VisorCentral.com - Visor Deluxe or Palm 3xe?????

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-- Visor Deluxe or Palm 3xe????? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=1371)

Posted by BEER_LUVER on 06-07-2000 08:10 AM:

I just bought the visor deluxe after much debate. Most of the PDA users I know have palms and many are the Palm3xe which I believe to be the most comparable to the visor. After telling my friend that I chose visor over palm, he flipped out and said that the springboard was a load of crap and that the palm os is better.

My question is what do all of you think about the palm3xe vs. the visor deluxe? I realize that the palm os is 3.5 or something and the visors is 3.1......does that make a big difference? Can either be upgraded?

The reason why I chose the visor was because of the springboard. I like the Idea of turning my pda into an mp3 player.

-Thanks

Posted by John Nowak on 06-07-2000 11:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by BEER_LUVER:
I just bought the visor deluxe after much debate. Most of the PDA users I know have palms and many are the Palm3xe which I believe to be the most comparable to the visor. After telling my friend that I chose visor over palm, he flipped out and said that the springboard was a load of crap and that the palm os is better.

Well, the Visor's OS is the Palm OS. The only advantage the Palm devices have, objectively, is flash ROM which allows the OS to be upgraded. It should be noted that by a strange coincidence, Palm never released a flash ROM OS upgrade until a competitor appeared which could not take advantage of it.

quote:

My question is what do all of you think about the palm3xe vs. the visor deluxe? I realize that the palm os is 3.5 or something and the visors is 3.1......does that make a big difference? Can either be upgraded?

You'll get a biased sample from this board, most likely; most of us made the same decision you did and for pretty much the same reasons: the Visor matches the performance of Palm devices and includes a Springboard slot. Personally, I bought the visor when it was considerably cheaper than the Palm devices.

There are some differences between 3.5 and 3.1h, but not many. There's a handful of programs out there which run only under 3.5. Unfortunately, I don't have a 3.5 device and can't really answer that one for you.

The Palm IIIxe can have its OS upgraded, as it has a reprogrammable Flash ROM chip. The Visor cannot. However, this is a hardware issue, and not a software issue.

quote:

The reason why I chose the visor was because of the springboard. I like the Idea of turning my pda into an mp3 player.

-Thanks

I like the potential too. The backup module is very useful, and the 8 meg Flash module allowed me to load a 6 meg dictionary plus street maps of a three county area for an upcoming trip. Finally, the modem module works well with the Stowaway keyboard, while my old Palm modem module would lock up my Palm unless I disabled the GoType driver for my old keyboard.

Posted by chipset on 06-07-2000 02:40 PM:

I had a Visor Deluxe, but traded to the Palm IIIxe.

All I can say is, depending on how you use the Visor, it may or may not be the best for you.

I can use my wireless modem on my Palm (can't on my old visor). I can hook a serial cable to it. I could sync with windows 2000 (at the time, there weren't any USB drivers for win2000).

I like both devices, but I felt the construction of the Palm was a little sturdier. Now, if they had come out with the Handy GPS module while I still owned my Visor, I probably would have kept it. The Visor offers the promise of the modules, if you want to add that type of functionality to your pda.

It really depends on your needs/wants.

Posted by erzeszut on 06-07-2000 03:23 PM:

As has been said, you'll probably get a biased sample of responses from this board. However, there are some empirical advantages to the Visor:

1) the Springboard slot
2) USB connection gives MUCH faster Syncing
3) the Handspring-tweaked version of the Palm OS outperforms even the the fastest Palm, the Vx. Check out Benchmark from www.quartus.net

All in all, I couldn't be happier with my Graphite VDx, and when it came time for my brother's high school graduation, deciding which PDA to purchase for him was a no brainer! (Unfortunately, I'm a cheap older brother, so it was just a regular Visor for him!)

Eric

Posted by Hawkeye on 06-07-2000 03:51 PM:

Both devices are very similar. Personally, I prefer Palm. However, I'm not interested in Springboards. If you feel that you would take advantage of that option, stick with the Visor.

If you feel Flash ROM is important for future upgrades or Flash Utitilities like FlashPro or JackFlash, go with the Palm.

Interestingly, John Nowak posted this:

quote:
It should be noted that by a strange coincidence, Palm never released a flash ROM OS upgrade until a competitor appeared which could not take advantage of it.

That's not true. Palm released the OS 3.3 before Visors were available. Palm users with 3.1 or below could upgrade, like I did. Therefore, the feature of Flash ROM isn't just to give Palm a seeming advantage. It is a useful feature for some users, and useless to others. It's all based on your needs.

The two devices are so similar it would probably be best just to stick with the Visor. Maybe some awesome springboard will come along and you'll be happy you kept the Visor. However if Flash appeals to you, go with the Palm.

PS - Regarding the post about speed, HandSpring "tweaked" the OS be removing the wait states. You can do this to a Palm with a simple program called "Cruise Control" which can be downloaded by clicking the link below:

http://www.backupbuddy.com/cc/ccontrol.zip

[This message has been edited by Hawkeye (edited 06-07-2000).]

Posted by John Nowak on 06-07-2000 05:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye:

That's not true. Palm released the OS 3.3 before Visors were available. Palm users with 3.1 or below could upgrade, like I did. Therefore, the feature of Flash ROM isn't just to give Palm a seeming advantage. It is a useful feature for some users, and useless to others. It's all based on your needs.

Hawkeye forgot to mention that when OS 3.3 was released, the Visor was announced and orders were being taken. The fact they were not actually shipping yet doesn't change the fact OS 3.3 was timed, possibly deliberately, by Palm to make the Visor less desireable.

Incidentally, I don't think the way Palm was suddenly able to drop their prices by 30% or so when the Visor came out was entirely a coincidence either.

Posted by Hoser_back_home on 06-07-2000 05:51 PM:

I'm starting to feel that perhaps a Palm is the way i'll go with my next PDA. Especially considering the upgrade to a 200MHz StrongArm processor and wireless capability built right in. I realized recently that the only modules i want for my visor (of those announced) is some form of communication through a land-line (modem) the capability of wireless communication, and voice recording for memos.

If the new Palms offer built in wireless, combined with voice recording (recognition perhaps?!) and an attachable modem (which already exists) for those occasional landline instances (out of coverage area), coupled with a colour screen. Then i'll have everything i need in one unit. without the hassle of lugging around various springboards.

And i truly beleive that Palm has the potential of providing this in the near future. They already have announced built in wireless, they have the colour screen, and GoVox's voice recorder/protective cover is out there. Now let's just get that faster processor!

After all that (sorry) i can see how a Palm might be better than a Visor and i agree with most of the other posts in saying that a good analysis of what you need will guide you to the proper device. They're all cool when it comes down to it! (even the PocketPC GASP! )

Posted by yucca on 06-07-2000 07:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BEER_LUVER:
[snip] I realize that the palm os is 3.5 or something and the visors is 3.1......does that make a big difference? [snip]

Improvements you get w/ v3.3:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>IR HotSync (including network IR HotSyncs - which probably only matters to those of us trying to manage a fleet of PDAs)
4-bit grayscale
IR Comm (for things like cell phones)
Serial Manager enhancements
Login Script enhancements</UL>

Improvements you get w/ v3.5:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>8-bit color/grayscale
better user interface and some built-in apps (e.g. autocompletion in addressbook)</UL>

Note that some of these capabilities can be grafted onto the Visor via a third-party app; but this adds cost and potential compatibility problems. I've personal experience with that last point as it relates to IR . . .

"Killer" abilities that you lose with IIIxe:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>No backup module (the more mobile you are, the more killer this is)
No USB</UL>

The more mobile you are, the greater the advantages of the Visor due to the size/weight/ease-of-install advantages of Springboard modules vs. Palm add-ons. This assumes that you can wait for the necessary Springboard modules to ship. However, I am increasingly pessimistic that Springboard modules are going to be both compatible and relevant with the next generation of StrongARM based Palm OS devices. This does not diminish their utility and value for the present!

[This message has been edited by yucca (edited 06-07-2000).]

Posted by Monkey on 06-09-2000 07:38 PM:

Another difference of 3.5 is that it has improved security features. One thing that has always bugged me about earlier OS is that if a record is marked private, you have to enable showing of private records, just to know that the private record exists. Although I have not got a chance to check it out yet (spending all of my time with the visor ), OS 3.5 is supposed to let you see the record, just not the details when it is marked private

Posted by BEER_LUVER on 06-10-2000 08:13 AM:

I am a little dissapointed that the Visor deluxe has an earlier os and cant be upgraded. But I guess that for now it does'nt really matter.

Thanks for the help......now I gotta go find some applications, or maybe a case. Anyone try out those keyboards?

Posted by John Nowak on 06-11-2000 11:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by BEER_LUVER:

Thanks for the help......now I gotta go find some applications, or maybe a case. Anyone try out those keyboards?

Yes -- I've got a Stowaway and I'm very happy with it. It's effectively a full sized keyboard that folds up; the only thing I dislike about it is that there's a delay before the key you pressed is represented on screen, which can lead to spelling mistakes.

I hope I didn't spell anything wrong in this post, as that would be ironic.

Posted by BEER_LUVER on 06-11-2000 10:27 PM:

Yeah, I have been looking at those stowaway's. Talking about ironic, My buddy just bought a stowaway right after I posted the question. He is using a palm3xe though.

Has anyone tried the gotype keyboard? It just seems like the stowaway's are so fragile.

Posted by John Nowak on 06-12-2000 10:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by BEER_LUVER:
Has anyone tried the gotype keyboard? It just seems like the stowaway's are so fragile.

I had a GoType for my old Palm. It's a nice piece of equipment; it works well, and is very sturdy. On the down side, the Stowaway is larger when unfolded and (for me) more comfortable to type on.

The Stowaway does look more vulnerable, but I'm not sure if it is. Personally, I'd use the Stowaway if you expect to have flat surfaces to type on; use the GoType if you're taking notes while camping.

Posted by VoxDei on 06-13-2000 12:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak:
I had a GoType for my old Palm. It's a nice piece of equipment; it works well, and is very sturdy. On the down side, the Stowaway is larger when unfolded and (for me) more comfortable to type on.

I had intended to seek out a StowAway and was able to test the GoType before I decided. I honestly don't see how people get used to the cramped keyboard! In the minute or so I was trying it, I simply couldn't get my hands "seated" properly to type the way I wanted. I guess people do get used to it, but it seems to me that this is a BIG "con" about this keyboard.

quote:

The Stowaway does look more vulnerable, but I'm not sure if it is. Personally, I'd use the Stowaway if you expect to have flat surfaces to type on; use the GoType if you're taking notes while camping.

I've used the StowAway almost every day now for a couple of weeks and I have no more concern about its vulnerability than I do my Visor. Obviously I'm careful with it, and I have to be no more so with the keyboard. I've used it at meetings where we sit at a table and where we're just sitting in a circle. At the latter I've just taken a book, or something else handy, and set the StowAway on that, no problem. Depending on how you type, it's even possible to use it without center support, it's just trickier. I find that I can do it, but that it slows down my typing.

Let me just get a word in about the Palm/Visor comparison, too. Now that I carry around the 8 meg springboard, I'm amazed at the flexibility of the Visor. When I talk to my Palm friends about what we've got access to on our machines they can't believe how much space I've got...you simply can't have 16 meg on a Palm no matter what!

While the use of Springboards depends entirely on personal preference, I can't see that there is any comparison between the flexibility of the Visor vs the Palm. Combine that with the ease and flexibility of the Backup module and I have to believe that the Visor is clearly and somewhat quietly a better value. It provides more options without any signifcant drawbacks.

Once I've purchased a modem I'll have a $600 pocket-sized computer w/keyboard with 16 mb of storage that includes fast and secure backup capabilities and internet access. I'm not finding that in any Palm combination!

[This message has been edited by VoxDei (edited 06-13-2000).]

Posted by John Nowak on 06-13-2000 08:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by VoxDei:
I've used the StowAway almost every day now for a couple of weeks and I have no more concern about its vulnerability than I do my Visor.

That's reasonable, but personally I'm paranoid. There this part of me that sees a hinge on a $100 piece of equipment and sternly proclaims, "Thou Shalt Not Bend."

quote:

Let me just get a word in about the Palm/Visor comparison, too. Now that I carry around the 8 meg springboard, I'm amazed at the flexibility of the Visor.

Coming after the Stowaway bit, I had this mental image of you bending the Visor like taffy...

Posted by VoxDei on 06-13-2000 08:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by John Nowak:
Coming after the Stowaway bit, I had this mental image of you bending the Visor like taffy...

OK, you've got the mental image...now, just hold on and concentrate...look deeply into your Visor...know that it is not solid...what you see is only an illusion...see your Visor bending...see your Visor bending...

Posted by John Nowak on 06-13-2000 11:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by VoxDei:
OK, you've got the mental image...now, just hold on and concentrate...look deeply into your Visor...know that it is not solid...what you see is only an illusion...see your Visor bending...see your Visor bending...

My God, it works! My visor is bending and -- wait, that was the visor on my hat. Sorry.

Posted by BEER_LUVER on 06-14-2000 10:24 AM:

Looks like I am gonna have to roll with the Stowaway keyboard. No doubt about the fact that with a 8 meg springboard, keyboard and modem, you got yourself one powerfull PORTABLE piece of equipment. I was considering getting a laptop, but I cant imaging carrying around so much bulk. Now I basically have everything in a visor that I would have wanted in a laptop.

I am glad I got a visor deluxe after all.

Posted by John Nowak on 06-14-2000 11:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by BEER_LUVER:
Now I basically have everything in a visor that I would have wanted in a laptop.

I am glad I got a visor deluxe after all.

To be fair, you can get most of that from modified Palm devices as well. But yeah -- the only thing I really need in a laptop is the ability to edit Office documents without blowing the format.

Posted by Mark Squires on 06-14-2000 02:19 PM:

You'll be happy with either. They are both good products. Your friend's dissing the Visor is senseless. It is more a question of tweaks and comparisons. --Batteries--Springboard--Price--OS--Ergonomics

When the V deluxe came out it offered a bargain price for 8 megs of RAM and a technological innovation in the Springboard.

Palm has scrambled to meet the pricing, but at the time it seemed to me buying a Visor rather than an 8 meg Palm V was a no brainer. It was almost half the price, and had a springboard module. The worry-free, simple backup capability alone is and was enough to make me buy the Visor and keep doing so. Depending on how you use the unit, it may not be as important to you...but do you ever take long vacations? What do you do if you have to change batteries and drop one? And that raised another issue. The then-comparable Palm would have been the V. I hated the idea of recharging batteries in the cradle. I travel a lot. You can get triple A batteries anywhere.

On the other hand, I loved the Palm V's ergonomics, and sleek look and feel. Palm was also clearly ahead in wireless stuff (which to date I find cumbersome, not terribly useful and not worth my effort. When it gets simpler and actually lets me access my current email accounts without a lot of bother and cost, it will be a big selling point to me.)

For me, still, ancient history (like 6 months ago) aside, I would buy the visor every time just for the backup module and other springboard capabilities.

P.s...someone else answered this, but I do like the enhanced datebook, and USB too

[This message has been edited by Mark Squires (edited 06-14-2000).]

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