VisorCentral.com - Wired Networking

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Posted by Jason4321 on 01-26-2001 02:04 AM:

I have always wanted a quick, non-wireless way to connect to my network (or any LAN) with my Visor Prism. Now, thanks to Clarinet Systems, it's possible!

It's called the EtherIR LAN (EB101) and all you do is plug your ethernet cable into the back and it converts the ethernet connection into an IR network link. It comes with 2 parts, the "hub" which accepts the network connection and a module that extends out with the actual IR transmitter/receiver. It works great on our corporate LAN, it's pre-configured for DHCP but you can set it up with a fixed IP as well.

Posted by pda4you on 01-26-2001 03:15 PM:

Looks Cool but $$$$

I was excited until I saw the price. If you need their hub/switch (appears you do) it's a bit pricey.

See:
http://www.connectronics.com/clarinet/

Posted by DBrown on 01-26-2001 04:10 PM:

Re: Looks Cool but $$$$

quote:
Originally posted by pda4you
I was excited until I saw the price. If you need their hub/switch (appears you do) it's a bit pricey.

The prices posted on that link show $60 for just the IR box with 6' cable. Not the cheapest IR device I've seen, but not outrageous either.

I already have a hub in my house, with several jacks scattered around, and my office has network jacks on every wall. If the above mentioned IR box is all you need when there is an existing network to plug into then it just might be THE best solution for Visor users who want wired access.

OK, OK, IR isn't wired. But it doesn't use your springboard slot, doesn't require you to plug/unplug anything from your Visor, and would take advantage of one aspect of the visor hardware I think is WAY underused. ON the bad side, the connection might not be stable if you are moving your visor around much as you surf. The IR link has to be maintained. A hard wired connection wouldn't have that problem.

Call me "very interested".

Dave

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Posted by Jason4321 on 01-26-2001 04:19 PM:

Reply to last

Don't make the same mistake I did and think the IR node is the only thing you need. The nodes ($60) are ONLY for the IR hub, what you want is the EthIR LAN 101 (for single network connections) which includes a special ethernet to IR interface and an IR node that has a three-foot cord. It operates at about 2 MB / sec on the IR link and works really well. On the Prism, you just select IR to a PC/Handheld as your connection method. No need to set up IP information since the hub takes care of it for you. Remember, it is pre-configured to use a DHCP server, though they include instructions for setting up a fixed IP address in it.

Posted by kram on 01-26-2001 06:04 PM:

What exectly is the "special ethernet to IR interface"? I assume the "IR node that has a three-foot cord" is functionally the same as the EthIR Beam, except that it connects to the "special ethernet to IR interface". I'm also assuming that the ethernet to IR interface plugs into any hub/switch.

Can you provide more details?

Posted by Jason4321 on 01-26-2001 06:22 PM:

Sure! Basically, you get a power supply, a small white box with three LED's on top (uplink, status, and power). Plug in the ethernet cable into the back and assuming you use the default DHCP settings, the uplink LED blinks a couple of times and finally stays green. Next you plug one end of the other included cable into the back, looks like a PS/2 connector, and this connects to the EthIR Beam module.

If you bought the EthIR Hub, which is significantly more $$, you can plug multiple EthIR Beam modules in for multiple connections. The EB101 model which I have only has one Ethernet connection, and only one EthIR Beam module connection. The EthIR Beam module has the IR transmitter/receiver with a little LED on top to let you know when you have connection (the equivalent of a 'link' light on a conventional network card).

For $269, it's extremely flexible, since it can be used on any network with any IR-equipped device, not just PDA's, with little or no configuration. For us die-hard connectivity guys, it's easier than messing with hotsync cradle networkiing (etc.)

Hope this helps....

Posted by DBrown on 01-26-2001 07:10 PM:

I sent this email to Michael at connectronics:

Will your EthIR Beam product work plugged into a standard ethernet twisted
pair jack or hub?

I believe you could sell thousands of EthIR Beam modules to Palm, Handspring
Visor, and related handheld PC owners if they could connect to anyone's
existing network.

If they don't, please consider making a version that does.

Sincerely,

Dave Brown

I got this response:

That product does exist and we will be working on our web site shortly to better define that. The part numbers are 29-3153 and 29-3154. You will find pricing at http://www.connectronics.com/clarinet/index.html.

The 29-3153 provides a single INFRARED port and the 29-8154 provides a 10/100 and INFRARED port for connection of both an PC and IrDA device.

All I can say is "Too damned expensive!"

Dave

[Edited by DBrown on 01-26-2001 at 02:12 PM]

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Posted by JHromadka on 01-26-2001 08:27 PM:

Yeah but the xfer speed isn't going to be anywhere near what a full ethernet module would be.

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Posted by Jason4321 on 01-26-2001 08:32 PM:

Guys,

I already explained that the EtherIR LAN 101 kit does connect to any network and allow connectivity to you PDA. Yes, it was $269, but it's all you need if you want network connectivity with anything equipped with IR.

I will agree it'd be nice to have a wired Springboard module, but in the interim, this works great beacuase you can have any module plugged into the Visor, plus the keyboard, etc. and still have a network connection.

Posted by Rock on 01-26-2001 09:37 PM:

Jason4321,

What are some of the things you've done with your Visor over your IR network connection?

Rock

Posted by Jason4321 on 01-26-2001 10:06 PM:

Well, using Multimail I'm able to directly connect up to the IMAP servers here at GE. That's a great feature. Also, using Palmscape, I'm able to browse the web over the network, use Ptelnet to login and monitor my servers, use the various IRC programs available for the Palm to chat. Whatever you'd want to do using a laptop, basically. I just tested FireProducer and it works great over the LAN connection as well (by this I mean running the FireProducer video streaming software and watching the video stream on my Prism using FireViewer). And yet another cool function is running a web server on the Palm (haven't tried this yet) or usin the latest PalmVNC program to control all my systems running VNC. Nothing cooler than panning around your Windows desktop on your Visor Prism. Over the network, this is really fast and useful!

Any other ideas?

Posted by DBrown on 01-26-2001 11:45 PM:

$269.

I paid $259 for my Platinum (Staples.com with a $40 web coupon).

I have an IR wireless keyboard, complete with the IR receiver that connects to my PC. It cost $40.

I paid $15 for the 10/100 nic I put in one of my home computers. Works like a charm.

I assume both the companies I bought these devices from made a fair profit on them. The sum total electronics in these devices should be more than enough to construct an IR/ethernet connector.

Why should an IR/ethernet device cost more than a Visor costs? It shouldn't. Jason, you've been ripped off. If your company bought it for you, and it serves several users, then the price might be more justifiable. For individual Visor owners who just want an easy connection to their home or office networks connectronics device is grossly overpriced.

That's my opinion and I'll wrestle you over it!

Dave ;-)

[Edited by DBrown on 01-26-2001 at 11:29 PM]

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Posted by Jason4321 on 01-26-2001 11:56 PM:

You're right, of course. If you add up the sum total of the components that make up this kit, I'd definitely feel ripped off. However, since my job is evaluating alot of this technology, and I didn't buy it myself, it somehow seems really okay. Peaceful, easy feeling, ya know?

To your point, if you really need this kind of connectivity, maybe you, the consumer, need to evaluate what your priorities are. I felt the EB101 is a great product/solution, in light of Xircom's product decision concerning their wired Ethernet module, and also considering the engineers I support are working in hospitals around the world (meaning wireless RF devices are not an option); with all the above factors, this device looks much more appealing.

So, yeah. We do support multiple users so the price may be justified, just like all the other cool toys, er.. tools out there that cost alot (i.e. Soundsgood) but provide a solution not found readily elsewhere.

Thanks for the great feedback!

Posted by Matthew Nichols on 01-27-2001 12:34 AM:

And of course, your 10/100 NIC may have cost $10 but competition have driven NIC prices down this low - how many companies do you see competing for this product? I would assume that this is also more advanced than your keyboard, which I would think has more in common with my TV remote than actual data transfering.

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Posted by yucca on 01-27-2001 02:39 AM:

I've tested Clarinet Systems's IR products, and they do not allow you to perform a network hotsync with either the Visor or the VDX (another OS 3.1 deficiency). However, they should work with the VPL and VPR. Can any VPL or VPR users confirm successful network hotsyncs via a Clarinet System's receiver?

Posted by dvIceT on 01-27-2001 02:46 AM:

Network connection?

Hi Jason 4321,

The EthIR device sounds interesting, but how does the your Prism connect to it? Do you have to "sign on" to the IR port and establish a PPP link? I've been able to connect to my computer's infrared dongle via an IR PPP link but having to re-establish the link everytime I want to grab something off the network is a little tedious.

Posted by DBrown on 01-27-2001 04:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Nichols
And of course, your 10/100 NIC may have cost $10 but competition have driven NIC prices down this low - how many companies do you see competing for this product? I would assume that this is also more advanced than your keyboard, which I would think has more in common with my TV remote than actual data transfering.

The IR keyboard and it's receiver provide both the sending and receiving IR components you'll need for an Ethernet/IR link. A typical 10/100 ethernet NIC should provide the rest. If there has to be some additional circuitry, you can probably steal the raw material from the keyboard's circuit board. It doesn't take a genius to imagine an IR/Ethernet solution for <$55, the cost of these two devices.

But you are right, competition is an incredible market force. It will drive prices down. But no (sane)company will lower them below their actual cost to make the product unless they are using the product as a loss leader. My conclusion? At $15 that NIC company was still making a profit. It just wasn't a grossly inflated profit.

I know that the startup costs of producing a product make the first several thousand you make actually cost more than what seems reasonable for the product. I don't blame connectronics for asking $269 for their product. Putting any product into production takes serious cash, and I'm sure they are trying to recoop that investment before some other company puts a similar but cheaper product on the market. When actual competition hits, all parties involved find (or try to find) ways to reduce their costs and lower the price to compete.

It's also dangerous to underprice a product. A low initial price can make consumers believe the new product must be low in quality. No one wants the "first impression" of their product to be that.

But I still want a wired (or IR) way to connect my Visor to the network. I still believe one can be produced and sold profitably for <$50 (I like $29.95). I just may have to make my own, I guess.

Dave ;-)

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Posted by gordons_m on 01-28-2001 03:31 PM:

To DBrown.

Are you saying that you are using the wireless keyboards receiver to connect you visor to a PC that is connected to a network? Can you use the receiver for the keyboard and Visor at the same time? Does this configuration require additional software? Your post was interesting but I did not fully understand how all these HW devices were intergrated and how they were configured.

Thanks.

Posted by DBrown on 01-28-2001 04:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by gordons_m
To DBrown.

Are you saying that you are using the wireless keyboards receiver to connect you visor to a PC that is connected to a network? Can you use the receiver for the keyboard and Visor at the same time? Does this configuration require additional software? Your post was interesting but I did not fully understand how all these HW devices were intergrated and how they were configured.

Thanks.

Gordons_m,

No. No. NA. My post was just to point out how the hardware components one would need to produce an IR/ethernet adapter you could use with your Visor could be had for much less than would justify a $269 price tag. You'll have to read the entire thread to catch up with the story.

Dave

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Posted by Jason4321 on 01-29-2001 12:26 AM:

Re: Network connection?

quote:
Originally posted by dvIceT
Hi Jason 4321,

The EthIR device sounds interesting, but how does the your Prism connect to it? Do you have to "sign on" to the IR port and establish a PPP link? I've been able to connect to my computer's infrared dongle via an IR PPP link but having to re-establish the link everytime I want to grab something off the network is a little tedious.

All I do is select Windows RAS as the connection service, and IR to PC/Handheld as the connection method on my Prism. Since the EB101 has already found it's network settings via DHCP (or manually, if you set them up) the Prism just connects immediately to the network and stays connected. No authentication required. I usually keep the Prism in its charging cradle during these connections... It really is a great piece of hardware! PalmVNC is quite snappy at this speed.

-Jason

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