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Originally posted by BobbyMike


I won't belabor our decision on the chemo. It was done based on statistics (as was the decision for the masectomy).

The joke about the Lotto was over your head I guess. Gambling is considered a sinful behavior and wouldn't be something I would expect to be rewarded for.

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
I won't belabor our decision on the chemo. It was done based on statistics (as was the decision for the masectomy).

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[...] From your point of view I guess it makes sense, but you would never expect a prayer to be answered either.

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I'm quite aware that you have a deep philosophically difference with me over religion/faith. That's fine. I find it humorous that you consistently will consider anything but a miracle when something does happen.

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Instead of trying to think of all the possible ways to circumvent the diagnosis (DNA checking the samples, what is this Star Trek? )

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you might try an open mind. Oh, wait, that's not logical

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Someone recently said to me that unless someone experiences the miraculous that can't truly understand it when you witness to them about it.

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I'm finding that true. I find it very interesting at how hard people will work to "debunk" the miraculous in order to "help" others.

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How would you explain a dry $100 bill falling to my feet in Georgia during a rainstorm (at a time when I had been praying for a solution to a problem that would require about that much money)? This did happen to me last year.

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I'm quite sure you can't, yet you'll go around and around without considering the miraculous simply because you don't want to believe.

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That's fine Toby, it really is. You're behaving the way most people do, by rejecting anything that doesn't fit into your world view, all the while believing your being logical. All you're doing is limiting your choices/options.

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As to the photos. If my wife grows a new breast, she has already said she'll want to document it (our plastic surgeon wants to also). It may be crass to some, but since we already thought of it I don't think you would be for asking. I don't think it would help, because I believe you would just consider some other explanation for it happening. That's why I joked about you growing one. It's harder to deny a personal experience.

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Toby, thanks for saying all the things I was thinking. Every one of your points is what I would have said.

It's fortunate that you have a history with Bobby and can talk this way without being perceived as an attacker.

I for one was utterly blown away by the Star Trek comment. Talk about denial. I read your suggestion to say that the sample should be DNA matched to make sure the original diagnosis of cancer was correct and there wasnt a mixup. I would have done the same thing. Hospital hacks off my wifes breast and then says there was no evidence of cancer, they'd be double checking and I might just end up owning a hospital. Now if they had said after the procedure "we got it all, there is no reason to worry" that would be different.


Bobby

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Gambling is considered a sinful behavior

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__________________
Hydrogen is not the most plentiful element in the universe....stupidity is.

BobbyMike,

I am glad to hear that your wife is recovering. I am still convinced that something in our diets is causing the cancer. The cancer rights in North America seem to be higher than everywhere else (this is anecdotral not factual. Will have to do some more research at some point).

I for one know how dangerous how breast cancer could be. On of my favoiurite teachers in high school -- who I was very close to, died from it a few years back and she was just in her 50s.

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Originally posted by BobbyMike
Cool, I get a chance to update everybody on my wife's well being and refute the whole "God is dead (or was never here in the first place) business".

First off, for those of you who don't know, my wife was diagnosed with three different cancers in her left breast last year.

First Diagnosis (this was the lumpectomy)
Case # S03-13781

1. LEFT NIPPLE BIOPSY:
Nuclear grade 3 duct carcinoma in-situ involving large duct of nipple (first cancer) and associated Paget's disease (second cancer) present.

2. LEFT BREAST MASS:
Infiltrating duct carcinoma, grade 3 (tubule formation 3/3, nuclear pleomorphism 3/3, mitotic activity 3/3), 1.9 cm. Lymphatic space invasion present.
Tumor extends close, less than 1 mm, to medial margin, probably within lymphatics.
Nuclear grade 3 duct carcinoma in-situ with solid patterning, comedo necrosis and associated microcalcification.
DCIS (thats the first listed cancer) extends close, less than 1 mm, to the superior margin.
No extensive insitu component identified.
ER/PR and Her-2/neu requested.

Lisle A. Eaton, Jr., MD
Document reviewed and electronically signed by LAE

Based on this report, a masectomy was advised, with no other option. They had removed the 1.9 mm aggressive tumor, but had no clear margin around it and the associated Paget's (a type of cancer that attacks the nipple) made them very nervous. There is no known cure for Paget's except radical surgery (complete removal through surgery).
We repeatedly pushed them on this, asking if anyone had ever reported any kind of spontaneous healing, or reversal, of this kind of cancer. They (the doctors and nurses) said no. Our own research also made us believe there was no medical option but surgery (with following chemo, non-hormone responsive).
We prayed, had our friends pray, had our church pray, asked our aquaintances to pray, had strangers pray, and even had friends have their friends pray for Elizabeths' complete recovery.

The day of the surgery she had second thoughts., but decided to go through with it because the scarring on her nipple made us believe she still had the Paget's (after all, no one had ever been cured of it).

This is the biopsy of the tissue they removed from her (basically her entire left breast).

Second Diagnosis:
Case # S04-982

BREAST, LEFT, MASECTOMY:
Foci of residual nuclear grade 3 ductal carcinoma in-situ, involving the nipple. (basically the first cancer listed on the first pathology report was receeding by itself to a barely observable level)
No residual infiltrating ductal carcinoma present. (which was expected as they had removed the tumor during the lumpectomy)
Inked deep resection margin negative for tumor.
Negative skin. ( Where's the Paget's?)
Eight axillary lymph nodes negative for tumor (0/8)

Beiqing Liu, MD
Document reviewed and electronically signed by BL

Because they can't explain how the cancer disappeared, they recommended that she go through chemo anyway.

We laughed and said we'd think about it.

(all of this was experienced at St. Peter's Hospital in Albany, NY, an excellent world-class facility that we would recommend to anyone)

Based on your believe this "miracle" could be the direct result of:



Now we're praying for a complete regeneration of her breast.

Why not?

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__________________
My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?

Why is God a he and not a she? At this point there is no way to prove that God exists or does not exist. That is why we have faith.

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Originally posted by BobbyMike


As to why He would heal my wife and not others? How the heck should I know? He's God, I'm not. I'm not supposed to understand him. I don't believe it's because He loves us more, or because we have less sin in our lives, or because we go to church more. I'm just grateful.

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__________________
My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?

I ahve had numerous people who thinks that gambling is sin and buying stocks is OK. They are both gambling to me. Ask the millione of people who lost mullah due to the Enron collaps and IMCline controversy.

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Originally posted by clulup

Why is gambling a sin? I don't gamble either because I am aware of the fact that on average I will lose money, some of my money will go the the winners and some to the Lotto company. But if grown-ups who are aware of that fact, too, decide to take that risk, what is bad about it? Is it just bad because it is written in a book that it is bad?

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__________________
My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?

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Originally posted by yardie
I ahve had numerous people who thinks that gambling is sin and buying stocks is OK.

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Zoinks!

__________________
The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.

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Originally posted by yardie
I am still convinced that something in our diets is causing the cancer.

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The cancer rights in North America seem to be higher than everywhere else (this is anecdotral not factual. Will have to do some more research at some point).

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Originally posted by yardie
Why is God a he and not a she?

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Just for fun....BUMP

BUMP

Re: Just for fun....BUMP

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Originally posted by K. Cannon
BUMP

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