VisorCentral.com - Palm's dirty little secret

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Visor & Deluxe (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1)
-- Palm's dirty little secret (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=11663)

Posted by DanW on 02-09-2001 03:16 AM:

What would you do if you were Palm Inc. and your competitor was stealing business with cool features?
Look for there weakness, of course. Look for Palm to release a new OS soon, rendering the entire installed base of Visors somewhat obsolete. Then watch as they include an expansion port that is smaller and will generate more support right away because of the huge market share they enjoy. Hmmmm....

No wonder we are hearing rumors about new Visors having flash rom.

Posted by foo fighter on 02-09-2001 03:29 AM:

I hardly think Palm is releasing a new OS (4.0) for the sole purpose of rendering Handspring products obsolete. After all, some of their own products are going to become "obsolete" in the process, such as the Palm M100.

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Posted by homer on 02-09-2001 04:43 AM:

uhh...Palm makes money on EVERY Palm OS device sold.

I doubt that they are looking to squash Handspring.

There seems to be a lot of conspiracy theories floating around these boards lately...

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Posted by yardie on 02-09-2001 05:01 AM:

Nah Man

I think Handspring has reached the point where it is uncrushable. It is now a serious player in the handheld space and is fast becoming a household name.

Besides Handspring is always one step ahead of Palm..When Palm released a 8 bit 256 color device, then up palm and released a 64,000 16 bit unit. Wasn't the Deluxe the first 8MB Palm handheld? The only thing that Palm is ahead with is the OS and that is because they built it themselves.

Posted by foo fighter on 02-09-2001 05:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by homer
uhh...Palm makes money on EVERY Palm OS device sold.

True, but 93-97% of total profits are still generated via hardware sales. Regardless of what margin of revenues Palm gets from OS licensing, the company can NOT afford to be overtaken in sales by its partners.

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Posted by dick-richardson on 02-09-2001 05:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
True, but 93-97% of total profits are still generated via hardware sales. Regardless of what margin of revenues Palm gets from OS licensing, the company can NOT afford to be overtaken in sales by its partners.

Isn't Palm moving away from making money on hardware? I was getting the impression that they were going to be bowing out gracefully as they become more and more like Microsoft (licensing the OS, owning MyPalm, buying out software producers, etc.) so as to be more appealing to investors.

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Posted by foo fighter on 02-09-2001 05:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Isn't Palm moving away from making money on hardware?

Not at all. The new upcoming Palm devices are proof that Palm intends to be the dominant hardware developer. Just wait until you see some of wireless devices coming out later this year. Palm isn't backing out of the hardware biz one bit.

quote:

I was getting the impression that they were going to be bowing out gracefully as they become more and more like Microsoft (licensing the OS, owning MyPalm, buying out software producers, etc.) so as to be more appealing to investors.

Microsoft's wealth is based on high margin desktop/server OS licensing. In short, they make tons of cash selling their OS. Palm on the other hand doesn't have this luxury. The price per OS license is quite low. Palm OS devices would have to number in the hundreds of millions for the company to survive on OS licensing alone. Palm is building a profitable portfolio by playing in both fields: Hardware (Palm devices) and Software (OS license).

At least for now, hardware is Palm's cash cow, and probably will remain so.

[Edited by foo fighter on 02-09-2001 at 12:45 AM]

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Posted by b1lanceman on 02-09-2001 07:25 AM:

Re: Nah Man

quote:
Originally posted by yardie
I think Handspring has reached the point where it is uncrushable. It is now a serious player in the handheld space and is fast becoming a household name.

Besides Handspring is always one step ahead of Palm..When Palm released a 8 bit 256 color device, then up palm and released a 64,000 16 bit unit. Wasn't the Deluxe the first 8MB Palm handheld? The only thing that Palm is ahead with is the OS and that is because they built it themselves.

yeah, but palm has a color device for 120 dollars cheaper than handspring, and i have a couple of friends who said "why pay 300 dollars for a visor platinum when i can get a color palm for only 30 dollars more" and handspring still doesnt have a device with a slim form factor like palmVx or clie. also palm m505 looks like its going to have a slim form factor, an expansion slot, and 16bit color, not to mention flash memory.

Posted by dick-richardson on 02-09-2001 05:51 PM:

Re: Re: Nah Man

quote:
Originally posted by b1lanceman
yeah, but palm has a color device for 120 dollars cheaper than handspring, and i have a couple of friends who said "why pay 300 dollars for a visor platinum when i can get a color palm for only 30 dollars more" and handspring still doesnt have a device with a slim form factor like palmVx or clie. also palm m505 looks like its going to have a slim form factor, an expansion slot, and 16bit color, not to mention flash memory.

There's more to the prism vs. IIIc debate than the fact they both display color. I do think Handspring has been one step ahead of Palm, but that might change with the IIIc's successor. If Palm comes out with a 16-bit color device visible in sunlight with flash memory between $350 - $400 Handspring will have to scramble to get their new products out, or drop the prism's price significantly. It'll be interesting to say the least.

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Posted by Keefer Lucas on 02-09-2001 07:48 PM:

Fight The Color

I really like that both Palm and Handspring have consistently provided products with added processing power and memory but without forcing me to buy a color unit to get the processing power.

I don't need color in my Visor, don't want it and rue the day that its forced down my throat in order to enjoy speed and functionality improvements.

I'm not sure how this relates to this discussuion string; I just hope that through the process of healthy competition we don't end up with feature bloat (aka Windows CE).

Posted by dick-richardson on 02-09-2001 09:44 PM:

I'm sure the IIIxe's successor will be monochrome. It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the platinum.

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Posted by foo fighter on 02-10-2001 03:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I'm sure the IIIxe's successor will be monochrome. It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the platinum.

The Palm III series is slated to be replaced by the M300 line. Supposedly it will consist of the M300 which will sport a standard monochrome display, and the M305 which will have a 16bit (65k) reflective color display (like the iPAQ). Don't know what pricing will be like, but I'm hoping it will stay near the current price of the IIIc.

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Posted by BudPritchard on 02-10-2001 05:39 AM:

Backups!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter, and others that have posted in this thread and other threads. Using Foo's as an example.

The Palm III series is slated to be replaced by the M300 line. Supposedly it will consist of the M300 which will sport a standard monochrome display, and the M305 which will have a 16bit (65k) reflective color display (like the iPAQ). Don't know what pricing will be like, but I'm hoping it will stay near the current price of the IIIc.

[/B]

Basically, these discussions on form factors, better color displays, etc will not sway me to leave the Visor platform.
The main reason is the Visor has the Backup module, others don't. You are still tethered to the Desktop to restore in case of failures requiring a hard reset or if the batteries fail.
With the backup module, I'm back in business no matter where I am. I have spent too much time entering memos, todo's, databases, etc to have to wait until I am at home. Especially on weekend trips.
If Palm and others come up with a flash card and appropriate backup functionality, then I will consider a change. But, the price has to be right. Even the Prism is a budget buster for me.

Posted by foo fighter on 02-10-2001 02:43 PM:

Well Bud...you may get your wish. I hate to tell you this, but the new Palm devices will have SD memory slots in the back. SD is basically a form of MMC memory which is about the size of a postage stamp. In addition, Palm is developing a whole line of attachment modules, ala Springboard, that fit into the SD slot to provide additional functionality. You'll see MP3 players, GPS recievers, scanners, wireless modems, and digital cameras.

[Edited by foo fighter on 02-10-2001 at 09:54 AM]

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Posted by IanP on 02-11-2001 09:49 PM:

anyone notice how news from the handspring corners been pretty quiet of late while the palm rumour mill keeps churning? Yeah the Prism/Platinum were released a while back. Since then not a peep (or have i had my head in the sand?).

Why?

a) The fabled M505 (see foo's post above) has left handspring floundering.
b) This is calm before the storm (so to speak) and Handspring has learnt from the errant ways of innogear (and the rest). Something bigs cooking...

just a thought!

Posted by argent on 02-11-2001 10:18 PM:

Handspring doesn't need to play FUD games. I'm sure there's new more compact Visors coming out, and I'll bet they come out around September, like the original Visor and the Platinum and Prism did. Here's what I'm expecting, two new units with one or more of the following features:

1. Slightly smaller color unit. With a Li-polymer battery they'll be able to build a transflective color unit in standard Visor form factor, replacing the Prism and going back to a single form factor.

2. More memory. I think Handspring will ship the first 16M PalmOS units this year. The existing 8M units will become the new low end, and replace the 2M units in the product line.

3. Multiple ports. They can move the MROM onto the motherboard, and make room for an SD card as well as the Springboard slot, using SD for flash and the Springboard for non-memory expansion.

I don't think Handspring will make a really small form-factor device without a Springboard slot, at least not this year.

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Posted by schaeffe on 02-11-2001 10:55 PM:

I think the real challenge for Handspring is not at the top end of the market but at the bottom. I read yesterday at PalmInfoCenter that Palm has already sold a half-million of the M100s (three times the lifetime sales of the Palm VII, by the way).

I think Handspring has to (a) match Palm's price cut on the IIIxe and (b) market their 2MB Visor more aggressively (which they seem to be doing with their Wal-Mart deal) to compete with the M100.

For every power user drooling over the M505 or praying for the next-generation Visor, there are dozens of newbies who've just caught wind of the handheld revolution, but who aren't ready to plunk down $400-500 on a machine.

When I bought my Visor Deluxe in Nov 99, a big reason was the price. At that time it was one of the least expensive handhelds. I don't think we should lose sight of the price-sensitivity in this market.

Posted by foo fighter on 02-11-2001 11:27 PM:

Don't count Handspring out by any measure. They still have the yet unreleased "Palm V killer" up their sleeve yet. You may also see an assortment of non-Palm based devices from them in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Handspring branded Smart Phone in the coming months.

The Palm M505 and M300 will take the spotlight off the Visor to be sure, but don't mistake that for Handspring's outright defeat. The best is yet to come.

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Posted by dick-richardson on 02-12-2001 06:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
The Palm M505 and M300 will take the spotlight off the Visor to be sure, but don't mistake that for Handspring's outright defeat. The best is yet to come.

I'm excited all ready and I haven't even worn the paint off my Prism! Handspring, why do you have to play with my emotions?

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Posted by Fat_Man on 02-12-2001 07:56 PM:

I believe that whatever new products that Handspring is developing, the new products MUST keep the springboard slot. Handspring's main theme has always been their springboard expansion, so I don't think they will release a product without the slot. This may put a limitation on their next form-factor. I am excited to see what new innovations Handspring are developing in their next generation of Visors.

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