VisorCentral.com - time to upgrade

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VisorCentral.com (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php)
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-- time to upgrade - what to? (http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/showthread.php?threadid=22701)

Posted by dick-richardson on 04-09-2002 02:33 AM:

time to upgrade - what to?

I'm looking to upgrade to a P4 with the associated motherboard and RAM in a new case (desktop). All said and done, I should be able to stay under $500. It's going to be a 1.6GHz, msi motherboard, 800MHz ECC ram (speaking of which, why in the hell are the big boys shipping computers with 400MHz fsb speeds for the processor and motherboard and 133MHz RAM?), and plain-jane case.

Anyone know of any good deals for more-or-less equivalent hardware? I like a decent cache (512k or a 1MB pipeline burst) and decent bus speed (above 133). I'm sacrificing cache in the above system - hence the question.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by BudPritchard on 04-09-2002 04:02 AM:

Upgraded to DELL 4400

Just upgraded to a DELL 4400 for $848. Included free DVD drive upgrade, 256 DDR for price of 128 (266MHz).
Chose XP Pro since I intend to start working with VB.Net.

It is a lot more money than your target; however, I priced out putting a P4 motherboard, DVD, and DDR memory into my current chassis. At the time, 2 months ago, putting together the system would only save me $50-$75 dollars.

Big problem was I could not use the ATX power supply in the system. P4 needs the ATX12 power supply. I would have selected the PCPower and Cooling 600 at $379. Yes, it is expensive, but I live in the lightning capital of the world. I never cheaped out on power supplies. (Don't know what Dell uses, but it is under warranty from them and my APC UPS).

I even checked DELL's outlet. Couldn't find a unit I wanted that fit my specs. The 4400's were just out, so maybe by now there are more units.

Good luck on your search and I will be interested to see how close you get to 1.6 P4 unit at $500.

The 4300's in the outlet are cheaper, but they are SDRAM.

Check out www.pcpowerandcooling.com for cases. They are excellent and came with brass thumbscrews. Plus they even threw in an interior cooling fan. I had ordered the case and power supply separately. To my delight, the case came with the power supply already mounted.

Posted by dampeoples on 04-09-2002 04:29 AM:

upgrade to this

I got what you need...

Posted by terrysalmi on 04-09-2002 04:31 AM:

That looks like a Visor on crack

Do not put Barney anywhere near a computer (or an lcd screen with memory, for that matter) - devalues it WAY too much!

__________________

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Victory 2002 - Republicans Win Control of the Senate
Now onto Victory 2004 - FOUR MORE YEARS

Posted by dampeoples on 04-09-2002 04:37 AM:

I could hook you up too....

Posted by dick-richardson on 04-09-2002 02:11 PM:

Re: Upgraded to DELL 4400

quote:
Originally posted by BudPritchard
...Good luck on your search and I will be interested to see how close you get to 1.6 P4 unit at $500...

Thanks. I'm definitely building my own, as I am keeping my printer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, video card, sound card, NIC, hard drive, floppy drive, and dvd/cd-rw combo.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 04-09-2002 02:45 PM:

Re: time to upgrade - what to?

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I'm looking to upgrade to a P4 with the associated motherboard and RAM in a new case (desktop). All said and done, I should be able to stay under $500. It's going to be a 1.6GHz, msi motherboard, 800MHz ECC ram, and plain-jane case.

I think the price constraints you're setting may make for a bad decision. P4s are going to need a power supply that you probably won't be able to find in a 'plain-jane' case. Also, you didn't specify how much RAM you're looking for (unless I passed over it in my lack of coffee state at the moment). RAMBUS isn't cheap (which is why even Intel is moving to DDR or even regular 133 SDRAM).
note: following parenthetical slightly out of context to preserve clarity

quote:
(speaking of which, why in the hell are the big boys shipping computers with 400MHz fsb speeds for the processor and motherboard and 133MHz RAM?)

Because it's cheaper.

quote:
Anyone know of any good deals for more-or-less equivalent hardware? I like a decent cache (512k or a 1MB pipeline burst) and decent bus speed (above 133). I'm sacrificing cache in the above system - hence the question.

Here are a couple of bareboned systems (note one's an Athlon, though):
http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/kit6937a.htm
http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/kit7211.htm

Posted by dick-richardson on 04-09-2002 04:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dampeoples
I got what you need...

Um, thanks. But no.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by DingoFish on 04-09-2002 05:44 PM:

How bou tthe Athlons?

Are you sold on the P4? Most of the reviews I have seen is that the new Athlon XP's with the DDR RAM either match or exceed comparable (but much more expensive) P4 and RAMBUS configs. Just a thought, since you wan to keep costs down.

Posted by dick-richardson on 04-09-2002 06:57 PM:

Re: Re: time to upgrade - what to?

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
I think the price constraints you're setting may make for a bad decision...

quote:
originally posted by dingofish
Are you sold on the P4?...

Alright, nix the p4. I'm definitely going with an AMD K7 1.4, associated msi motherboard, and 512MB DDR ram. I'm tossing around the idea of 5 1/4 bay speakers. Toby, I won't settle for less than a 300W power supply - do you know of any good desktop cases with one included? By 'plain-jane', I'm referring to the frivolous frills. It's about simplicity. I like thumbscrews (which i can purchase separately if needed), and the top panel should slide off (no cape).

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 04-09-2002 07:25 PM:

Re: Re: Re: time to upgrade - what to?

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
Alright, nix the p4. I'm definitely going with an AMD K7 1.4, associated msi motherboard, and 512MB DDR ram.

Well, that proc should definitely make it easier to hit your target, but 512MB of RAM will make it tough. You'll have to get fly-by-night brand and cross your fingers because name brands will cost (almost $200 for either Corsair or Crucial).

quote:
I'm tossing around the idea of 5 1/4 bay speakers.

*shrug* I've looked at those for my daughter's computer, but I'd never get them personally.

quote:
Toby, I won't settle for less than a 300W power supply

Nor did I say you should. Quite the contrary. I don't know if you'll be able to find a decent case with a 300W+ (personally, the 340-350 ones are what I'd go for) for less than $100-150, but maybe directron.com has some.

quote:
- do you know of any good desktop cases with one included? By 'plain-jane', I'm referring to the frivolous frills. It's about simplicity. I like thumbscrews (which i can purchase separately if needed), and the top panel should slide off (no cape).

I haven't looked at desktop cases in at least 6 years. Mid-towers are my preferred solution (full towers are better for many reasons, but size usually biases me the other way).

Posted by dick-richardson on 04-09-2002 08:42 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: time to upgrade - what to?

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
Well, that proc should definitely make it easier to hit your target, but 512MB of RAM will make it tough. You'll have to get fly-by-night brand and cross your fingers because name brands will cost (almost $200 for either Corsair or Crucial).

I usually go through chipmerchant.com, but they're right up there with crucial et al. Since I'm getting the proc/motherboard combo for $200, I can probably do it and a case for right around the $500 I mentioned. If I gotta go higher to get what I need, so be it.

quote:
*shrug* I've looked at those for my daughter's computer, but I'd never get them personally.

Those same guys have a $20 set that have better specs. Neither are the quality I'm looking for. I'd like something decent (not included in the $500) for mid-high frequency and a separate subwoofer. Was hoping klipsch or harman kardon might have something. If I end up with a tower, they'd be pointless.

quote:
Nor did I say you should. Quite the contrary. I don't know if you'll be able to find a decent case with a 300W+ (personally, the 340-350 ones are what I'd go for) for less than $100-150, but maybe directron.com has some.

I'll take a look, thanks.

quote:
I haven't looked at desktop cases in at least 6 years. Mid-towers are my preferred solution (full towers are better for many reasons, but size usually biases me the other way).

I've always been partial to having everything at my fingertips (cd, floppy, monitor controls, etc.).

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by BudPritchard on 04-09-2002 09:20 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: time to upgrade - what to?

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

I've always been partial to having everything at my fingertips (cd, floppy, monitor controls, etc.).

As I mentioned before, look here: www.pcpowerandcooling.com/home.htm

Posted by bookrats on 04-09-2002 09:33 PM:

Re: Re: Upgraded to DELL 4400

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson

Thanks. I'm definitely building my own, as I am keeping my printer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, video card, sound card, NIC, hard drive, floppy drive, and dvd/cd-rw combo.

Question: do you mean you're literally building your own, i.e., going down to one of the PC build-your-own store, buying a case and components, and taking it home to built it up?

Or do you mean you're ordering it from Dell or other mail order company, having them assemble it, taking it and adding your current components on afterwards?

I ask this because I took the do-it-yourself route with the computer I bought last December, with the help of a friend who was had done it before. Assembled it all at home, and then installed XP and went on from there.

I'm very comfortable with PC software configuration and OS installation, and OK with fiddling with the insides of the hardware (particularly when it's not hardware I've paid for myself); this was a good bit farther into the deep end for me. The AMD processor that burned up on the first try was, ummm, exciting. (Infant mortality -- free replacement, if you return it within 24 hours of buying it.)

In retrospect, I learned a lot, and everything worked out; but if I had it to do all over again, I'd go to the same shop (in Seattle -- the Computer Stop), pick out the pieces as I did last time, but have them assemble and test the whole thing for me for an extra $50-$90. Think it'd be well worth my time and the stress.

__________________
Jeff Meyer

"And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."

Posted by Toby on 04-09-2002 09:45 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: time to upgrade - what to?

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I usually go through chipmerchant.com, but they're right up there with crucial et al. Since I'm getting the proc/motherboard combo for $200, I can probably do it and a case for right around the $500 I mentioned. If I gotta go higher to get what I need, so be it.

Well, if you can get the proc/mobo for $200, and the memory for $175-200 (that's for one 512MB DDR DIMM from either Corsair or Crucial, YMMV), you might not be totally out of luck after all. Try Antec for a case as well. Their case/PS combos have a really good rep from what I've heard (and their case for Alienware is one of the main reasons I went with Alienware for my new system which I'll hopefully see before the end of the week). You can get the same case (without the custom bezel) from CompUSA for ~$130, so I'm sure there are other case options from them for $100 or less.

quote:
Those same guys have a $20 set that have better specs. Neither are the quality I'm looking for. I'd like something decent (not included in the $500) for mid-high frequency and a separate subwoofer. Was hoping klipsch or harman kardon might have something. If I end up with a tower, they'd be pointless.

heh...well, if you go for Klipsch, you'll pay more for the speakers than you're looking for, I'll wager.

quote:
I've always been partial to having everything at my fingertips (cd, floppy, monitor controls, etc.).

*shrug* I have a shelf under my desk where my tower sits where it's within easy enough reach. A monitor sitting on a desktop is too high for my tastes.

Posted by Toby on 04-09-2002 09:50 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: time to upgrade - what to?

quote:
Originally posted by BudPritchard
As I mentioned before, look here: www.pcpowerandcooling.com/home.htm

They don't sell a desktop, though. Unless you're suggesting that he turn their 'economical mid-tower' on its side? That being said, though, PC Power and Cooling is an excellent manufacturer and I have their Silencer PS and Fans in my current PC, and would buy from them again in a heartbeat if I was building again (although I would probably buy a raw case with their PSes and fans separately rather than a case from them).

Posted by Toby on 04-09-2002 09:59 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Upgraded to DELL 4400

quote:
Originally posted by bookrats
Question: do you mean you're literally building your own, i.e., going down to one of the PC build-your-own store, buying a case and components, and taking it home to built it up?

I'm pretty sure he means this.

quote:
Or do you mean you're ordering it from Dell or other mail order company, having them assemble it, taking it and adding your current components on afterwards?

Generally, Dell is _not_ a good vendor to try this with. They sometimes tweak configurations (especially power supplies) which make them not compatible with just any system add-ons. A generic clone maker (like ABS) is more conducive to this type of 'reconfiguration'.

quote:
I ask this because I took the do-it-yourself route with the computer I bought last December, with the help of a friend who was had done it before. Assembled it all at home, and then installed XP and went on from there.

I'm very comfortable with PC software configuration and OS installation, and OK with fiddling with the insides of the hardware (particularly when it's not hardware I've paid for myself); this was a good bit farther into the deep end for me. The AMD processor that burned up on the first try was, ummm, exciting. (Infant mortality -- free replacement, if you return it within 24 hours of buying it.)

heh...You should try working in a mom&pop computer shop. The one I used to work for way-back-when (long enough ago that Novell was king of business networking and Lantastic was the P2P solution of choice) had entire shipments of hard drives go titsup sometimes.

quote:
In retrospect, I learned a lot, and everything worked out; but if I had it to do all over again, I'd go to the same shop (in Seattle -- the Computer Stop), pick out the pieces as I did last time, but have them assemble and test the whole thing for me for an extra $50-$90. Think it'd be well worth my time and the stress.

Yeah, that's why my upcoming system is being built by somebody else.

Posted by dick-richardson on 04-09-2002 10:41 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Upgraded to DELL 4400

Alright, I am buying separate components and assembling myself. I do it for a living, so I should be right around 30 minutes for assembly and configuring. I'd be spending about the same amount of time going through someone else's work, so the extra $ isn't worth it for me.

As for drive speakers, I just want decent sounding speakers up to $100~$150. All I've found are cheapies. I've been checking out bose (if they can make decent speakers for a clock-radio, i'm figuring they could do something like that for a computer drive bay), but have had no luck.

I think Antec has the case I'm looking for. I wish the desktop wasn't a cape. BTW, I was looking at computer case stickers and found one that looks suspiciously like your avatar, Toby.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

Posted by Toby on 04-10-2002 12:42 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Upgraded to DELL 4400

quote:
Originally posted by dick-richardson
I think Antec has the case I'm looking for. I wish the desktop wasn't a cape.

What do you mean by 'cape'?

quote:
BTW, I was looking at computer case stickers and found one that looks suspiciously like your avatar, Toby.

Dunno, if I'd say suspicious. My current avatar is a case sticker 'suspiciously' similar to the one that alienware uses.

Posted by dick-richardson on 04-10-2002 12:59 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Upgraded to DELL 4400

quote:
Originally posted by Toby
What do you mean by 'cape'?

I mean the sides and top are one piece. It's a deal-breaker for a tower, but only an irritation when dealing with a desktop. I'd like the top panel to slide off, rather like a tower turned on its side. I've only seen it on a gateway, but it impressed me.

quote:
Dunno, if I'd say suspicious. My current avatar is a case sticker 'suspiciously' similar to the one that alienware uses.

Atta boy! Deny everything.

The same company you linked to for the 5.25" bay speakers sent us a catalog with the very same case sticker. They have a smiley face I may get if I don't find mr. yuk. Speaking of which, it's time to change my avatar.

__________________
-Joshua
Abortion: Darwinism at its finest.

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