VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Springboard Modules (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10)
-- MMC Compatibility Between Springboards (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=5438)

It seems as though MMC (MultiMedia Cards) as a storage medium is gaining a lot of support throughout the portable electronic device industry, and is gaining acceptance among manufacturers of some announced springboards such as the Geode (from Geodiscovery) and the MiniJam (Innogear).

From what I've seen, both devices will allow the MMC memory to be used for storing program files, database (pdb) files, etc. Assuming this is the case, it would be a natural extension to have compatibility between the cards such that MMC modules could be used in this capacity within ANY Springboard. This would allow an MMC (and the information stored in it) to move between Springboard devices instead of requiring that specific Springboard module to be plugged in the Visor whenever the data is needed.

Does anyone know if this is currently planned by any of the manufacturers? Or is it something that would happen anyway by default, as a result of standardization in the design of the MMC modules?

If not currently planned, would Geodiscovery and Innogear be willing to consider this (are either of you reading this thread)?

Here's another request for an interested manufacturer... How about a Springboard that serves only one function -- to house and utilize MMCs? Imagine 64 MB of storage on a Springboard... at a much lower price than current flash ROM solutions!

Would love to hear some feedback on this issue. Thanks!

- Kevin

I think new versions of the Visor should take MMC cards to extend the memory in the base unit, leaving the springboard slot free for other functions.

Have you seen Innogear's latest product sheet for the MiniJam? It will allow data storage on the MMC card memory that is not taken up by music!

Wow!

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin Culp:
It seems as though MMC (MultiMedia Cards) as a storage medium is gaining a lot of support throughout the portable electronic device industry, and is gaining acceptance among manufacturers of some announced springboards such as the Geode (from Geodiscovery) and the MiniJam (Innogear).

From what I've seen, both devices will allow the MMC memory to be used for storing program files, database (pdb) files, etc. Assuming this is the case, it would be a natural extension to have compatibility between the cards such that MMC modules could be used in this capacity within ANY Springboard. This would allow an MMC (and the information stored in it) to move between Springboard devices instead of requiring that specific Springboard module to be plugged in the Visor whenever the data is needed.

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Your ideas and comments are very good here. There is some standardization with MMC, but it's rather hit or miss still. Not all camera companies, MP3 players, etc..., use the same format today.

We will check with GeoDiscovery to see if we are compatible today, or if we can work towards that goal. Very good idea!

We think MiniJam will make a great storage device, and when you look at the cost of approximately $100 for a MiniJam without any MMC, it is an attractivly priced "MMC Reader/Writer" even if used just for the purpose of storing large Palm files (we have the drag and drop USB software on the PC to transfer files to MiniJam MMC). We are planning on a single purpose/smaller form factor/lower cost product later this year (but consider this: It might not cost much more to get full MP3 playback!) The main thing is that we will do a MMC reader/writer in a smaller form factor...there is not a huge cost savings between MiniJam (with no MMC) and a single purpose MMC Reader/Writer module (requires similar hardware).

The main point here is that we can do a reader/writer, so I would like to hear if there is a real demand for dedicated module and what type of files would users plan on storing

Remember that in addition to 32 megabyte sizes, MMC is available in 2,4,8, and 16 megabyte sizes.

Lastly, a small disclaimer here...the ability to write Palm apps and database files to the MMC on MiniJam is all a software issue...our hardware supports this. Our first priority is to support MP3/Digital Audio files. We will start ship with our without full Palm app file transfer support and provide free upgrades as they become available. We have a high demand to get our MP3 player to the market, so we do not want to delay a product launch due to a feature that end users can get later with a software upgrade.

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Bob Fullerton
InnoGear Inc.

[This message has been edited by innogear (edited 05-10-2000).]

Innogear- I think that a good idea might be to have all of your upcoming spring boards mmc compatible. Some people ask the question of whether two springboards can be accessed at one time. Im thinking that you can be listening to your music and saving files to the same memory card. But when you remove the MP3 player, you can remove the mmc card and place it in the six pac or other upcoming multi-purpose springboards. That would allow the same files accessed with the mmc card that goes with the mp3 player, to be accessed when another springboard is in the slot. Also, you might add a permanent mp3 program to install on the palm memory, which would allow you to edit the mp3s on the card when they are in any of your devices and not just the minijam. Just a suggestion, thought it would be a good addition to your product line. Also, the mmc should not just be available within the minijam and sixpack, but your entire product line and future products. It would be a great bonus to your springboards when the springboard market becomes more competitive.

[This message has been edited by skaman35 (edited 05-10-2000).]

We'll talk with Innogear and see what we can work out. We would definitely like to work towards compatibility if at all possible.


Joe Free
Chief Customer Evangelist
GeoDiscovery

I can see a problem with incorporating a MMC slot in all Innogear springboards: price.

The hardware for the MMC slot is probably not super-cheap, and every additional feature in a board raises the MSRP higher. I like the direction they'e going with the low-cost Springboards, although one I haven't seen yet (and would love to see) is a unit that features a boosted IR port (we're talking 20-30 feet) plus some flash RAM or a MMC slot. It would be cheap, give us all a top-mounted IR port, allow long-range beaming (until Bluetooth becomes standard) and also give a little extra RAM.


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"Scalpel"
Atomic Hyrax Games

Joe & Bob,

I'm thrilled to hear that you are interested in working together to achieve compatibility between MMC slots. I think this will help make both of your company's products that much stronger.

Bob, you asked about the types of files your customers may plan to store in the MMC module. In my case, this could be a wide range of files (including executable PRCs) but would most likely be PDB files for use in products such as iSilo and thinkDB, and various image files. In my profession (occupational safety/health and environmental sciences) access to regulations and extensive libraries of chemical hazard information is important, and with the storage space on the Visor I could carry around a ton of useful information.

By the way, it may be too late in the design stage to consider this, but having MMC memory in the SixPack would really be the cat's meow, IMHO...

Thanks again, and we all anxiously await your products!!! ;-)

- Kevin

I would most likely put .pdb and image files. Most likely not .prc

I second Kevin in saying thanks for innogear and geodiscovery wanting to at least talk!! This is great.

I have to admit I'm curious as to why Innogear chose to go with MMC rather than CF II -- It's think that compatability with an IBM Microdrive would be very useful. At roughly one dollar a megabyte, one of those should be able to hold around five hours of music, compared to roughly three dollars per meg of CMM...

While the Microdrive is a great device, I'm sure it would suck the life out of the Visor's batteries before you could get even an hour's worth of music out of it. And I don't think anyone is planning an external battery pack for it. :-)

True, power and heat are a problem, but the Innogear site states that Minijam will ship with a plug and a car adapter will be available. No good for jogging, obviously, but for a plane ride or sitting in the hotel room, it would be pretty nifty to have multiple hours' worth of music instead of a half hour.

I agree with John Nowak, Innogear should look into the CF II because of it versatility. That way the consumer has options of the micro drive or solid state memory.

So if you are worried about power usage (as swendor mentioned) you could get the 32MB solid state CF card(might I add that MMC�s largest memory size is ONLY 32MB, keep in mind that it is very small, physically, which doesn�t leave much room for improvement. Which leads me to the question, Why do you need the memory to be that small? All I will do is loose it).

As for me, I would be interested in the micro drive and make a battery pack (using the external power port on the MiniJam) that would clip on my belt along with my Visor. Like from 2AA batteries, which isn't much for size. At least I have options with CF II!

Let me second (third? fourth?) the kudos to Bob and Joe for maintaining an open dialog with their (potential) customers. As for Bob's question, I think the uses of the MMC storage are as broad as the Flash memory module, but obvious uses are big databases like image files, dictionaries, thesaurus, big text novels or spoken word audio novels, etc.

Interesting discussion...

FYI, I just stumbled across this website. http://www.ams-fl.com/axxpac/e_index.html

I really like this idea!

An owner of a Palm IIIx can buy an 'axxpac' that allows the use of smartmedia-modules in the Palm. As those modules are quite cheap, and almost sold everywhere, I would really like a Springboard that has a slot for such modules.

Innogear: Would it be possible to manufacture such a Springboard for the Visor and how much would it presumably sell for?

later,

mc9

BTW, are MMC's the same as the smartmedia-modules the axxpac and for example, mp3-player and digital cameras are using?
If so, then disregard my post except the link... (sorry, I am not that into the different standards for memory cards and stuff )

[This message has been edited by mc9 (edited 06-12-2000).]

No, Smart Media is not the same as MMC. In total there are pretty much four competing technologies: MMC, Smart Media, Compact Flash, and Memory Stick. Both MMC and Smart Media max out at a certain mb size which is what makes Compact Flash better, but bulkier. I'm not sure if Memory Sticks max out, but I don't think they do.

Smart Media seems to me to be in the lead with Compact FLash following.