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- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- Implications of MemPlug & PiDirect (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=15553)

Gameboy70,

Now that you've clarified what you meant, I find myself more annoyed.

When I talk about being self-deceived and that we should disabuse ourselves of the notion that every piece of software that comes down the pike is free, it seems directly applicable to your sentence:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gameboy70

You also haven't said to customers who paid for the MemPlug that it wasn't free. Which is more misleading?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gameboy70
While you don't necessarily owe anything to MemPlug owners who bought the product before PiDirect was announced, the imminent release of PiDirect certainly influenced more than a few potential customers to buy the MemPlug who otherwise would not have considered a memory solution that couldn't run apps directly. You have every right to charge for your software, but your intentions should've been stated immediately in the initial press release. That's a very basic piece of information, and there was no reason to leave it out.

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Bottom Line

Bottom line is that PU should ahve said in their press release that there would be an additional charge for PiDirect. I was under the impression that it was a free upgrade until they update their web site. In fact, I was thinking fo buying one (CF) because of the PiDirect announcement.

P is a great company with some great and innovative products. BUt, that does not mean they are perfec. ANd, they should not be above criticism.

I think its safe to assume that when there is practically no mention of a product's price, and when the website even lists the product among other software which is include at no cost, that the product is free.

I realise I was the main "Deal with it" person, and I was rather angry at them charging for the software but I've resolved to hold any judgement until I learn of a final price. If the product is above $15 I will be annoyed, above $20 then I'll be kinda angry, but they'll most likely price it at whatever no matter what my opinion. I still believe PiDirect should offer those who purchase a MemPlug, before PiDirect leaves beta, a fairly decent discount similar to what WordSmith did.

I love my MemPlug and its offered me so many more options, heck - it replaces a lot of other modules. We need to all simmer down and wait till an announcement.

__________________
Matt Nichols
[email protected]

quote:

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Originally posted by Matthew Nichols
I think its safe to assume that when there is practically no mention of a product's price, and when the website even lists the product among other software which is include at no cost, that the product is free.

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Re: Re: MemPlug API

quote:

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Originally posted by dvIceT

these guys aren't working their butts off so you don't have to spend any money on software. While VFS-support would be great, I'm pretty sure all your talk of "standard" API's especially VFS is based on the efforts of another hard-working programmer, who has for now *chosen* to give away his PiDirect-like MSMount for free.

If you would be complaining just as loudly about the "non-standard" MemPlug API if PiDirect were free and you had to pay for MSMount, I apologize, but there's just a Napster-esque quality to your and many other posts in this thread.

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PiDirect runs directly from module?

Someone earlier mentioned that PiDirect runs its programs from the SM card and does not transfer them to RAM first. Can anyone confirm this? Their website uses terms like "seamlessly accessed." That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work precisely like Launcher III seems to work.

On a side note, I agree it was intentionally misleading to not discuss a price when posting the software next to all the other free software. Keep in mind that regardless of whether we've been conditioned to expect free stuff (Napster-itis or sorts), PID already released programs that didn't come with the original memplug, and did so for free (CSpot for e.g.). I believe they new what they were doing. The worst that could happen is some folks ran out and bought a memplug when they might not have.

Having said that, I concur with the general consensus that it is a superior product and superior software. Compared to the other options available, it's no contest.

I'm just sorry I sold mine two weeks before the announcement of PiDirect. I would have kept it, and would happily pay for software that allows the one feature I thought it missing.

quote:

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Originally posted by dvIceT
What I find more disconcerting is that you seem perfectly content to get more value for your buck than early adopters of the MemPlug

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quote:

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In essence, since you say they(PI) "don't necessarily owe anything to MemPlug owners who bought the product before PiDirect was announced," you imply that it's OK to give the shaft to early adopters by including PiDirect for free for those who buy the MemPlug now.

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quote:

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Would you be happier if PI simply raised the price of the MemPlug w/PiDirect, which they are well within their rights to do?

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quote:

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Interestingly, an earlier poster had just the opposite sentiment of yours, that early adopters should get it for free, while relative latecomers should have to pay.

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I'm a little disappointed to see VC fracture itself along self-motivated lines. In a previous thread, I was somewhat chided by a few posters for expressing frustration that PiDirect would not work on PalmOS 3.1 devices. I was hoping for "Gee, they really should support 3.1 too" or "I understand what you're saying. Too bad." but mosty got some advice that I should acclimate myself to my present situation("Deal with it.") I'm ashamed to admit that I find it amusing that some of those 3.5'ers who thought they would get more value for their buck than 3.1'ers, now bridle at the thought of paying more bucks to get that greater value.

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Re: PiDirect runs directly from module?

quote:

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Originally posted by jasonp
Someone earlier mentioned that PiDirect runs its programs from the SM card and does not transfer them to RAM first. Can anyone confirm this? Their website uses terms like "seamlessly accessed." That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work precisely like Launcher III seems to work.

On a side note, I agree it was intentionally misleading to not discuss a price when posting the software next to all the other free software. Keep in mind that regardless of whether we've been conditioned to expect free stuff (Napster-itis or sorts), PID already released programs that didn't come with the original memplug, and did so for free (CSpot for e.g.). I believe they new what they were doing. The worst that could happen is some folks ran out and bought a memplug when they might not have.

Having said that, I concur with the general consensus that it is a superior product and superior software. Compared to the other options available, it's no contest.

I'm just sorry I sold mine two weeks before the announcement of PiDirect. I would have kept it, and would happily pay for software that allows the one feature I thought it
missing.

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Gameboy70,

All right, it may have taken me a while, but I see that you have a principled objection to PI Technology's handling of the PiDirect release, and that it really isn't about the money. For a few other people in this thread, it is about the money, but they're making it about supposedly shoddy programs and API's. I guess we're coming from different vantage points.

quote:

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Originally posted by Gameboy70
I'll pay for your PiDirect software, if it would get you to look beyond the "value" issue. This isn't about free software.

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Re: MemPlug API

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Originally posted by Euxx
Hey, wait a second. I didn't say that it's a bad to have not just free software. But why should I pay twice if I will decide to change memory device to something different?

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quote:

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Originally posted by dvIceT
I should annoy you into getting me a Prism

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Re: Re: MemPlug API

quote:

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Originally posted by dvIceT


If you paid about $45 for the MemPlug because it's the premier external memory storage solution out there, and then you could pay about $15 for software to make that memory active or runnable, I would consider that extra $15 well worth it, even if that software doesn't port to other memory solutions.

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Now that we've all had our say...

any chance that we can agree to have this dead horse carted out of the thread and go back to talking about the possibilities and uses of it?

Subject, of course, to the understanding that anyone who cares to, can drag the bleeding carcass back in again after we learn the price.

__________________
-Michael-

quote:

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Originally posted by Gameboy70


Handspring should offer the Prism for free

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Re: Now that we've all had our say...

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Originally posted by MHCohn
any chance that we can agree to have this dead horse carted out of the thread and go back to talking about the possibilities and uses of it?

Subject, of course, to the understanding that anyone who cares to, can drag the bleeding carcass back in again after we learn the price.

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__________________
<div align="left"><font size="+2" color="#FF8000">Mike</font>
<hr width="200">
<font color="Red"><i>Programming is the struggle between programmers<br> building bigger and better idiot proof systems<br> and the universe building bigger and better idiots</i></font>
<hr width="200">
<b><a href="http://enhanceyourlife.com">http://enhanceyourlife.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.furrbrain.com">http://www.furrbrain.com</a></b></div>

I guess this may be a step back toward the original topic of the thread. I quote this from the Flash Adapter Group. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Kessler and found his comparison comments very interesting. It seems that for many of us, the MemPlug API may offer some advantages over the OS4.0 solution.

quote:

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From: "David J. Kessler" <dkessler@k...>
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2001 12:26 pm
Subject: Re: [flashadapter-forum] VFS vs PiDirect especially directed at Dave


On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:45:56AM -0000, akwo@w... wrote:
> Now that all the details of PiDirect is on their web site. i would
> like to know the differences between the two without all the jargon.

It's really tough to explain all this in non-technical terms, but I'll
give it a shot.

> 1. How are they similar?

Both solutions give apps a way to read data from the memory
card. PiDirect "tricks" the OS into thinking that one of the
directories on the CF card is built-in read only memory. VFS doesn't
do any tricks, it just gives apps a standard way to access data on the
memory card.

> 2. How do they work?

PiDirect is transparent to the applications. Databases stored on the
card are accessed by the applications just as if they were stored in
RAM (except no writing is allowed). VFS requires that applications be
designed to work with an removable storage memory card. Since it is a
Palm standard, any app written to use VFS functions will work with
SD/MMC cards on a Palm m50x, MemorySticks on a Clie, and CF cards on a
TRGPro. When we have a VFS solution for FlashAdapter, those same apps
will work with it.

Of course the app launcher is really just a regular Palm OS
application, so PiDirect will let the launcher "see" and run apps that
are stored on the memory card. VFS requires that the launcher
"understand" the concept of memory cards, so a third party launcher
(such as Launcher III or SilverScreen) will be required to launch apps
from CF via VFS.

> 3. WHat are the differences in functionality?
>
> 4. What are the pros/cons or advantages/disadvantages of each?

PiDirect lets existing apps use the memory card without their
knowledge. VFS requires that apps be "designed" to use a memory
card. The former has the advantage of making a wider range of apps
"memory card compatible", but the downside is that the methods that
existing apps use to access databases are *very* inefficient for
accessing data that is stored in files. Applications specifically
designed to work with a memory card understand the pros and cons of
getting their data that way and can be designed to access the data in
much more efficient ways. Lastly, PiDirect doesn't allow apps to write
to the memory card. That's not a problem for reference databases and
read only documents, but there are many cases where a read/write
solution is better. For example, I *predict* you will see a version of
AvantGo within the next year that will be able to store web content on
a memory card using VFS.

> 5. Which is better for large files and why?

Both have the potential to work equally well. However, PiDirect will
only work well with large files that are broken into many small
database records. Many files are like this, but some (such as
Mapopolis maps) are pretty much just one big record so PiDirect
becomes nothing more than an automover in that case.

> 6. If I have 1 MB of space left on my Visor and have a 5 MB document
> I want to view, would I be able to do it with any of these solutions?

As I indicated above, in the case of PiDirect, it depends on the
database format. If we're talking Aportis Doc format, then yes, you
would be able to view the 5MB doc on a Visor with 1MB of RAM free. But
the FlashAdapter can do the same now with CSpotRun, and future VFS
enabled doc readers will give you the same capability.

Now one last thing to keep in mind is that an application like MSMount
uses VFS functions to provide capabilities very similar to
PiDirect. So with VFS you have the potential to get the best of both
worlds.

--
- Dave Kessler
President - Kopsis, Inc.
http://kopsisengineering.com

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__________________
Steve (8C>