matter). Most clear plastics tend to not have additives as the additives may affect the clarity of the plastic. So if the plastic used as a screen protector is clear - chances are it's ok to put on your screen.

Adhesives may also have volitile materials in them that could affect the LCD plastic. Any thing that you spray on the vinyl to help it cling could also affect the plastic - water based products are the way to go as they would have little or no affect on the plastic. If anybody uses DIY screen protectors with sprays or adhesives - please post how well it worked and how long it has been on your screen. Effects on the LCD screen would take months or longer to be visible.

A little patent education for everybody - anyone holding a patent must force (with legal action if necessary) anyone infringing on the patent to stop manufacturing/selling. Therefore the longer Nuwrite and Writerite continue selling/manufacturing screen protectors the more difficult it would be for the patent holder get the courts to stop the selling/manufacturing. In other words - a patent holder must aggressively force people to stop infringing on the patent. Since I have not seen any action against these companies, and as time goes on - the patents become more unenforceable. I currently purchase Writerites - I like the feel of the stylus against the plastic. Would like it to be clearer but a good trade off for me.

__________________
GreyWolf

Posted by markr13 on 09-23-2000 09:33 PM:

The Facts Behind PVC (Vinyl) Polymer

quote:
Originally posted by MelHerd
My concerns about DIY protectors would be any plastic additives in the plastic used for screen protection. These additives could migrated to the LCD plastic screen and change (read damage) the plastic. The most common ones that I would worry about would be plasticizers - used to make the plastic soft and pliable. I do not believe that vinyl has plasticizers (or any additives for that matter). Most clear plastics tend to not have additives as the additives may affect the clarity of the plastic. So if the plastic used as a screen protector is clear - chances are it's ok to put on your screen.

Adhesives may also have volatile materials in them that could affect the LCD plastic. Any thing that you spray on the vinyl to help it cling could also affect the plastic - water based products are the way to go as they would have little or no affect on the plastic. If anybody uses DIY screen protectors with sprays or adhesives - please post how well it worked and how long it has been on your screen. Effects on the LCD screen would take months or longer to be visible.

OK, there seems to be a bit of misconception about "vinyl" screen protectors and how they may affect your device, so here goes...

PVC is a very inexpensive plastic that is almost useless in its native version. To make it work as a plastic for commerce, it must contain numerous additives to function correctly. These range from thermal stabilizers (this polymer chars readily when molded without them), processing aids, impact modifiers, flow aids, plasticizers and others. There are two basic flavors of PVC, rigid and flexible. The rigid variety is used for structural applications such as PVC siding and need not concern this group. The type we encounter on auto dashboards, covers for furniture, books and, yes, screen protectors is the flexible type. The main reason it can be made flexible is by adding phthalate plasticizers which are high boiling, oil like materials. The plasticizers reduce polymer crystallinity and improve, not decrease, clarity. Interestingly enough, olefin polymers (polyethylene -- food wrap) could also be used, are flexible on their own, but they all have significant crystallinity and would cause unacceptable haze unless they are a special copolymer to prevent this.

Do plasticizers migrate? Yes, they do, in small quantities. This is a major concern in the case of hospital infusion bags which are made from flexible PVC and you may have seen this in recent news reports. Some phthalate plasticizers have been linked with cancer in animals so this concern is a valid one. Will it cause damage to your PDA screen? I have never seen nor heard of any such damage. WriteRights (made from PVC and adhesive) have been produced since 1994 and I have never heard anyone comment on screen damage. Nor have any of the other manufacturers of vinyl screen protectors (PilotRight, VSPS) have any problems reported from this. It seems a very unlikely event. Even if some migration occurred and caused softening of the plastic outer layer of the screen, periodic removal and cleaning would probably mitigate this.

Posted by jeff318 on 09-24-2000 12:54 AM:

I remember James saying something about all topics related to warman's protectors wwould be deleted.

Also, Bill, you need to enclose the URL of the image in your signature with

quote:
Originally posted by Inventorb
quote:
Originally posted by Inventorb
quote:
Originally posted by MarkEagle
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Arker
[B]This 4 mil vynil that you are talkin' about... Is it just the stuff found at a hardware store on the big dispenser rolls? If it is, how does it stay on? Just curious if you use an adhesive or if it's static. Or even jammed under the edges of the screen which I'd like to avoid if possible. If it attaches staticly that would be perfect!

Yup... that's the stuff. It's also available from most fabric shops and even places like Wal-Mart.

Static is what holds it in place. Don't ask me to explain it, but it holds quite well... no slipping or sliding around. I've found that the easiest way to remove it is with a piece of tape in a corner to pull it up off the screen. In case you're wondering, the size you need to cut it to is 6.0 cm X 8.0 cm.

Vinyl:
Please use caution while using "Vinyl" Some of the vinyl are made with a lot of
junk. This will damage your Electronic Instrument. For instance a High Sulfur content
will damage your instrument over time. The damage will occur by magnetic forces
and cause a black out in a certain area. The response will be from negative and
positive electrons clashing. Read Sir J.J. Thompson theories in the late 1800s they
come into play.

Thank You
Inventor

Consumers ENJOY

I made a major move yesterday.
This is a very strategic move related to overall royalty rates.
I have restructured my contracts in a significant manner to spur Competition and
to Lower the costs involved on my end.

This move should help all CONSUMERS, MANUFACTURES, and SELLERS to
compete and comply in a more reasonable manner.

A special thanks to VC for allowing me to post this question.
For all the negative bugs out their you will see.

Thank you
Inventor [/B][/QUOTE]

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Posted by Hoser_back_home on 09-25-2000 01:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jeff318
I remember James saying something about all topics related to warman's protectors wwould be deleted.

Actually, Jeff this isn't.

I'm learning quite a bit here thanks to Markr13 and MelHerd. I'm a metallurgist so it's nice to learn something from the materials world. (decided to not take that stream in university....chose metals over materials

)

markr13,

You obviously know quite a bit about this topic, so (as i always like to ask) i have a question. Is there any form of 'plastic' (sorry for generalizing) out there that would ultimately lead to a 'perfect screen'? That doesn't scratch easily, allows the touch-screen function to operate. In other words, if you could build a screen for your Visor, what would you do? And why haven't PDA manufacturers come to this same product? Price? Availability?

Thanks.

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