VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
- Off Topic (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=6)
-- War? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=32929)

War?

I can't believe nothing's been said.....

__________________
<a href="http://www.kurtramsauer.com">KurtRamsauer.com</a>

I can't believe it either... especially with this group!

Actually, I'm quite torn with the events of the past couple of days. I'm not an advocate of war and would really like to see a peaceful resolution. On the other hand, if the President feels it must be done, I will support him and all those troops who are in harm's way.

The next few days are going to be very interesting to say the least.

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

It can be a touchy subject thus, perhaps, the low response. Is peace too much to ask?
(But I agree with you, Mark, that in time of crisis we need to support each other regardless of our viewpoint.)

__________________
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
-Mark Twain

The French are one reason.

I believe if the French had not talked about a veto the weight of the UN may had been able to avoid war. I hate to think of the loss of life. That said I support this country and the but kicking we are about to give.

P.S. I won't even french kiss anymore.

war?

..."what is it good for?"...

__________________
Ever feel like the train left while you were busy reading the paper?

Stealth-Mod.

Hoser_back_home said: ..."what is it good for?"...

"Absolutely nothing"

__________________
Jonathan

Re: The French are one reason.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BADFLHT
I believe if the French had not talked about a veto the weight of the UN may had been able to avoid war. I hate to think of the loss of life. That said I support this country and the but kicking we are about to give.

P.S. I won't even french kiss anymore.

---

__________________
I'm a blogger, he's a blogger, wouldn't ya like to be a blogger too.
T-Mo, Cingular 600, and very happy!

I watched the President the other night with an overwhelming feeling of "Lord, I hope we know what we are doing."

But I do agree with the point that if those nations (including and primarily France, no offense Madame Ali) had not taken the "we are going to absolutely veto" stance, there still might have been a chance that the USA could have gracefully accepted more time being given.

Just as I think President Bush probably shouldn't have let himself be talked into taking the absolute position he took, I don't think the other (supposedly) "peace-wanting" countries should have taken the positions that, in the end, backed President Bush into a corner he could not get out of without totally losing credibility of the US.

That being said, I sincerely believe that Saddam is an evil man, with evil intents and actions. I do believe that he has had and does still possess weapons of mass destruction. I believe innocent people have been tortured and killed under his regime.
("Saddam, this country ain't big enough for the two of us.")

But, like MarkEagle said, I'm pretty torn about this situation. I can see the logic in both sides and don't like the absolute of either position.

quote:

---

Originally posted by K. Cannon
I watched the President the other night with an overwhelming feeling of "Lord, I hope we know what we are doing."

---

__________________
<a href="http://www.kurtramsauer.com">KurtRamsauer.com</a>

quote:

---

Originally posted by KRamsauer
[...] That, in short, is my analysis of the pending conflict.

---

Re: Re: The French are one reason.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alli


I find it difficult to believe anyone gives that much credence to the French in the first place that their comments carried that much weight.

By the same token, the French bashing needs to stop. After all, they weren't the only ones insisting they would use their veto power.

---

__________________
<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

quote:

---

Originally posted by KRamsauer
I get the feeling that at least some of us do. I am fairly confident the president does, thus all the talk about sacrifice.

Here's my summary of this war. This war is like the case of a brutal murderer caught on tape but who gets off because of a technicality. A few years later, another brutal murder happens on the other side of town, and the police and prosecutors are so bent on righting the wrong of the past aquittal they do whatever it takes to convict and execute the brutal murderer. Of course they have little or no evidence linking him to the crime for which he is executed.

In that light, it's hard to really agree with anyone. The prosecutors (and thus society) are out of line, but to a large degree the person paying the price deserved nothing more.

That, in short, is my analysis of the pending conflict.

---

__________________
<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

ToolkiT --
Is this the official opinion of VisorCentral? Just curious...

__________________
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
-Mark Twain

quote:

---

Originally posted by m00se
ToolkiT --
Is this the official opinion of VisorCentral? Just curious...

---

__________________
<IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?

Like everyone, I'm torn as well. France has every right to disagree with America. But France has moved from simple dissent to active hostility toward America. French President Chirac warned East European nations that if they side with America, France will oppose their membership in the European Union. This week, William Safire reported in the New York Times that France has been secretly helping to arm Iraq -- and has been helping Iraq build long range missiles. These same missiles may soon be used against American soldiers. Just as France is exercising its right to disagree, Americans can exercise their right to boycott -- and avoid helping companies and countries that do no stand with America. French Products and Companies to Boycott The following companies are subject to boycott:

Air France
Air Liquide
Airbus
Alcatel
Allegra
Aqualung
AXA Advisors
Bank of the West
Beneteau
BF Goodrich
BIC
Biotherm
Black Bush
Bollinger
Car & Driver Magazine
Cartier
Chanel
Chivas Regal
Christian Dior
Club Med
Culligan
Dannon
DKNY
Dom Perignon
Durand Crystal
Elle Magazine
Essilor Optical Products
Evian
Fina gas stations and Fina Oil
First Hawaiian Bank
George Magazine
Givenchy
Glenlivet
Hennessy
Houghton Mifflin
Jacobs Creek
Jameson
Jerry Springer
Krups
Lancome
Le Creuset
L'Oreal
Louis Vuitton
Marie Claire
Martel Cognac
Maybelline
M�phisto
Michelin
Mikasa
Moet
Motel 6
Motown Records
MP3.com
Mumms
Nissan
Nivea
Normany Butter
Parents Magazine
Peugeot
Pierre Cardin
Playstation Magazine
ProScan
Publicis Group
RCA
Red Magazine
Red Roof Inns
Renault
Road & Track Magazine
Roquefort cheese (all Roquefort cheese is made in France).
Rowenta
Royal Canadian
Salomon
Sierra Software and Computer Games
Smart & Final
Sofitel
Sparkletts
Spencer Gifts
Sundance Channel
Taylor Made
Technicolor
T-Fal
Total gas stations
UbiSoft
Uniroyal
Universal Studios
USFilter
Veritas Group
Veuve Clicquot Champagne
Vittel
Vivendi
Wild Turkey
Woman's Day Magazine
Yoplait
Yves Saint Laurent
Zodiac Inflatable Boats

quote:

---

Originally posted by KKenna
This week, William Safire reported in the New York Times that France has been secretly helping to arm Iraq -- and has been helping Iraq build long range missiles.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by K. Cannon
Wow, I had no idea. [...]

---

Arrogant Bush Administration

Why do you focus on France, that's just silly. A clear majority of the UN security council was against Bush and Blair, and also Russia and China had announced a veto. Don't try to persuade yourself it is only France, the great majority of nations, let alone their population, is clearly against this violation of international law. So feel free to add Swiss (my home country), German, Italian, Swedish (you name it) companies to your list. The list will be very long, but don't worry, just go ahead.

We all agree that Saddam is a cruel criminal who has to be controlled, removed, killed, whatever. But in this war (like in the last) children, women, men will be killed who did not chose to be ruled by him. And don't forget: Saddam only is in power because of the US - they thought he would be usefull against Iran - but that's another story.

Here a few questions:

- In the last war the water supply of Iraq was a prime target of the allied forces. US scientists have revealed a detailed plan of the US administration to weaken Irak by preventing the delivery of certain chemicals used for water treatment before and during the embargo. Because of this, approx. 500'000 children have died in Iraq due to infections (UN estimation). Is that fair?

- Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby and others (unfortunately now part of the Bush administration) have never made a secret out of the fact that in their opinion, US Forces should control the Middly East (read http://www.newamericancentury.org/R...asDefenses.pdf, a product of the think tank they were part of) due to the strategic importance (oil!!!) of the region. Do you really believe Bush's target is democracy for Iraq? If so, why is the US Administration constantly on the side of dictators like the King of Saudi Arabia and other leaders of Arabic nations, none of which are democracies? If the people of these countries would vote, the would definitely vote anti-US, tough ****, wonder why? Maybe because they feel the US government acts arrogantly and exclusively supports Israel?

- Powell claimed that UN inspectors have only found the tip of the iceberg. US intelligence has been observing Iraq von decades now, if there really are icebergs (weapons of mass destruction), why can't they bring up ANY evidence apart from some tapes and pictures of factories which were later shown to be empty, destroyed or whatever by UN inspectors. That was a very poor show, not convincing at all, but any excuse for war was ok, obviously.

- Is a christian fundamentalist (in the way Bush seems to be one) any better than any other fudamentalist?

- You want to be a superpower, but you don't have health insurance for a major part of the people?

I am aware of the fact that the Bush administration is not USA in general, but the way Bush acts, the US will be a lonely place in the world soon.

Regards,
clulup

Re: Arrogant Bush Administration

quote:

---

Originally posted by clulup
We all agree that Saddam is a cruel criminal who has to be controlled, removed, killed, whatever. But in this war (like in the last) children, women, men will be killed who did not chose to be ruled by him. And don't forget: Saddam only is in power because of the US - they thought he would be usefull against Iran - but that's another story.

---

__________________
<a href="http://www.kurtramsauer.com">KurtRamsauer.com</a>

If there is no other way, as a last measure it seems acceptable that some people die if a greater number can be saved. But we had not arrived at this point now. The threat Saddam was under control right now (inspections in progress), there is no proof he still has weapons of mass destruction, and even if, the inspectors were progressing.

Remember anthrax? There the Bush administration claimed it came from Saddam, too, until it was just too obvious that it was home-made US anthrax. Any excuse is ok for him, but who believes him, outside of the US?

Regards,
clulup