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Posted by Madkins007 on 06-18-2002 03:54 PM:

Bill Nye the Science Guy- technically and scientifically OK, but sheesh- hardly the way to break the old 'science geek' stereotype!

Beakman's World (the one with the rat)- Also good technical/scientific merits, but so full of fast cut editing and other stuff that it seems like only a few seconds each show is really spent on science or education.

Ahhh, Mr. Wizard- the stuff I remember and learned. Optical illusions, exploding and burning stuff...

Small rant...
My wife is a teacher and told me something interesting about the way they teach science in schools- they do it in alphabetical order: biology, chemistry, physics. This means that most students take biology (to satisfy their science requirements), fewer take chem., and only the few, the proud, and the chosen take physics.

This is so backwards and arbitrary. A basic understanding of physics, chem., and biology helps so much in understanding the others and the rest of the world. It would make so much more sense to offer a 'General Science' sort of course- with all of the science-based programs that are or have been on, they should be able to put together some real killer visuals!
....end rant

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Do what you can, with what you have, where you are at!

Posted by K. Cannon on 06-18-2002 04:02 PM:

Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by fixitgal
One more "beep beep" and I would have wrung his scrawny neck myself.

Me too! They did a special episode one time which was touted as when the Coyote was to finally catch the Road Runner. I think it ended with the Road Runner turning giant-sized and escaping. What a freaking gyp!!
Kelley

Posted by Toby on 06-18-2002 04:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
[...] My wife is a teacher

Ditto

quote:
and told me something interesting about the way they teach science in schools- they do it in alphabetical order: biology, chemistry, physics.

I don't think alphabetical order is the primary reason. The primary reason is that the maths in each are progressively more challenging.

quote:
This means that most students take biology (to satisfy their science requirements), fewer take chem., and only the few, the proud, and the chosen take physics.

That's not how it works at my wife's school (and I can't imagine they're exactly cutting edge).

quote:
This is so backwards and arbitrary.

See above. It's not arbitrary or backwards.

quote:
A basic understanding of physics, chem., and biology helps so much in understanding the others and the rest of the world. It would make so much more sense to offer a 'General Science' sort of course- with all of the science-based programs that are or have been on, they should be able to put together some real killer visuals!

AAMOF, the school my wife teaches at has just that. There are three levels of science curriculums. The college prep level has the three you mentioned (and those kids aren't likely to skip) as well as II versions when there's a large enough demand. The 'average' range has things like environmental science and physical science to give a less technical overview. Then the 'vocational' range has PT (Physics of Technology) to give even the kids looking for a trade a basic overview which will be useful to them.

Posted by John Nowak on 06-18-2002 05:04 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon

They did a special episode one time which was touted as when the Coyote was to finally catch the Road Runner. I think it ended with the Road Runner turning giant-sized and escaping. What a freaking gyp!!
Kelley

Actually, I believe it ended with the Coyote shrinking down to the point where he was unable to do anything once he "caught" the Road Runner.

Ied if it had been otherwise. Wile E. Coyote is a totem of failure and it would have been as "wrong" as having Charlie Brown win a baseball game.

Posted by K. Cannon on 06-18-2002 05:09 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
Actually, I believe it ended with the Coyote shrinking down to the point where he was unable to do anything once he "caught" the Road Runner.

I think you're right on this.

quote:
Ied if it had been otherwise. Wile E. Coyote is a totem of failure and it would have been as "wrong" as having Charlie Brown win a baseball game.

Well, I sure woulda loved to see him kick the football from Lucy one good time.

I think my problem was that Wile E. Coyote (Genius) had nifty gadgets and contraptions, and (in the ones where he talks) a very erudite and charming personality. Brains should always win out over "Beep, beep" (at least in my childhood).

John, you probably voted against The Rabbit getting Trix, didn't you!!

Kelley

Posted by John Nowak on 06-18-2002 05:31 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon

Well, I sure woulda loved to see him kick the football from Lucy one good time.

It would have felt good, yes -- but it would have dilluted the character.

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon

I think my problem was that Wile E. Coyote (Genius) had nifty gadgets and contraptions, and (in the ones where he talks) a very erudite and charming personality. Brains should always win out over "Beep, beep" (at least in my childhood).

There is that, yes, but there's an element of humility in there as well: Wile E. Coyote's arrogance led to his downfall many a time. It's a good, cautionary story.

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon

John, you probably voted against The Rabbit getting Trix, didn't you!!
Kelley

Nay, never. The arbitrary and cruel restriction of Trix to kids offends me greatly. If the rabbit wants Trix, he surely had the right to buy it, and to say otherwise is anti-lagomorph Apartheid of the most blatant kind.

Posted by Yorick on 06-18-2002 07:22 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
They did a special episode one time which was touted as when the Coyote was to finally catch the Road Runner. I think it ended with the Road Runner turning giant-sized and escaping.

Wile E. went thru a progressively-smaller pipe and came out the other end very very small. He latches onto the still normally sized Road Runner, then produces a sign saying (paraphrased, I don't have my Looney Tunes guidebook here with me to verify) "okay, I caught him, now what?" and iris out. He might have gotten out a napkin and fork-and-knife too.
Think it was a Chuck Jones.

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Posted by Yorick on 06-18-2002 07:27 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

Originally posted by K. Cannon
Well, I sure woulda loved to see him kick the football from Lucy one good time.
that either did, or very nearly did, happen in the last year of the strip.

I think my problem was that Wile E. Coyote (Genius) had nifty gadgets and contraptions, and (in the ones where he talks) a very erudite and charming personality. Brains should always win out over "Beep, beep" (at least in my childhood).
If he was so smart, then why
a) did he keep buying junk that never works from Acme?
b) couldn't he come up with a plan that worked? (his plans against the bunny failed too.)
I think his biggest failure is that he thought the Road Runner was stupid, but it wasn't.

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Posted by John Nowak on 06-18-2002 07:36 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick
a) did he keep buying junk that never works from Acme?
[/B]

To be fair, I think that everything he got from Acme worked just fine. The Batman Costume allowed him to fly; the fact he went into a cliff is hardly Acme's fault.

Posted by Yorick on 06-18-2002 08:48 PM:

True.
Wile E. Coyote, Genius, may seem intelligent and well-spoken ... but he's incredibly inept.

I always laugh when I see him fall into a crevasse, tho.

__________________
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Posted by bookrats on 06-18-2002 09:16 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by K. Cannon
Brains should always win out over "Beep, beep" (at least in my childhood).

Unfortunately, real life doesn't work that way.

Kudos to Chuck Jones et. al. for letting us laugh over it, though.

__________________
Jeff Meyer

"And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."

Posted by John Nowak on 06-19-2002 12:23 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by bookrats

And he died as he lived ...

Trumpy can do magic things.

Posted by bookrats on 06-19-2002 12:53 AM:

Silly Rabbit -> MST3K

quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
Trumpy can do magic things.

"Sure it's phallic! Why shouldn't it be?"

__________________
Jeff Meyer

"And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."

Posted by John Nowak on 06-19-2002 02:13 AM:

Re: Silly Rabbit -> MST3K

quote:
Originally posted by bookrats

"Sure it's phallic! Why shouldn't it be?"

That one I can't identify, I'm afraid. You win!

Posted by Winchell on 06-19-2002 02:56 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak

Ied if it had been otherwise. Wile E. Coyote is a totem of failure and it would have been as "wrong" as having Charlie Brown win a baseball game.

I actually see Wile E. Coyote as a totem to Murphy's Law.

He is also a fanatic, i.e., a person who redoubles his efforts when he has lost sight of his aim. The original point to getting the Road Runner was because he was edible. Many of the Coyote's later traps would preclude even a scrap of Road Runner meat surviving.

Posted by Madkins007 on 06-19-2002 03:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
I don't think alphabetical order is the primary reason. The primary reason is that the maths in each are progressively more challenging

According to the book on history of curriculum development my wife studied*, alphabetical order was the main reason they were presented in the current order. It has been this way for so long that it is now accepted as the norm.

(*This is one of many interesting tidbits she learned about the subject while going for her Masters and setting up one of the first all-day kindergartens in Omaha. Another was the fact that all kindergartens used to be all-day and went to half-days because of the baby boom after the war. Knowing this, it was rather hilarious listening to parents argue that half-day kindergarten was *designed* that way to accomodate short attention spans, or that all-day would be too rough on the students!)

I know some states and some schools are more progressive or advanced in the sciences (and math, technology, etc.) than others are. Omaha has good schools, but their science/tech curricula is only so-so, and my wife teaches at a parochial elementary school that has strong academics but is still a bit woozy on science/tech. Even in the schools here that offer 'general science', it is still usually taught as seperate, unrelated disciplines.

Of course, in elementary school, the subject is often taught only as well as the teachers understand it themselves- and all too often, they are strong in language arts, and weak in one or more other areas.

Its good to hear that schools in your area use a blended science approach, and offer it in levels so most students have at least SOME exposure to it!

(This whole discussion is very appropo to me right now because my wife is away at a K-12 Math/Science/Technology Integration seminar- three weeks long, classes from 8 to 8 M-F and 8-4 on Sat. Grueling workload, but she is having a blast! It is sponsored by the Howard Hughs Medical Institute, and she has been blowing things up in the physics section for the last couple weeks!)

__________________
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are at!

Posted by Toby on 06-19-2002 04:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Madkins007
According to the book on history of curriculum development my wife studied*, alphabetical order was the main reason they were presented in the current order.

Do you happen to have a title/author? Was that the only source which presented it that way? The reason I ask is that my wife teaches and has written curriculum for high school science. I can tell you that the requirements of each class are progressively harder.

quote:
It has been this way for so long that it is now accepted as the norm.

Were it not for the issue I raised, I might not be so quick to doubt it.

quote:
(*This is one of many interesting tidbits she learned about the subject while going for her Masters and setting up one of the first all-day kindergartens in Omaha.

Wow...and we're supposed to be a backwards state.

quote:
Another was the fact that all kindergartens used to be all-day and went to half-days because of the baby boom after the war. Knowing this, it was rather hilarious listening to parents argue that half-day kindergarten was *designed* that way to accomodate short attention spans, or that all-day would be too rough on the students!)

That one makes perfect sense to me. Kindergartens went back to being all-day here circa 1976 or 1977. We seemed to be the last big group to go through the baby-boom setup (the current enrollment at my high school alma mater is 2/3 or less than that in my class when actual population is slightly up).

quote:
I know some states and some schools are more progressive or advanced in the sciences (and math, technology, etc.) than others are. [...]

heh...I'm just surprised we're one of them.

Posted by John Nowak on 06-19-2002 04:33 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly rabbit...

quote:
Originally posted by Winchell

I actually see Wile E. Coyote as a totem to Murphy's Law.

He is also a fanatic, i.e., a person who redoubles his efforts when he has lost sight of his aim. The original point to getting the Road Runner was because he was edible. Many of the Coyote's later traps would preclude even a scrap of Road Runner meat surviving.

I think that's a more interesting ionterpertation. Neat observation!

Posted by bookrats on 06-19-2002 05:32 PM:

Re: Re: Silly Rabbit -> MST3K

quote:
Originally posted by Bookrats
"Sure it's phallic! Why shouldn't it be?"

quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak
That one I can't identify, I'm afraid. You win!

More MST3K, specifically Danger! Death Ray.

__________________
Jeff Meyer

"And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."

Posted by John Nowak on 06-19-2002 06:02 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Silly Rabbit -> MST3K

quote:
Originally posted by bookrats

More MST3K, specifically Danger! Death Ray.

Never caught that one -- thanks!

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