VisorCentral.com - Bored with my Visor

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Posted by Trinition on 09-14-2000 05:14 PM:

I'm bored with my Visor. When will something interesting arrive? I'm still waiting for FullCharge for the Visor. I'm still waiting for the MarkSpace DataCord for the Visor USB. I haven't seen any good games lately (other than that cute little PortaKitty!).

Any ideas?

__________________
--
Trinition ([email protected])

Posted by bkbk on 09-14-2000 07:55 PM:

Curious: have you tried all 6,000 apps for the Palm OS out there already?

Posted by lennonhead on 09-14-2000 08:24 PM:

Why don't your try writing your own apps? I just downloaded the light version of Code Warrior for the Palm OS and it's really neat. I figured it was just like the computer version, but it had an additional program to help with icons, bitmaps, forms, menus etc... I have a cable modem now, so the 20 meg download wasn't any problem, not sure if I would have done it or not with a dial up connection. Anyway, you obviously would have to learn c/c++ and the Palm OS specifics, but it's better than being bored ...

I on the other hand will never get bored with my Visor, and I think I'll still try my hand at a little Palm OS programming.

Posted by PDAENVY on 09-14-2000 08:42 PM:

Boredom Busters

Sign up for AvantGo ( http://www.avantgo.com ) and read Wired, The New York Times, HandHeldCrime, and others.
Go to http://www.memoware.com
Download and read ebooks.
Buy an EyeModule, take pictures with it, and create a website with the pictures. If you and your subjects are of age, you could even take adult-oriented pictures
Buy an MP3 player module, learn to "rip" songs from your CDs, and create custom mixes to carry around and listen to on your Visor.
Compile a list of celebrities that carry PalmOS handhelds. See how many of them you can get to beam you their business card.

__________________
Jeff

Posted by perze_a on 09-15-2000 03:22 PM:

lennonhead,

Where can I download the lite version? is this thing freeware? BTW Trinition, How about playing games in your visor. A lot of cool text based games out there.. Solar Wars is one, hmmm, wanna try if you are a financial trader, Check out Day trader... all are freeware...... If you want you can also have simcity(not freeware). I must admit, i'm getting bored with my visor too. Glad I stumbled across this thread.... made me think of the days where I was looking forward to powering up my visor. Visor is indeed whatever the heck you wanna be!

Perze

__________________
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I do not know what weapons will be used
in world war III, but im sure that we
will use rocks in world war IV. --Albert Einstein
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Posted by lennonhead on 09-15-2000 09:17 PM:

I found the site through another post on these boards. The site is http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/tools/cw/

It's towards the bottom where it says "CodeWarrior Lite - Free Download!" Yes, it is free, but it does have limitations. From the html document included:

quote:

Thank you for evaluating CodeWarrior Lite for Palm OS. CodeWarrior Lite is a smaller version of the commercial CodeWarrior product, yet it contains the same award-winning IDE and high-quality tools that the commercial version has. With CodeWarrior Lite, you can create, compile, and debug applications that will run on a Palm connected organizer or the Palm OS Emulator.

CodeWarrior Lite is not supported by Metrowerks or Palm Computing. Users of the commercial CodeWarrior for Palm Computing platform product receive full phone and email support with their returned registration.

CodeWarrior Lite is provided only for evaluation purposes--it cannot be used to make redistributable applications.

The Palm OS Tutorial describes a MacOS "simulator" that is not included with CodeWarrior Lite due to space constraints. CodeWarrior Lite is capable of creating and debugging applications for the Palm device and Palm OS Emulator, but not the simulator.

It seems like it's great to play around with and if you make an incredible app you buy the full version in order to distribute it.

Posted by miradu on 09-16-2000 02:51 AM:

I would suggest learning C, and programming, AND learning some simple hardware and create your own springboards!!!!! You can probably get most of your parts from radioschack. Think if the excitement you've have if yo uwere to program a flashing L.E.D.

I haven't tried it, I'm going to soon

-miradu2000

Posted by foo fighter on 09-16-2000 05:11 AM:

Hey Trinition,

welcome to the club!

Looks like your coming down with a case of Foo Fever. Don't worry, it's not the onset of illness. It's just a cold hard dose of reality. Your beginning to recognize what I've seen for some time now...the limitations of the Palm platform. But hang in there, I think these dumbasses at Palm may yet lay a golden egg if we beat them over the head long enough. Even though I believe they wouldn't know an innovative idea if it came up and bit them in the ass! (Don't agree with me?, I have three words;...Claudia Schiffer Palm). Even in the remote chance they actually they would, they still can't implement it into their devices. They can't just license WinAmp and stick it in a Palm, although that would be a move in the right direction. The same is true of Handspring. Hawkins is every bit as clueless as Palm's executives. Quote from Hawkins: "160x160 pixel resolution is perfectly fine"...."color is really only useful for pictures". Yah, and tires are really only useful while driving down the highway! Need I say more.

Initially I was disgusted with Palm and Handspring. But now I've grown to HATE THEM! I am baffled at the ineptitude of these two companies. How can their respective execs look at devices such as RIM Blackberries' (wireless email), the Cybiko (for Teens), Pocket PC (truly innovative), Nokia and Ericsson's PDA/phones, Japanese iMode phones, Symbian's Quartz platform, Sony's next gen Clie' (they are pushing Multimedia), and not realize that this device category is changing. PDAs are moving away from being simple electronic organizers into something much more useful. Personal information is only the tip of a rather large iceberg. Personal content (MP3 music and ebooks) is the next big step, in conjunction with wireless/instant messaging. Taking the best internet/media experience with you is what handhelds are all about, or rather WILL be about. Even Sony knows this. By the way, Sony is my new hero. They understand where this market is heading...merging the features of the Pocket PC with the PalmOS into something more useful than either product. Anyone who doesn't see this has to be blind. For a long time I've said that a device that falls between a Pocket PC and a Palm will be the future of handheld design. I think Sony will be the first to deliver that experience to end users. What about Handspring you ask? Well, let's just say that Jeff is too busy trying to keep costs down to be worried about developing something innovative. After all, that might actually require a revision to his precious OS. Apparently innovation doesn't have a place in the sacred "Zen of Palm" philosophy. He is focusing on Wireless connectivity, but that won't take off until we see compelling content take shape. For example, the average user really doesn't care about receiving the latest sports stats from ESPN wireless on their Cell phone or PDA. We need something more compelling than that. Why do you think the Palm VII has been Palm's worst selling handheld? Because consumers like neither the product, nor the service. We don't want "clipped" web sites, we want the same experience we have at our desktops...the real-time web. We want to be able to post messages at this discussion board from our wireless PDA/phone anytime...anywhere, in color, while listening to our favorite MP3s and reading the latest King novel in true paper quality font. Whoever gets us there first will have the market. Right now this field is too fragmented. Each device has qualities that others don't have, but none of them have the right balance of those features. They suffer, like me, from the "Goldilocks effect" (i.e.., too small, too big, too underpowered, too limited, too bloated, too expensive, too everything, and not enough whatever). There is no one device that is a perfect fit. Someone please throw me a life preserver!

Wow, I'm out of breath!

__________________
My blog: Pocketfactory

Posted by bobengle2 on 09-16-2000 03:35 PM:

Personally, boredom is one thing I can't associate with my Visor.In fact I find myself wishing I had more time in the day to take advantage of some of the cool things the VDx can do.Makes me kinda wish I had a nice, long train ride to work in the morning so I could get some time to read all these cool e-books and games I've been scouring the net for.

__________________
"I sync, therefore I am."

Posted by Gameboy70 on 09-16-2000 09:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
Looks like your coming down with a case of Foo Fever. Don't worry, it's not the onset of illness. It's just a cold hard dose of reality. Your beginning to recognize what I've seen for some time now...the limitations of the Palm platform. But hang in there, I think these dumbasses at Palm may yet lay a golden egg if we beat them over the head long enough.

A minority market share, a la PPC, would probably be more persuasive.

quote:
Even though I believe they wouldn't know an innovative idea if it came up and bit them in the ass! (Don't agree with me?, I have three words;...Claudia Schiffer Palm).

What's wrong with a nice form factor?

quote:
Even in the remote chance they actually they would, they still can't implement it into their devices. They can't just license WinAmp and stick it in a Palm, although that would be a move in the right direction.

How sticking WinAmp on the Palm would be a step in the right direction is a mystery to me. I'd rather have MP3 as an option so that I don't have to pay for a frivolous waste of resources.

quote:
The same is true of Handspring. Hawkins is every bit as clueless as Palm's executives. Quote from Hawkins: "160x160 pixel resolution is perfectly fine"...."color is really only useful for pictures". Yah, and tires are really only useful while driving down the highway! Need I say more.

Leaving aside the fact that those are lazy paraphrases and not verbatim quotes, they do have merit in the context of Palm OS devices. Broadly speaking, PDAs come in two types: tools and toys. For those wishing to be entertained with ebooks, MP3, movie clips, the PPC is the way to go. For those needing a device to hold to-do lists, appointments, notes and contacts -- color, higher resolution and audio remain luxuries.

quote:
Initially I was disgusted with Palm and Handspring. But now I've grown to HATE THEM! I am baffled at the ineptitude of these two companies. How can their respective execs look at devices such as RIM Blackberries' (wireless email), the Cybiko (for Teens), Pocket PC (truly innovative), Nokia and Ericsson's PDA/phones, Japanese iMode phones, Symbian's Quartz platform, Sony's next gen Clie' (they are pushing Multimedia), and not realize that this device category is changing.

A theory: maybe because they're not selling...? Moreover, the Quartz is vaporware, and we'll have to wait a few weeks to have a clearer picture of the long-term demand for the Cli�, which can't be gauged by first-day sellouts.

quote:
PDAs are moving away from being simple electronic organizers into something much more useful. Personal information is only the tip of a rather large iceberg.

That's a bit like pundits a few years ago saying that operating systems weren't "where it's at," and that the browser is everything. Tell that to Bill. With or without multimedia, the PIM is the staple of PDA usage. Jeff Hawkins has said repeatedly that in developing the Palm platform, he wasn't trying to compete with PCs but with paper organizers -- and it looks like he's won the battle. CNet has an article today about Day Runner being delisted from Nasdaq because it failed to meet the minimum bid price of $1. The next market to conquer is voice and data communications. When Handspring releases its cell phone module at the end of the year, the Visor will be a no-brainer. Since the module will be CDMA-based, I predict that it will handle voice and data.

quote:
Personal content (MP3 music and ebooks) is the next big step, in conjunction with wireless/instant messaging. Taking the best internet/media experience with you is what handhelds are all about, or rather WILL be about. Even Sony knows this. By the way, Sony is my new hero. They understand where this market is heading...merging the features of the Pocket PC with the PalmOS into something more useful than either product. Anyone who doesn't see this has to be blind. For a long time I've said that a device that falls between a Pocket PC and a Palm will be the future of handheld design.

That's happening on the Visor as well, with the top priority on wireless/instant messaging. Resource-intensive media like music files are best left to third party solutions. Even Sony is a third party solution for the Palm OS.

quote:
I think Sony will be the first to deliver that experience to end users. What about Handspring you ask? Well, let's just say that Jeff is too busy trying to keep costs down to be worried about developing something innovative.

The Visor is Handspring's first product. It makes sense for a startup to concentrate on a low-cost, mass market product -- especially when introducing a new technology like the Springboard. At a then-competitive $250, early adopters had nothing lose if the Springboard concept didn't work out, since the Visor was Palm-compatible. Handspring can now focus on releasing innovative products, like the cell phone module, and higher-end Visors -- which is the company's stated intention.

quote:
After all, that might actually require a revision to his precious OS. Apparently innovation doesn't have a place in the sacred "Zen of Palm" philosophy. He is focusing on Wireless connectivity, but that won't take off until we see compelling content take shape. For example, the average user really doesn't care about receiving the latest sports stats from ESPN wireless on their Cell phone or PDA. We need something more compelling than that.

True. The killer apps of wireless internet connectivity are email and instant messaging, not necessarily the web. But PDAs do solve certain interface problems with make today's cell phones ineffective for using the web. With a PDA, you can enter text with a stylus, and you can view larger volumes of data. I tried to send someone a one-sentence email on my cell phone by typing the message on the phone's numeric keypad. It was so painful, I abandoned the email in mid-sentence. People complain (justifiably) about WAP, but the real problem is the numeric keypad. With the advent of the Stowaway, PDAs are a much more attractive messaging platform.

quote:
Why do you think the Palm VII has been Palm's worst selling handheld? Because consumers like neither the product, nor the service. We don't want "clipped" web sites, we want the same experience we have at our desktops...the real-time web.

Why? In a word, price. As someone once anxious to buy a Palm VII, I liked neither the price of the product, nor the price of the service. At an attractive enough price, I could have tolerated PQAs, but definitely would have prefered real-time access. Still, I was more interested in email than the web.

quote:
We want to be able to post messages at this discussion board from our wireless PDA/phone anytime...anywhere, in color, while listening to our favorite MP3s and reading the latest King novel in true paper quality font.

A presumptuous "we" indeed. And if you can post messages on a discussion board while reading a novel, you're a better man than I am.

quote:
Whoever gets us there first will have the market. Right now this field is too fragmented. Each device has qualities that others don't have, but none of them have the right balance of those features. They suffer, like me, from the "Goldilocks effect" (i.e.., too small, too big, too underpowered, too limited, too bloated, too expensive, too everything, and not enough whatever). There is no one device that is a perfect fit.

Now you're getting warm. The brass ring goes to whoever can accomplish the most for the least: the Zen of Palm in a nutshell.

quote:
Wow, I'm out of breath!

At least you're not bored.

Posted by Cerulean on 09-16-2000 10:58 PM:

FooFever huh? Sounds like there is a pretty simple solution -- downsize a laptop while maintaining a few days worth of battery life between a recharge.. That would be simply awesome -- and in the future, such a device will exist and everyone will jump for joy! (not to mention being able to interact with the device through voice commands ..) --- however, that simply does not exist at this point and time..

PDAs are a compromise at this time .. however, I feel the variety of devices available will promote competition among the various manufacturers and we will see more features, smaller sizes and quicker turnarounds because of it.

As of right now, the palm platform has the best balance of features/price of any device out there .. period. It has a lot of applications, it has long battery life, it has expansion options, it is easy to use, easy to sync/backup, etc.. Sure, it would be nice to have more indepth functionaility in many of the applications and it would be nice to have a faster unit for those more demanding applications, however, I don't think the costs associated with those features (retail price & battery life) are worth it for the majority of consumers..

Joe

Posted by yardie on 09-16-2000 11:02 PM:

Oh No

Here we go again. Foo Fighter and his "Rage against the Palm".

MOST people do not want their desktop in the Palm of their hands. If they did, they would have been lining up to get the Pocket PCs not the Palm and not the Visor.

Most people, including me use the visor for productivity purposes (email, PIM, notes etc)....not entertainment and leisure. People who buy handhelds as toys are a very small minority.

People like things that are simple, intuitive and easy to use. The Palm OS fits the bill perfectly.

Methink Trinitron is bored of his Visor because he has way too much time on his hands. I can't imagine ever getting bored of my Visor.

Posted by lennonhead on 09-17-2000 02:28 AM:

And just when this was turning into a nice little thread about the potential uses for the Visor, foo fighter posted and the apocalypse was upon us...

Posted by foo fighter on 09-17-2000 02:33 AM:

Here we go!

Gameboy:

quote:
What's wrong with a nice form factor?

Absolutely nothing. As long as you at least make an attempt to improve your product in the process. Listening to Carl Yankowski brag about his company's partnership with Claudia Schiffer is like watching the hag from the Old Navy commercials talk about Technochino Pants! "Our new Technochino Palm M100s are simply to die for!" or "These new Claudia Schiffer Palm Vs are simply MARVELOUS!". Some people may treasure style over substance, but I prefer a balance of both aspects. Give me a stylish handheld that offers a good set of chore features with added improvements and I'll buy it. But to dress the same old product (and OS) in a new fashion scent, and you can shove it up your...Palm!

quote:
How sticking WinAmp on the Palm would be a step in the right direction is a mystery to me. I'd rather have MP3 as an option so that I don't have to pay for a frivolous waste of resources.

I didn't REALLY mean that licensing WinAMP was the right move. I was just being my sarcastic self. My point is that it's time for Palm to move beyond the audio dark ages into the light. As I said before, contrary to what the nay Sayers may claim, it is in fact a very natural function to be able to plug a set of stereo headphones into your handheld and listen to your favorite music. I understand your argument about hogging system resources, but that isn't "our" problem. This is simply a challenge that handheld device makers are, or will be, faced with. What really frustrates me is why Palm or Handspring thinks that they don't have to deal with this issue because MP3 audio doesn't belong on a handheld. Bull****! In a competitive market such as this one, it doesn't matter what users need, it only matters what YOU will offer to stay competitive in burgeoning field. Do you really think we actually need 1.3GHZ processors? It doesn't matter! This is simply the fruit of competition between AMD and Intel. The same is true of handhelds. It doesn't matter what Palm or Handspring "thinks" end users "need" in a handheld. It only matters that Microsoft is offering something they are not! It's time for Palm and Handspring to end their classic dog and pony show. Microsoft has released an influential and innovative product. The only question is; what will Palm or Jeffy boy do to respond? I don't see Palm unveiling a "true" ebook reader or offer MP3 capability. What have they done? Nothing! Oh wait, I forgot Claudia Schiffer. What "man" will carry around a Claudia Schiffer Palm, they may as well be carrying a Malibu Barbie Palm. The M100 is targeted at kids. My question is; what in the hell would kids want a Palm for? To store the addresses of their friends? Hmm, when I was in junior high, I didn't need an electronic organizer for that. If I wanted to talk to my friends, I did it in person, or I called them on phone. In my opinion, the Cybiko is a far more compelling device than the Palm M100 or the Visor Solo. In fact, it's even cheaper ($129). After all, when do kids mail letters to their friends through snail mail? We have email for that.

quote:
Leaving aside the fact that those are lazy paraphrases and not verbatim quotes, they do have merit in the context of Palm OS devices. Broadly speaking, PDAs come in two types: tools and toys. For those wishing to be entertained with ebooks, MP3, movie clips, the PPC is the way to go. For those needing a device to hold to-do lists, appointments, notes and contacts -- color, higher resolution and audio remain luxuries.

Yep, I was a bit lazy in quoting, but the general idea is the same based on Hawkins responses to audience questions at PC Expo, and the Red Herring interview. Tools and Toys? Oh come on Gameboy, I would expect much more from you of all people. It isn't fair to call a handheld a "toy" simply because it can render MP3 audio. I wouldn't consider the Diamond Rio a "toy", it's an entertainment appliance. It doesn't matter whether we need it or not, it's a convenience device. If your going to be so technical, we really don't "need" handhelds. After all, a $5 paper organizer will perform the same functions without batteries. It's all about convenience, not necessity!

quote:
For those needing a device to hold to-do lists, appointments, notes and contacts -- color, higher resolution and audio remain luxuries.

Yes, but for how long? Even Franklin has managed to best Palm and Handspring with a simple proprietary handheld (ebookman)that offers a higher resolution display (240x200), MP3 playback, Microsoft ClearType formatted ebooks, and built-in PIM functions, all for less than $129 -$200. Check it out: http://www.franklin.com

That seems like a competitive advantage to me. Handspring and Palm continue to preach their aging religious doctrine that you and I don't need to be listening to music or reading books on a handheld device. We'll see how long that can last in the face of competition. Sony plans on releasing such a device next year based on the PalmOS. What will Hawkins say then, that it's just a fluke or market blip?

quote:
The next market to conquer is voice and data communications. When Handspring releases its cell phone module at the end of the year, the Visor will be a no-brainer. Since the module will be CDMA-based, I predict that it will handle voice and data.

Yes, but we aren't there yet. Although I can guarantee you that people will never use a Visor as a hybrid Cell phone/PDA. The form factor is all wrong. In a cell phone we want small devices with a flip-lid voice piece similar to the Motorola StarTac, not a Palm III clone with a Springboard module. Try holding your Visor up to your ear and imagine using it as a cell phone. It doesn't seem like an appealing solution to me. I may as well use my shoe as cell phone while I'm it. Also, how much will this module cost, $350. I don't think that will go over very well. Handspring would be far better off developing an actual Cell phone rather than trying to shoehorn voice capability into the Visor.

quote:
Even Sony is a third party solution for the Palm OS.

Yes, but they are moving in a direction that goes against the "Zen of Palm", namely color and multimedia. If Sony can deliver a compelling product at a compelling price, they could have a winner on their hands.

quote:
The Visor is Handspring's first product. It makes sense for a startup to concentrate on a low-cost, mass market product -- especially when introducing a new technology like the Springboard. At a then-competitive $250, early adopters had nothing lose if the Springboard concept didn't work out, since the Visor was Palm-compatible. Handspring can now focus on releasing innovative products, like the cell phone module, and higher-end Visors -- which is the company's stated intention.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Handspring made the right move by introducing a low cost mass market handheld. But where have they taken that idea? What have they done lately? It has been more than a year since the Visor was launched, and we have very little to show for it. Yes, the Visor has achieved market share, but everything else the Visor was hyped as being was a failure. Springboard modules are still few and far between. And those that have come to market are grossly over-priced and have been total flops! Just look at the Eyemodule. Has anyone actually bought one of these things? Every review I've read has billed the Eyemodule as a good Springboard module, but a horrible digital camera, which is kind the point of using such a device.

quote:
True. The killer apps of wireless internet connectivity are email and instant messaging, not necessarily the web. But PDAs do solve certain interface problems with make today's cell phones ineffective for using the web. With a PDA, you can enter text with a stylus, and you can view larger volumes of data. I tried to send someone a one-sentence email on my cell phone by typing the message on the phone's numeric keypad. It was so painful, I abandoned the email in mid-sentence. People complain (justifiably) about WAP, but the real problem is the numeric keypad. With the advent of the Stowaway, PDAs are a much more attractive messaging platform.

We agree on something.

quote:
A presumptuous "we" indeed. And if you can post messages on a discussion board while reading a novel, you're a better man than I am.

Once again, I was being my usual sarcastic self. I didn't really mean that "we" want to read books while posting messages. I was merely pointing out the users would want the best web experience from their desktop while away from their desktop. Instant messaging, email, instant quotes, streaming audio/video are all conceivable uses of the wireless web. Not simply raw text. No one wants that.

quote:
At least you're not bored.

You can say that again!

Actually, I'm having loads of fun trudging back into the swamp that we call Palm. For example, the Sci-Fi channel has a clever little game called Xenophobe available for download. It's built by one of my favorite Palm developers, Minor Demons (i.e., PortaMonkey, PortaKitty,). I certainly couldn't get that on my Porta PC..err I mean Pocket PC.

__________________
My blog: Pocketfactory

Posted by foo fighter on 09-17-2000 02:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by lennonhead
And just when this was turning into a nice little thread about the potential uses for the Visor, foo fighter posted and the apocalypse was upon us...

Oh come on Lennonhead! I'm just trying to have a little fun. Actually, I've really missed you guys, we got along so splendidly before. Wink..wink, nudge..nudge.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken you are a Mac user. Do you have an pointers for a long time Wintel user about to jump into the Macquarium?

__________________
My blog: Pocketfactory

Posted by Lacutis on 09-17-2000 03:21 AM:

The only two things I can really complain about so far...

Is the lack of being able to run multiple applications at the same time ala windows and proper doc editing ability. Although Megadoc so far has been a LOT better in that area even though thye pulled it, I was one of the lucky ones that downloaded it.

So give me the ability to do 2 or 3 things at once, like download email while I read a webpage, and then ill be in heaven.

Posted by Gameboy70 on 09-17-2000 06:52 PM:

Re: Here we go!

quote:
Originally posted by foo fighter
Listening to Carl Yankowski brag about his company's partnership with Claudia Schiffer is like watching the hag from the Old Navy commercials talk about Technochino Pants! "Our new Technochino Palm M100s are simply to die for!" or "These new Claudia Schiffer Palm Vs are simply MARVELOUS!".

I haven't been interested in Palm since Hawkins left. Every new announcement the company makes has been underwhelming: incorporating SD cards, voice activation, StrongARM, etc. I haven't been wild about most of Palm's new products: the IIIc, the VIIx and the M100. It's the Palm V series, with or without Claudia, that's paying the bills. While the Schiffer endorsement is silly, I suspect that the company's intention was to position the product in non-techie markets: Macy's, Robinsons-May, JC Penny, etc. It's embarrassing, to be sure, but it might have actually been a shrewd business move anyway.

quote:
As I said before, contrary to what the nay Sayers may claim, it is in fact a very natural function to be able to plug a set of stereo headphones into your handheld and listen to your favorite music. I understand your argument about hogging system resources, but that isn't "our" problem. This is simply a challenge that handheld device makers are, or will be, faced with.

On the surface, it may not seem like "our" problem. But understanding conservation of resources relative to the current state of the art is why Hawkins' design philosphy actually sells products, while pundits sit and wonder why "better" technology can't compete. The key is to understand what's essential to integrate and what's better left to third party solutions.

quote:
What really frustrates me is why Palm or Handspring thinks that they don't have to deal with this issue because MP3 audio doesn't belong on a handheld. Bull****! In a competitive market such as this one, it doesn't matter what users need, it only matters what YOU will offer to stay competitive in burgeoning field.

I mentioned this on a separate thread yesterday, but here's a test: make a note of the next 10 people in public you see using PDAs (not excluding PPCs). How many of them were using them to listen to music?

Is being able to listen to music on a PDA a good thing? Absolutely. Are people willing to pay a premium for that ability? Not the market majority. The 80/20 rule still holds: do the top 20% of features (address book, to-do list, etc.) better than anyone else, and you'll satisfy 80% of users. Try to please everyone, and you'll wind up satisfying 4%.

quote:
Do you really think we actually need 1.3GHZ processors? It doesn't matter! This is simply the fruit of competition between AMD and Intel.

A false analogy. For better or worse, the only thing that most consumers understand in the chip market is speed. You can't market with blurbs like, "Our chip offers lower power consumption!" or "Our chip has a reduced instruction set!" So AMD and Intel compete on a single parameter, however dubious. Notice the skepticism towards Transmeta, a company trying to get people to think out of that box.

quote:
The same is true of handhelds. It doesn't matter what Palm or Handspring "thinks" end users "need" in a handheld. It only matters that Microsoft is offering something they are not!

You're right: it doesn't matter what Palm or Handspring think end users need in a handheld; only what's affirmed by the marketplace. When PPCs get a market share considerably more substantial than 4%, what MS has to offer may actually matter.

quote:
It's time for Palm and Handspring to end their classic dog and pony show. Microsoft has released an influential and innovative product. The only question is; what will Palm or Jeffy boy do to respond? I don't see Palm unveiling a "true" ebook reader or offer MP3 capability.

Here we return to the 80/20 rule. You're not wrong. You just fall in the 20% whose needs aren't met by the Palm platform. As far as "true" ebook readers (I presume "true" refers to font rendering), you're the only person I've ever heard raise this demand.

quote:
What have they done? Nothing! Oh wait, I forgot Claudia Schiffer. What "man" will carry around a Claudia Schiffer Palm, they may as well be carrying a Malibu Barbie Palm.

Again, I think Palm is trying to knock off some of the "geek male" image associated with handhelds. I think Palm's using Claudia to market to women, not men.

quote:
The M100 is targeted at kids. My question is; what in the hell would kids want a Palm for? To store the addresses of their friends? Hmm, when I was in junior high, I didn't need an electronic organizer for that. If I wanted to talk to my friends, I did it in person, or I called them on phone.

Perhaps you've missed the numerous threads by high school students on VC. Students of all ages want them for the same reason: to jot down homework assignment, notes (VC member Vinny uses a Stowaway in the classroom), phone numbers (yes, even geeks like me got girls' phone numbers in high school), games and more. I'll wager that when you were in junior high school, electronic organizers weren't mainstream commodities.

quote:
In my opinion, the Cybiko is a far more compelling device than the Palm M100 or the Visor Solo. In fact, it's even cheaper ($129). After all, when do kids mail letters to their friends through snail mail? We have email for that.

If kids can break the Catch-22 of having their friends get one. A single Cybiko is worthless. Besides, kids use cell phones as their primary communication device, not Palms or Cybikos.

quote:
It isn't fair to call a handheld a "toy" simply because it can render MP3 audio. I wouldn't consider the Diamond Rio a "toy", it's an entertainment appliance.

Where I come from, "entertainment applicance" = toy. I use the word "toy" in the non-pejorative sense. Just because I take the Playstation seriously doesn't mean it's not a toy. Ditto for the Rio.

quote:
It doesn't matter whether we need it or not, it's a convenience device. If your going to be so technical, we really don't "need" handhelds. After all, a $5 paper organizer will perform the same functions without batteries.

I draw a much sharper distinction between entertainment and convenience than you do. A word processor is more convenient than a typewriter, but it's not designed for entertainment.

quote:
For those needing a device to hold to-do lists, appointments, notes and contacts -- color, higher resolution and audio remain luxuries.

Yes, but for how long? Even Franklin has managed to best Palm and Handspring with a simple proprietary handheld (ebookman)that offers a higher resolution display (240x200), MP3 playback, Microsoft ClearType formatted ebooks, and built-in PIM functions, all for less than $129 -$200. Check it out: http://www.franklin.com

Wake me when they sell.

quote:
That seems like a competitive advantage to me. Handspring and Palm continue to preach their aging religious doctrine that you and I don't need to be listening to music or reading books on a handheld device....Sony plans on releasing such a device next year based on the PalmOS.

You may recall that a few months ago, Sony said it was going to release a Palm OS handheld this year that was color, multimedia, had wireless access to the internet, and under $200. The Cli� falls a tad short of that feature set. That's what happens when executives, not engineers, promise new products. If Sony can offer what they promised this year next year, I'll be happy.

quote:
Although I can guarantee you that people will never use a Visor as a hybrid Cell phone/PDA. The form factor is all wrong....Try holding your Visor up to your ear and imagine using it as a cell phone. It doesn't seem like an appealing solution to me....Also, how much will this module cost, $350....Handspring would be far better off developing an actual Cell phone rather than trying to shoehorn voice capability into the Visor.

I have tried it, and didn't find it nearly as awkard as you suggest. Remember, 10 or 15 years ago, even holding a cell phone up to your head looked awkard or pretentious. The Stowaway doesn't look nearly as cool as my Sony Vaio laptop, but in actual use, it's the Stowaway that has the "Wow factor." Getting back to the phone module, you could also connect a headset. We know nothing about the price.

quote:
Even Sony is a third party solution for the Palm OS.

Yes, but they are moving in a direction that goes against the "Zen of Palm", namely color and multimedia. If Sony can deliver a compelling product at a compelling price, they could have a winner on their hands.

The Zen of Palm is relative to the current state of the art. Four years ago, Palm's didn't have a Springboard slot, IR, USB synching, or even 16-level greyscale. Color and multimedia are good long-term bets. As always, delivering a compelling product at a compelling price is the challenge. Sony failed to meet that challenge this year, but they're at the beginning of the learning curve, so things can only get better.

quote:
It has been more than a year since the Visor was launched, and we have very little to show for it.

Given the fact that even consumer electronics manufacturer is affected by the component shortage, Handspring isn't exactly at a competitive disadvantage. HS remains the only handheld manufacturer to seriously impact Palm's market share.

quote:
Yes, the Visor has achieved market share, but everything else the Visor was hyped as being was a failure. Springboard modules are still few and far between. And those that have come to market are grossly over-priced and have been total flops! Just look at the Eyemodule. Has anyone actually bought one of these things? Every review I've read has billed the Eyemodule as a good Springboard module, but a horrible digital camera, which is kind the point of using such a device.

As mystified as I am by this, no less an authority than Donna Dubinsky said in an interview that the eyemodule is the top selling springboard. Then again, I don't understand AOL's popularity either. The backup module alone justifies my purchase of the Visor.

quote:
I was merely pointing out the users would want the best web experience from their desktop while away from their desktop. Instant messaging, email, instant quotes, streaming audio/video are all conceivable uses of the wireless web. Not simply raw text. No one wants that.

A presumptuous "no one" indeed. All right, raise your hands: How many of you want streaming in your handlheld? I'll pass.

Posted by Dubloseven on 09-18-2000 12:24 AM:

yea, yeah, yeah, whatever

way back in the 80's a guy named bill gates said that 640 kilobytes of memory should be enough for anybody. does this resemble the quote by jeff hawkins saying that 160x160 screen are good enough for anybody? i think it does. i read that quote by bill gates in a section in a book of quotes in the humor section. naturaly, handhelds will eventually be like our desktop pcs, and we have already passed the 640 kb time period. do you actually think that palm and handspring will be able to sell 160x160 black and white screens for long? i dont think so. just look at computer monitors from five or six years ago. Color was just a luxury back then, just like it is now for palms, and now color is what you will get with all monitors you buy, and in a few years people wont even think about buying handhelds with black and white screens and lousy pixel numbers. pocket pc is just a few steps ahead of the game, in my opinion, and handspring and palm are doing great also. i love my visor, but i would have got a pocket pc if i had the money. honestly, who wouldn't want a handheld that could play movies and mp3s and access web pages and have color screens! c`mon, just look at the past. it will all happen eventually, and no one will miss the "good old days" of gray scale games that resembled games from the 1970's, pqm's or what ever the palm 7 handles, and no multimedia capabilities.

[Edited by Dubloseven on 09-17-2000 at 07:27 PM]

Posted by MarkEagle on 09-18-2000 12:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dubloseven
honestly, who wouldn't want a handheld that could play movies and mp3s and access web pages and have color screens!

Build it and they will come...

Most definitely this will happen in the future. I'm not sure the technology (components) in the handheld arena is there yet (remember how long it took laptops to catch the desktop?). But it will come.

Until then, I believe it's a matter of personal preference. I personally don't need any of that in a PDA (though I wouldn't mind having it if the price was right). What I need today is a PIM. To be honest... if I had all the bells and whistles in my handheld, I'd never get any work done

... for now, what I need is a vocational appliance (did I just coin a new phrase here?

). And my Visor does just what I need it to.

__________________

God bless America, my home sweet home...

Posted by Gameboy70 on 09-18-2000 01:40 AM:

Re: yea, yeah, yeah, whatever

quote:
Originally posted by Dubloseven way back in the 80's a guy named bill gates said that 640 kilobytes of memory should be enough for anybody. does this resemble the quote by jeff hawkins saying that 160x160 screen are good enough for anybody? i think it does. i read that quote by bill gates in a section in a book of quotes in the humor section.

Bill's quote is cited frequently, and almost always out of context. I've done it myself. Bill said, "640k ought to be enough for anybody" in response to an interviewer's question about the newly-released IBM PC. In 1983, 640k was a huge amount of memory, as any Commodore-64 owner would've told you. The point is that his statement was valid at the time he said it, and was not a projection of the future. Bill may be a monopolist, but he's not a moron.

quote:
naturaly, handhelds will eventually be like our desktop pcs, and we have already passed the 640 kb time period. do you actually think that palm and handspring will be able to sell 160x160 black and white screens for long?

I would define "long" as the time it takes for hi-res color PDAs to drop below $300. No one is debating the inevitability of better resolution or color, only the time frame and the commercial viability at the present. Everyone says they want color, but fewer than 10% of consumers are buying color PDAs. Over time, as the cost-benefit ratio for manufacturers and consumers becomes more compelling, color PDAs will win out. But not this year.

quote:
just look at computer monitors from five or six years ago. Color was just a luxury back then, just like it is now for palms, and now color is what you will get with all monitors you buy, and in a few years people wont even think about buying handhelds with black and white screens and lousy pixel numbers.

In a few years, you'll be right.

quote:
pocket pc is just a few steps ahead of the game, in my opinion, and handspring and palm are doing great also. i love my visor, but i would have got a pocket pc if i had the money.

That's probably a major factor in most people's decision to get a Palm or Handspring device. I was going to get a Casio WinCE model a couple of years ago. The price made me think twice. But more importantly, I tried it and hated the interface

quote:
honestly, who wouldn't want a handheld that could play movies and mp3s and access web pages and have color screens! c`mon, just look at the past. it will all happen eventually, and no one will miss the "good old days" of gray scale games that resembled games from the 1970's, pqm's or what ever the palm 7 handles, and no multimedia capabilities.

It will all happen eventually. It's a shame we can't live in the future.

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