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Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 02:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
Both are silly to me... but I have to say the german 'no coca cola' thing is clearly a tongue in cheeck response to the recent 'boycot' in the US...

I think it's especially silly considering that most of the things they're boycotting are franchises. The ones who will be hurt most are probably local to them.

quote:
What a lot of americans don't realize is that if they start boycotting people, people will respond by boycotting the US... I'm not sure about the import/export ratio of the US, but it could pose a mayor problem..

Considering that the US typically runs significant trade deficits, I'm not sure how major it might be.

Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 02:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Seems silly to me, but perhaps a bit more justifiable.

*shrug* I think they're about the same on a silliness scale.

quote:
A given Freedom Fry was probably not made in in Chirac's country, and therefore no assistance would be sent to Freedom. Of course Freedom Fries were invented by a Belgian (or so I've heard).

Doesn't matter ultimately. No one is hurt by renaming french fries. Boycotting local McDonalds, though is going to hurt those local franchise holders.

Posted by ToolkiT on 03-26-2003 03:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Considering that the US typically runs significant trade deficits, I'm not sure how major it might be.

Ok, so you are importing more than you export... but how much do you export?
And how much of the import can you produce yourself?
In other words how self sufficient is the US? Fact of the matter is the US and the EU need each other... neither of them is self sufficient..

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Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 03:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

Both are silly to me... but I have to say the german 'no coca cola' thing is clearly a tongue in cheeck response to the recent 'boycot' in the US...
What a lot of americans don't realize is that if they start boycotting people, people will respond by boycotting the US... I'm not sure about the import/export ratio of the US, but it could pose a mayor problem..

We have the largest trade deficit in the world (by many orders of magnitude). Imports are much more important.

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Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 03:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT

Ok, so you are importing more than you export... but how much do you export?
And how much of the import can you produce yourself?
In other words how self sufficient is the US? Fact of the matter is the US and the EU need each other... neither of them is self sufficient..

Yes, but I'd be **amazed** if these silly "boycotts" ever have a material affect on anything. In either direction.

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Posted by ToolkiT on 03-26-2003 03:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Yes, but I'd be **amazed** if these silly "boycotts" ever have a material affect on anything. In either direction.

I agree, these silly "boycotts" are plain silly... on both sites..

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Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 03:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
[...] And how much of the import can you produce yourself?
In other words how self sufficient is the US? Fact of the matter is the US and the EU need each other... neither of them is self sufficient..

No, we're not very self-sufficient at the moment, but it's more for cheaper costs than any lack of ability.

Posted by ToolkiT on 03-26-2003 03:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
No, we're not very self-sufficient at the moment, but it's more for cheaper costs than any lack of ability.

probably true but if all of your imports were cut of you would have a big problem till you set up industry yourself...

p.s. your sig. made me think of the old line:
fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity....

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Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 03:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
probably true but if all of your imports were cut of you would have a big problem till you set up industry yourself...

I think you drastically underestimate the US, if you don't think we'd cope with it.

quote:
p.s. your sig. made me think of the old line:
fighting for peace is like f***ing for virginity....

Ahh, but "Si vis pacem, para bellum".

Posted by ToolkiT on 03-26-2003 03:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
I think you drastically underestimate the US, if you don't think we'd cope with it.

I'm sure you'll cope eventually but it wil make a mayor dent in your economy...

Ahh, but "Si vis pacem, para bellum". [/QUOTE]
My latin is a bit rusty.... Bellum is war, Si is probably when..vis is seeing?
When seeing peace, comes war?

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Posted by clulup on 03-26-2003 08:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Yes, but I'd be **amazed** if these silly "boycotts" ever have a material affect on anything. In either direction.

I perfectly agree that these boycotts are not usefull at all. Here in Zurich some strange people have thrown balloons filled with paint at the local Citigroup subsidiary in the second night of the war. Since then a guy in a blue raincoat (no uniform) is standing in front of the citigroup door ALL day long. He was there when I arrived yesterday morning and was still there when I left at 7:30 p.m. Same thing this mornning - poor guy, guess I'll bring him some coffee...

Posted by stanne on 03-26-2003 09:18 AM:

I just read this thread and I must laugh : Americans who want to change the name "french fries" into "freedom fries", just because France is against a war without UN support.

I think this shows how little cultural intelligence the Americans have.

The term "french fries" has nothing to do with French (from France). It comes from the verb "to french" which means (or at least meant) 'to cut into lengthwise pieces'. And, it were the Belgians who invented the french fries. You can read the whole story on www.belgianfries.com.

But all these boycots are really silly : the Americans want to boycot french fries and French wine while the Europeans boycot McDonalds.

If I had the choice between a fat burger from McDonalds and a fine French wine, I know which one to choose...

Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 11:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ToolkiT
I'm sure you'll cope eventually but it wil make a mayor dent in your economy...

Like I said, considering our trade deficit and history, I think we'd do just fine.

quote:
My latin is a bit rusty.... Bellum is war, Si is probably when..vis is seeing?
When seeing peace, comes war?

If you want peace, prepare for war.

Posted by clulup on 03-26-2003 02:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
If you want peace, prepare for war.

And isn't it funny that the Romans said that? After all, they were well known for their peace loving nature all around the Mediterranean. Not that it did them any good in the end, just another nation trying to rule the world.

Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 02:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
I think you drastically underestimate the US, if you don't think we'd cope with it

Hopefully this is never tested as it would cripple the economy. Absolutely cripple. Your assessment is far too rosy.

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Posted by stanne on 03-26-2003 02:57 PM:

another thing to consider about "freedom of speech"

At this very time (15.30 GMT+1) European TV stations, including BBC, are reporting that American bombs hit a market in Baghdad and killed at least 15 civilians.

You can even read it on the website of the BBC.

On CNN however, no reports about that "incident", nor on television nor on their website...

Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 03:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by clulup
And isn't it funny that the Romans said that? After all, they were well known for their peace loving nature all around the Mediterranean. Not that it did them any good in the end, just another nation trying to rule the world.

I don't think the sentiment is discounted simply because of who said it. Don't the Swiss basically follow the same concept with their citizen militia? Although, perhaps it's better not to bring up their reported banking practices.

Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 03:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by KRamsauer
Hopefully this is never tested as it would cripple the economy. Absolutely cripple.

Oh please. Cripple is far too permanent a term.

quote:
Your assessment is far too rosy.

I think not. I didn't say it would be easy. AAMOF, it would probably be anything but for a few years. However, I think in the end, we'd wind up better off because of it. A service economy is a house of cards in most cases anyway.

Posted by Toby on 03-26-2003 03:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by stanne
another thing to consider about "freedom of speech"

At this very time (15.30 GMT+1) European TV stations, including BBC, are reporting that American bombs hit a market in Baghdad and killed at least 15 civilians.

You can even read it on the website of the BBC.

On CNN however, no reports about that "incident", nor on television nor on their website...

Another thing to consider about freedom of speech:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/886365.asp
Your conspiracy theories don't serve you well. CNN might not be reporting it until they can investigate it or corroborate it. It's easier to verify a story than to retract it. This cuts both ways.

edit: fixed url to one less likely to be changed

Posted by KRamsauer on 03-26-2003 04:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Oh please. Cripple is far too permanent a term.[B]I think not. I didn't say it would be easy. AAMOF, it would probably be anything but for a few years. However, I think in the end, we'd wind up better off because of it. A service economy is a house of cards in most cases anyway.

So you're a protectionist from a purely self-interest perspective (already objected to by me) but where do you place the importance of other countries who depend on us for trade? It has been conclusively demonstrated (to me, at least) that trade is mutually beneficial. This hints at my argument that Western trade policies have killed millions of Africans over the years.

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