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-- expansion module question (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=1526)

I am considering purchasing a Visor. my question is this: can I view applications or programs that I've installed on the 8mb expansion memory card directly, or must I move them to my main Visor memory in order to view them (as used to be the case with the TRG's compact flash).
also, is there an expansion memory card in the works that would hold more than 8mb???? that seems to be one of visor's main limitations.
thanks,

quote:

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Originally posted by dlieuwen:
...also, is there an expansion memory card in the works that would hold more than 8mb???? that seems to be one of visor's main limitations.
thanks,

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not the library of congress but a ton of medical software (ie, more than 16mb worth). do you know the answer to my first question either?

quote:

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Originally posted by dlieuwen:
not the library of congress but a ton of medical software (ie, more than 16mb worth). do you know the answer to my first question either?

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Yes, you can view anything on the 8MB module. Any apps will show in the normal apps listing, and you can use the File Mover app that comes on the module to view/manage any files on either the module or the Visor.

The MiniJam can hold up to 128MB (I think) of MultiMedia Card memory (as well as function as an MP3 player), and it will be out later this month.

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James Hromadka
VisorCentral.com
Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com

I have an Ice Visor Deluxe and have been using it in the hospital since December. I've pretty much filled up my 8mg of internal memory as well as the 8mg of the flash memory module. I have many medical applications and books; some stored in the internal memory, some stored on the flash module. There are many students that rotate through our hospital that have the TRG pro. However, what you have to realize is that I only refer to about 3 of my many medical programs in my Visor (the rest of them are just there in case someone else might want to look up something, or for me to demo or show off what kind of programs are available to put in these little pda's that are medically related). I'm not sure what you want to put in your Visor, and if you're actually going to utilize everything you put in there, but it's something to think about. It's nice I guess to have 10 different medical books on your pda, but the issue is are you going to use all of them (if you actually have the time to look up so much stuff standing around, then you probably don't have enough work to do; I'm not being sarcastic, just bringing up a practical point).
Yet another issue to realize is that some programs and databases will not allow you to store and use the program off of flash rom (modules), so you're still limited to what you can put into the extra memory available (regardless if you have an extra 8mg or 64mg, whether it be a Visor or TRGpro), unless some programmers have realized this and rewritten their programs. The only medical references (books) that I know that will let you save the book and let you use it in the flash rom (module) is handmedical (but you have to use their reader application). But again, the issue lies in whether you're going to use all the books you put in your pda.
The third issue is that when you have so much more memory, as I've noticed with the students in our hospital, the machines tend to run a little slower (and that can sometimes be frustrating especially with huge books such as the complete Merc). There are ofcourse hacks, such as Afterburner that will help out; but the difference is still noticeable.
It's nice to have tons of memory, and I'll probably get any module that will allow me to store more than 8mg externally (just because I'm one of those "must have all the memory available" type people), but if price is any consideration at all, as well as options for future expandibility, I would definitely go with the Visor. It seems with the Visor, you can start out with the bare minimum, but can build it up to whatever you want it to be (and it seems Springboards are slowly and stronly popping up in retail). As a matter of fact, in our hospital's Internship and Residency program, all of them are provided with a brand new Visor Deluxe (in graphite of course, they didn't get a choice in what colors; but I guess they can't complain when it's free to them).
Hope the above information will help in your decision.

If you use the 8MB Flash Module then, yes, any programs or data files stored on the Flash Module will show up just like programs and data in RAM.

Some of programs will even run from the Flash Module, others will not. Some data files will be usable from the Flash module, others will not. The key difference here is wether or not each specific program needs to write to the data file (or itself) under normal usage. If it does, then it won't work from Flash. The reason is that writing to Flash is not the same as writing to RAM. Hence the need for the FileMover program.

I just found out that the TRGpro has a new bit of software called AutoCF that allows programs and data to be run off of a CF memory card without the user first having to move the program or data to RAM. This is impressive. I wonder if the software is first moving the data from the CF memory to RAM and then running it. If not, is there a limit to the size of the data file that can be accessed this way with AutoCF? Can someone with a TRGpro clarify this?

I not sure if there will ever be a Flash module that is greater than 8MB. This is because the processor in the Visor, the Motorola Dragonball EZ, only has a 24-bit external address bus. This gives it a fundamental limit of a 16MB address space. So with 8MB of RAM there is only 8MB of space left for Flash. Also, another limit in the Dragonball's DRAM controller places an 8MB limit on the size of addessable DRAM.

Thanks for all the replies. I actually had ordered the TRG and today cancelled the order in order to reevaluate my priorities re: the correct PDA. I am probably going to go ahead and get a visor delux.
by the way, does everyone agree with the last post (before mine) about 16mb being the limit of the memory the visor will allow? is this correct?

dlieuwen,

The 16MB limit is real. BUT this only applies to the memory that the processor can directly execute programs from. The MinJam Springboard module has two MMC card slots. That means with the largest size MMC cards available - 64MB - you can get 128MB of storage via the MMC cards.

This storage will act more like a disk drive than main memory. You will have to move programs and data back and forth between the MMC cards and the Visor's main memory in order to use them. I suspect that the MiniJam uses special software to serially access the music data, instead of transfering it to RAM, while playing MP3s.

BUT if someone can develope a program like TRG's AutoCF, that might make the transfers transparent to the user. What happens is this: When you go run a program that is in the Compact Flash card (for the TRG) it first downloads it to RAM and then runs it. When you quit the program, it wipes it out of RAM. It does a similar thing with the data files. I've heard that you only notice a slight delay when the program transfers from Flash.

Thank you very much for the reply. I now understand!!!

Another thing you might be interested in, being in the medical profession, is the PDR 2000 version Springboard go to http://hs.palmgear.com/ for details. There is also a PDR 2000/Visor orVisor Deluxe package you can get too.

Also, unlike the TRG Pro, the visor is expandable by more than just memory and is a little more compact that the TRG Pro.

Hope this helps!

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-Petro
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Regarding the PDR springboard, I wouldn't recommend it. Not for the reason of practicality, but for the reason of medical content. The PDR is pretty much a photocopy of drug pamphlet inserts (the inserts that come with medications), and these are always biased information (they of course put in print as much as they can to promote their drugs). It is not the most objective information. I recommend ePocrates, and maybe Lexidrugs for drug references (with ePocrates, you can consistently update new information off the internet - their site - and it's free).

quote:

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Originally posted by MPM:
...I not sure if there will ever be a Flash module that is greater than 8MB. This is because the processor in the Visor, the Motorola Dragonball EZ, only has a 24-bit external address bus. This gives it a fundamental limit of a 16MB address space...

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Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. Now my job is to patiently await more memory! by the way, I just bought me a handspring last week.

Why don't you just get two 8mb modules? Thatway you have 24 mbs of memory, and you can just change them when you need thsi program or that!