VisorCentral.com - RIP - My First Visor - Replacement Suggestions?

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-- RIP - My First Visor - Replacement Suggestions? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=15129)

Posted by dick-richardson on 05-31-2001 09:28 AM:

Re: Well...

God forgive me for my inability to let idiocy slide.

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
...But for the money, you're better off with the Platinum for the fact that all of your old goodies will run on it. (Keyboard, etc.) Lets be honest. The Edge isn't a $150.00 better than the Platinum.

But you feel the m500 is worth $200 more than the m105? Aren't you a little young to be drinking as much alcohol as would take to have that statement make sense?

quote:
(more inane m500 laud and price quoting)...I've also heard Omnisky WILL run on a VDX, minus a few extra features.

From here? That's already been commented on, but thanks for the rehash.

quote:
If you hate the Silver of the Plat, get an ICE Deluxe.

As opposed to just sending in $85 for a new or refurbished unit? How does that make sense?

quote:
My "secret recipe" which I have bragged endlessly about, has supposedly gotten my VDX up to 51mhz at no additional cost from my wallet. That little thing hauls!

Is that anything similar to your "secret knowledge" about everything from springboard development to Palm's intentions with their handhelds? And you got it that fast for free! Wow! Did Hawkins build a device just for you?

quote:
This also goes to prove my point that Flash Memory IS a necessity on Visors.

How? If anything, the fact that one of your arguments for flash RAM was that you couldn't get a free OmniSky modem with a service contract because it didn't work on the deluxe and solo, makes your position that flash RAM is even less of a necessity than you'd like to believe.

quote:
And the Edge is... dissapointingly... a Plastic handheld, with two aluminum overlays. C'mon Handspring... why not all Titanium!?!??

According to? Have you opened an edge? Would you like some pictures?

Do you feel stupid?

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by PastaGrrrl on 05-31-2001 02:28 PM:

quote:
But you feel the m500 is worth $200 more than the m105?

Yes, because the m105 is ugly as hell.

__________________
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P.S. I feel at home with geeks like you.

Posted by septimus on 05-31-2001 03:05 PM:

Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
According to? Have you opened an edge? Would you like some pictures?

Do you feel stupid?

<<Handspring rep lurking on the boards quietly checks off the "Void" box in D-R's warranty registration>>

Actually, thanks for the pictures, d-r. What's that movie I see?

I, too, am about to play the upgrade game, and I'm leaning toward Platinum (unless someone wants to pricematch a prism??). Fiance is sick of her solo, so that's either going to the roommate or to ebay. My Vdx moves down the line, and I get a plat, I think...

I'd say edge, but I love my stowaway too much... Anybody know when that's supposed to come through? I'm still within the 30 day return period on the stowaway, and I could send it packin' if I knew I wouldn't be without a keyboard for too long...

What's people's take: Plat or Edge?

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Posted by Toby on 05-31-2001 03:29 PM:

Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
[...] M500, which is all-aluminum [...]

No, it's not. The front plate is aluminum. That's it. The M505 is 'all-aluminum' in the same way that the Edge is. The Edge's plastic 'gasket' is slightly thicker, but they're functionally the same (aluminum front and back plates with a plastic gasket).

quote:
And the Edge is... dissapointingly... a Plastic handheld, with two aluminum overlays.

No more than the M505 is, and no more than the M500 is a plastic handheld with an aluminum overlaid faceplate. As usual, you 'prove' your points with fabrications and poor information.

quote:
C'mon Handspring... why not all Titanium!?!??

Because then it would be even more expensive.

Posted by Toby on 05-31-2001 03:35 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
I'd say edge, but I love my stowaway too much... Anybody know when that's supposed to come through?

The rumor mill says September or October.

quote:
I'm still within the 30 day return period on the stowaway, and I could send it packin' if I knew I wouldn't be without a keyboard for too long...

Ultimately a keyboard is a convenience for me, not a necessity (my wife didn't mind getting mine either). I'll get one when it's available, but I can wait a few months (although I don't see what should be taking them that long to retool - unless the Edge Stowaway will be silver anodized aluminum too

quote:
What's people's take: Plat or Edge?

My take would be the Edge, but that's more because of the added durability of the aluminum case. I carry mine in my front pocket, and I think that contributed to the case cracking on my Ice VDxs, so I can't see that a Platinum would fare much better for me. If the size and durability isn't an issue for you, then the Platinum's cheaper price is hard to ignore.

Posted by septimus on 05-31-2001 03:39 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
My take would be the Edge, but that's more because of the added durability of the aluminum case. I carry mine in my front pocket, and I think that contributed to the case cracking on my Ice VDxs, so I can't see that a Platinum would fare much better for me. If the size and durability isn't an issue for you, then the Platinum's cheaper price is hard to ignore.

That's the rub. The cheaper price is huge, but I know that I would be better off with the edge so long as I could get a kb for it... In the end, I'm afraid that I'd upgrade to the plat, and then upgrade again to the edge, and end up paying more than if I just bit the bullet now...

I do find that I'm starting to leave the Vdx behind, it's not the dream PDA. Boy, I thought spending the extra 150 or so to upgrade to the plat was tough, now it looks like I'm gunning for the edge...

I'm going to email thinkoutside and see if they can give me an answer.

__________________
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Posted by bblue on 05-31-2001 04:48 PM:

Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
God forgive me for my inability to let idiocy slide.

*sigh*
But you feel the m500 is worth $200 more than the m105? Aren't you a little young to be drinking as much alcohol as would take to have that statement make sense?
Absolutely. I think the M105 is junk. For a better case, better form factor, expandability, larger screen, better quality casing, more features, flash memory, upgradeability, and a newer design. I see nothing wrong with that.

(Now is it $200.00 better than my IIIxe.... hmmm...)

From here? That's already been commented on, but thanks for the rehash.

It's a reply to my good friend bkbk's post.

As opposed to just sending in $85 for a new or refurbished unit? How does that make sense?

Because this person mentioned earlier they would like ANOTHER Visor, as well as sending theirs in.

Is that anything similar to your "secret knowledge" about everything from springboard development to Palm's intentions with their handhelds? And you got it that fast for free! Wow! Did Hawkins build a device just for you?

Absolutely. *sigh*

How? If anything, the fact that one of your arguments for flash RAM was that you couldn't get a free OmniSky modem with a service contract because it didn't work on the deluxe and solo, makes your position that flash RAM is even less of a necessity than you'd like to believe.

It doesn't work, because you cannot upgrade the O.S. Flash RAM lets you upgrade the O.S. Therefore, if you had Flash RAM, you could upgrade the O.S. and run Omnisky normally.

According to? Have you opened an edge? Would you like some pictures?

Do you feel stupid?

No, I don't feel stupid.
I feel like I'll be back in therapy at the rate this is going. The glare from your photos kept me from being able to make out the detail, but from what I saw, you had a plastic body, with aluminum facsimiles.

Also, the M500 unit I held in Micro-Center did NOT have a Plastic back to it. It was all-aluminum, all the way around. The Vx series DID have a plastic back on it, but not the M500. From my observations, at least. Their damn security stuff got in the way.

--

Still, I think you're better off with a deluxe or plat, since there IS NO KEYBOARD for the Edge. I find my keyboard a necessity for writing anything longer than a sentence. The Edge IS better than a Platinum in many ways, but if you're going to be keeping your old Visor, you may as well get something that will run the same accessories.

And besides, you're better off paying $50.00 more for a Prism when you get into that price range.

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by bblue on 05-31-2001 05:00 PM:

Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

No, it's not. The front plate is aluminum. That's it. The M505 is 'all-aluminum' in the same way that the Edge is. The Edge's plastic 'gasket' is slightly thicker, but they're functionally the same (aluminum front and back plates with a plastic gasket).

ok

No more than the M505 is, and no more than the M500 is a plastic handheld with an aluminum overlaid faceplate. As usual, you 'prove' your points with fabrications and poor information.

Thanks for identifying a pattern.

Because then it would be even more expensive.

Handspring's Profit Margins on the Edge are most likely ridiculously thick. After removing the Springboard cover from the DLX in CompUSA , and comparing it to the Edge, I was quite surprised at how little effort it would take to re-arrange the Visor's innards into the Edge form factor.

Developing the new connectors was probably were probably 80% of the development costs. The rest was just re-arranging everything more efficiently. Compared the the M500, which is much MUCH smaller, AND houses the stylus, AND has an all-new SD expansion, my theory is that Palm is making far less on the M500 than HS is on the Edge.

Once again, I could be wrong, but remove the back cover of your Springboard slot, and you'll know what I mean. Practically everything below it is the Springboard card & the batteries.

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by septimus on 05-31-2001 05:04 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
Therefore, if you had Flash RAM, you could upgrade the O.S. and run Omnisky normally

I had thought that OmniSky didn't run on the VDX because so many of them were improperly RF shielded...

quote:
And besides, you're better off paying $50.00 more for a Prism when you get into that price range

Yeah, I thought of that, and am tempted by the color. But I don't feel the need for it as much as I do for speed & maybe a form factor improvement.

I do have a while to think about it. The stowaway gift came from Target, which has a 90 day return policy. Maybe by then there'll be one for the edge...

Thanks for the advice & thoughts, keep 'em coming.

quote:
from what I saw, you had a plastic body, with aluminum facsimiles.

Exactly what are you looking for when you demand an all-metal case? Every Handheld in existence has got plastic inside it, holding it together. The Edge just happens to allow that plastic to show up on the outer rim, improving grip and allowing for easier add-ons. If you open up the M series or the V series, you'll find plastic. If you're unhappy with the plastic rim, that's one thing, but the Edge is anodized aluminum.

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Posted by Toby on 05-31-2001 05:09 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
I feel like I'll be back in therapy at the rate this is going.

Find a new therapist then. The first one didn't seem to do a proper job.

quote:
The glare from your photos kept me from being able to make out the detail, but from what I saw, you had a plastic body, with aluminum facsimiles.

You obviously need to get your eyes checked as well. It's as aluminum of a body as the M505, and moreso than the M500.

quote:
Also, the M500 unit I held in Micro-Center did NOT have a Plastic back to it.

It was the raw circuitboard?

quote:
It was all-aluminum, all the way around.

Sorry, but your observational skills seem lacking, so I won't take your word for it. The back of the M500s have been reported in _many_ places as being plastic. The one that I purchased and evaluated for a couple weeks was definitely plastic as well.

quote:
The Vx series DID have a plastic back on it, but not the M500.

I don't have access to a Vx at the moment, but I'm 99.999999% sure you've got that exactly backwards.

quote:
From my observations, at least.

Therein lies the rub. Your observations are lacking. Don't take my word for it, though...Read.

quote:
Their damn security stuff got in the way.

I guess that's the difference. I've evaluated a Vx and M500 in real life.

Posted by bblue on 05-31-2001 05:18 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by Toby

Find a new therapist then. The first one didn't seem to do a proper job.

You obviously need to get your eyes checked as well. It's as aluminum of a body as the M505, and moreso than the M500.

Technically speaking, you're probably like. But it looks like a plastic handheld with alumnium slapped onto it.

It was the raw circuitboard?

You're quite funny.

Sorry, but your observational skills seem lacking, so I won't take your word for it. The back of the M500s have been reported in _many_ places as being plastic. The one that I purchased and evaluated for a couple weeks was definitely plastic as well.

I have read it, but when I saw it, I seemed to have been fooled.

I don't have access to a Vx at the moment, but I'm 99.999999% sure you've got that exactly backwards.

Therein lies the rub. Your observations are lacking. Don't take my word for it, though...Read.

Did already

I guess that's the difference. I've evaluated a Vx and M500 in real life.

Unless there is a video game where you evaluate these, I'm pretty sure everyone did.

I know what you mean.

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by bblue on 05-31-2001 05:24 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn

I had thought that OmniSky didn't run on the VDX because so many of them were improperly RF shielded...

Nope... it's the OS....

Yeah, I thought of that, and am tempted by the color. But I don't feel the need for it as much as I do for speed & maybe a form factor improvement.
[/b]
Well, you'd get the speed... but the Form factor's something else. If you use a Springboard you won't notice a difference...

I do have a while to think about it. The stowaway gift came from Target, which has a 90 day return policy. Maybe by then there'll be one for the edge...

Thanks for the advice & thoughts, keep 'em coming.

Exactly what are you looking for when you demand an all-metal case? Every Handheld in existence has got plastic inside it, holding it together. The Edge just happens to allow that plastic to show up on the outer rim, improving grip and allowing for easier add-ons. If you open up the M series or the V series, you'll find plastic. If you're unhappy with the plastic rim, that's one thing, but the Edge is anodized aluminum. [/B]

[/b]
Personally, I want a PDA with the build integrity of the PowerBook G4. The closest yet, is the M505, which can now be purchased within $20.00 of the Edge.

I was dissapointed by the "Alumnium slapped on plastic" look of the Edge. For $400.00 , I expect more. I don't mind a Plastic frame, but adding two aluminum panels simply gives it the "Hyundai" feel.

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by dick-richardson on 05-31-2001 05:31 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by dietrichbohn
<<Handspring rep lurking on the boards quietly checks off the "Void" box in D-R's warranty registration>>

lol!

quote:
Actually, thanks for the pictures, d-r. What's that movie I see?

It's Independence Day.

quote:
What's people's take: Plat or Edge?

Edge. Durability, size, one-handed address lookup, etc. make the $150 worth it in my mind. Two falls/drops/bumps/taps/raps/etc. that just dent the cover mean you saved $170. I've been there and back with mine already.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 05-31-2001 05:32 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Well...

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
Thanks for identifying a pattern.

Don't bother thanking me (even sarcastically). Fix the problem.

quote:
Handspring's Profit Margins on the Edge are most likely ridiculously thick.

Who cares? If the Edge fits someone's needs/wants and budget, then why should they be concerned how much profit Handspring makes? If you don't want to pay the price they're asking, then don't. Trying to suggest that profit margin should be a mitigating factor to a consumer is a bit daft.

quote:
After removing the Springboard cover from the DLX in CompUSA , and comparing it to the Edge, I was quite surprised at how little effort it would take to re-arrange the Visor's innards into the Edge form factor.

Except that the innards aren't the same, but you can't tell that in CompUSA because it would require taking them both apart.

quote:
Developing the new connectors was probably were probably 80% of the development costs.

Upon what do you base this WAG?

quote:
The rest was just re-arranging everything more efficiently.

Same question. BTW, were you making this comparison with a _Platinum_, you might have the beginnings of a rational argument, but considering that you used a Deluxe, it suggests either cluelessness or willful misrepresentation.

quote:
Compared the the M500, which is much MUCH smaller, AND houses the stylus, AND has an all-new SD expansion, my theory is that Palm is making far less on the M500 than HS is on the Edge.

So what?

quote:
Once again, I could be wrong, but remove the back cover of your Springboard slot, and you'll know what I mean.

I've removed more than the slot cover on a VDx, and I still think you're off base.

quote:
Practically everything below it is the Springboard card & the batteries.

The memory card is there too.

Posted by septimus on 05-31-2001 05:38 PM:

Ok, I'm convinced. Edge it is. Now... who wants to tell the Mrs?

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Posted by Toby on 05-31-2001 05:46 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well...

If you're not going to bother quoting properly, it would make more sense to just not do it.

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
Technically speaking, you're probably like.

Objectively speaking, it's the only way to look at it. Subectivity usually doesn't serve much purpose other than to incite problems.

quote:
But it looks like a plastic handheld with alumnium slapped onto it.

Looks just fine to me, but the same argument could be made about the Palms (although I still think it's a silly argument to advance).

quote:
You're quite funny.

If the one you looked at didn't have a plastic back, that's about the only option.

quote:
I have read it, but when I saw it, I seemed to have been fooled.

I doubt that it's that difficult.

quote:
Did already

And yet you still make stupid statements despite significant evidence to the contrary?

quote:
Unless there is a video game where you evaluate these, I'm pretty sure everyone did.
I know what you mean.

No, I doubt that you do. I mean that I've purchased them and actually used them for at least a couple of weeks. I'm not making my statement based on looking at them in a store (which is why I've never made more than passing remarks about the M505s since that's the only time I've tried them).

Posted by dick-richardson on 05-31-2001 06:04 PM:

bblue, you've spread your asininity across too many threads to try and quote them all.

My last comment about flash RAM to you: stop *****ing and buy Palm. If you can't stand not having greyscale support and or the full feature set with Onmisky for your deluxe, eBay the damn thing quit whining. It may work with your parents, but it's not going to work with Handspring.

About edge construction: so let me get this straight. You bash the hell out of the edge because it's just a plastic pda with aluminum screwed on (information you obviously just pulled out of your ass), and when you're proven wrong you bash the hell out of it because it's "built like a Hyundai."

PDA built with the integrity of the G4: WRT durability, I doubt the edge can be beat.

I'm glad bkbk is setting you straight on the ways of the world. As I said before, you two make a lovely couple.

All in all, bblue, you're coming close to being the first person nominated to my "ignore" list...

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by bblue on 05-31-2001 06:49 PM:

Not again... *sigh*

I guess I'll close with this. This is the one thing I wanted to say.

The fact that Profit margins are thicker for the Edge means that you're paying too much for it. It probably means, that you're getting less PDA in many ways than one with a thinner margin. Handspring probably did NOT spend as much as Palm in developing the Edge. A small portion of it comes from the fact they didn't really have to, but it's obvious Palm tried a little harder, with the miniscule form factor, all-new expansion & cradle development, and an all-new chip for Palm. (They had to.)

Also, I cannot see through Platinums, and I can't take em apart... although I'm sure CompUSA would not mind. But I assume that the faster chip didn't result in a major size increase.

Also Toby, I was right! I did know what you meant!
---

Ok, I'm done with that.

For now, I'm pulling up my "Apple users shield" (ok, I made it up..... ish...) No mac user is allowed to flame another mac user. I'll use this while I go back into therapy with the mods.

I'm doing this again because of the "ad hominem" attacks. Do I really have to cite them? I don't understand why in a debate over the Platinum vs. Edge that the first points made are about me. And that's simply the tip of the problem. I don't want to go into it. You may hate the way I post, you may hate how I post it, or you may hate how I don't give a works cited for every point I make. Learn to live with it, and I'll probably be able to spend more time backing up my posts than having to type stuff like this. If not, I end up in this garbage.

Lets make a deal. I'll go back into therapy, and you put me on your ignore list or petition my account to be terminated on your own, Please! I'd rather be ignored than have to go through these.

If you wanna discuss which is better, Platinum /OR/ Edge, go ahead. But leave me outta this post from now on.
--------

__________________
"Sorry about the whole thing about losing your life savings, but that Palmpilot is property of Enron, so please give it back"

Posted by Toby on 05-31-2001 07:12 PM:

Re: Not again... *sigh*

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
The fact that Profit margins are thicker for the Edge means that you're paying too much for it.

Nope. There is no objective definition of "paying too much" for something. If you feel it's not worth the money, it's not. If you feel it is, it is.

quote:
It probably means, that you're getting less PDA in many ways than one with a thinner margin.

Hogwash.

quote:
Handspring probably did NOT spend as much as Palm in developing the Edge.

So what? If it meets the needs of the people that decide to buy it, they spent enough.

quote:
A small portion of it comes from the fact they didn't really have to, but it's obvious Palm tried a little harder,

Subjective opinion.

quote:
with the miniscule form factor,

Dubious subjective opinion.

quote:
all-new expansion & cradle development,

The Edge has that too.

quote:
and an all-new chip for Palm. (They had to.)

Which 'all-new chip'?

quote:
Also, I cannot see through Platinums, and I can't take em apart... although I'm sure CompUSA would not mind. But I assume that the faster chip didn't result in a major size increase.

It didn't, but it did require some reworking of the board design when they went from the Deluxe design to the Platinum design. That's exactly the point, though. You make wild-assed guesses based on little to no information.

quote:
Ok, I'm done with that.

No, it would be better if you were done with this asinine posturing and attitude.

quote:
I'm doing this again because of the "ad hominem" attacks.

Perhaps if you provided a little more basis to your positions, people would take you more seriously.

quote:
Do I really have to cite them? I don't understand why in a debate over the Platinum vs. Edge that the first points made are about me.

What don't you understand? When you make silly statements with little to no basis in reality despite repeated opportunities to do otherwise, you're asking for trouble. Not everyone is going to be kind about it.

quote:
And that's simply the tip of the problem. I don't want to go into it. You may hate the way I post, you may hate how I post it, or you may hate how I don't give a works cited for every point I make. Learn to live with it, and I'll probably be able to spend more time backing up my posts than having to type stuff like this. If not, I end up in this garbage.

No, the burden is upon _you_ to change your style of posting. If you didn't spend the time coming up with a cogent argument in the first place, it's ludicrous for others to accept that you would if others wouldn't call you on your other 'arguments'. Spend the time formulating your arguments in the first place, and you won't have to bother with 'this garbage'.

quote:
Lets make a deal. I'll go back into therapy, and you put me on your ignore list or petition my account to be terminated on your own, Please! I'd rather be ignored than have to go through these.

No deal. I'm not going to possibly lose the interesting comments of others due to ignoring you, and I have no desire to play 'tattletale'. You will either change your behavior, or learn to endure the consequences of that behavior.

quote:
If you wanna discuss which is better, Platinum /OR/ Edge, go ahead. But leave me outta this post from now on.

No one pulled you into it in the first place. You joined in of your own free will.

Posted by dick-richardson on 05-31-2001 07:13 PM:

Re: Not again... *sigh*

quote:
Originally posted by bblue
...You may hate the way I post, you may hate how I post it, or you may hate how I don't give a works cited for every point I make...

The problem comes from making statements that you would have no knowledge of. Instead of complaining how unfair the world is, why not back up your argument WHEN YOU POST THEM!. Another part of the irritation comes in when you change arguments in mid-stream (a la your edge construction stance) just for the sake of seeing your name on the side.

quote:
If you wanna discuss which is better, Platinum /OR/ Edge, go ahead. But leave me outta this post from now on.
--------

No dice, sorry. You sure didn't need to spend the amount of time it took you to post complaining that we're causing all these problems for you, when you could have as easily spent the time backing up your assertions and sticking with an argument and solving your problems yourself.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

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